I own a 1981 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz, with “74,000†Miles, I recently notice a few issues with my car while changing a few interior bulbs that have led me to want to do a car fax on the car. I plugged in my vin number online and it says I have 19 records available, could anyone recommend the best website to access these records, Carfax cost $100 where autocheck.com is $50.
Thanks,
Anthony
Isn't a single CarFax report $39.99?
What about the interior lamps is prompting the inquiry?
Carfax records can be anything from oil changes, emissions testing, State Safety inspection, etc. Even when the dealer does a repair it isn't always specific. Some entries are detailed, others just say "serviced". Also as for older cars, keep in mind there will be zero entries recorded before Carfax existed. So don't expect much from Carfax on an 81.
If you have any idea where the car was serviced before you may have better luck taking the VIN to the dealers service dept and running it for any history.
Well, does a single report mean I access all the records? And Carfax shows 14 records where as autocheck shows 19. The lens for “information center†has been crooked since I got the car, and recently the bulb for the cruise control went out, so went i went to change the bulb, all the screws for the speedometer are missing.......
I bought the car a year ago, off craigslist. It’s from Florida. I live in New Jersey
A single report will include all records pertaining to the car.
So should I go with carfax or autocheck? And that being said is there anywhere else i should go?
Go with AutoCheck then.
Tony for an 81 only showing 14-19 records there is a very good chance that all that will come up is state inspections and registration renewals because each counts as a record. For example if I pull up my 05 STS Which I purchased new, I get like 68 records (service and registration renewals). Records on both sites are spotty for pre 2000 cars. The best option is if you have a dealer you know well ask them to run a report as a courtesy it will save you $40. Lynn
went with autocheck, found out that there was a potential rollover on the milage in 1999. The car had 47k miles in 1990, and 164k miles in 1999, then it was bought in 2012 with 64k miles. the car was in an accident in 1993 in ohio, case #371, Data Source: State Agency. Is there any way i can look up that case number to find the full report?
So you have a mileage roll back which is a Federal offense for starters, How long have you had this car? If you were to register this car in the state that the car experienced the odometer roll back you may have had issues with the reg. In NYS, for sure! Any recourse with the seller? The next car run the Carfax first, obviously. Try my contacting Ohio DMV, ask for a copy of the report, tell them you suspect a fraud was committed when you purchased the car, worth a try.
I have had this car for a little over a year, I bought It online, from a guy in florida. based off the carfax and the autocheck, the car has had 4 owners and has lived in 4 different states. I can send pictures of the report if anyone is interested!
heres a photo of the report
I doubt someone drove a 13 year old 1981 Eldorado 116,000 miles in 5 years. What probably happened is that someone checked the box "In excess of mechanical limits" when it was registered in Georgia.
Seen it done all the time with older cars with careless title clerks who just assume the odometer rolled over because "a car x years old can't have mileage that low".
Lotta missing mileage intervals, tough to pin down when the rollback occurred. Carfax seems to supply more info, on the ones I have run, of course no Carfax before 1981.
Rollback has not been proven. It is a 5 digit odometer!
Eric, in NY, the dmv uses the exceeds mechanical limits only if the odometer is 5 digits, with 6, the state the mileage.
Agreed, so where did the over 100 k come from, some paper submitted then mistakenly entered by the dmv. I'd say you'd never get to the bottom of this, but it sure looks bad for a future sale.
Quote from: Dave Shepherd on February 19, 2018, 06:57:25 PM
Eric, in NY, the dmv uses the exceeds mechanical limits only if the odometer is 5 digits, with 6, the state the mileage.
All it takes is for a careless title clerk to check the box and there's 100K added to the title. I see this constantly with older cars.
So what can I do? Any recommendations?
Again, agreed, milesge not important though, as the cars overall condition speaks for itself, but tell thst to the next buyer.
also for carfax the info is pretty much the same, only instead of saying 1994 that it had 47k miles it says 1990 it had 40k miles, could it be that the 1994 is also incorrect??
Here’s the carfax
So what should I do....???
You can also go to a Caddy dealer service center, give them your vin, and if any work was done on the car by Cadillac they'll have those records.
Agreed - condition will have to do the talking here. Many buyers understand mileage reporting irregularities that can occur, especially when it comes to older cars. Would it be better if the car didn't have this problem? Absolutely. How much it will harm resale value on an (otherwise presumed clean car - assuming that is the case) - is difficult to answer. To the right buyer, it probably won't make much difference - especially since we are not talking a super high dollar car to begin with.
Again, the best argument is simply that it's EXTREMELY unlikely someone started pounding a then-13 year old Cadillac in Canton Ohio at the rate of over 23,000 miles a year! If this spectacular mileage accumulation took place on a year-round basis in a snow belt state, this car would have been junk 20 years ago. If only driven in favorable weather during that period, the owner would have only 6 - 8 months to log that same 23,000 miles - again on a 13 year old car. It simply wouldn't happen. 1,000 times more likely a title clerk slipped up than such a scenario.
If you present the case properly when you go to sell, any reasonable person should accept the explanation. Otherwise I doubt you'll have much success getting this issue corrected which usually requires years of inspection record log books by heaven knows what inspection station(s) - decades ago, in Canton, OH, assuming you know who they were, assuming they're still in business, assuming they retained this documentation- are nil.
I had some raised eyebrows when I registered my 19,700 mile 1991 Seville. It helped when I told them that the dash was digital and went to six figures.
At this late date, you may or may not get any help from your DMV. What you might do is go to the biggest branch around you and ask for the oldest (In years of service) employee there to help you. It is liable to be a very crusty, opinionated older lady that doesn't take .... from anyone. Be very, very polite to her and see if you can get on her good side and interested in your problem.
This happened to me when I sold my '41 to Jeff Hansen. I had forgotten that I couldn't find the right SN and the State Policeman friend who was filling out my out of state papers and I decided to use the #s on the cowl tag as "I'd probably never sell the car anyway." Delaware only takes the "right #s" so Jeff started out for home without the car. I took the stuff I had to the DMV and a lady like I described said that "it'd probably take forever" to straighten out, but leave things with her and she'd see what she could do. We went to have lunch nearby and after we'd eaten, I had thought of another possibility to try and went back to the DMV. I walked in and she was waving a handful of paper with a big smile on her face. She'd gotten on the phone and straightened it out. Called Jeff and he and Rob made a 180 degree turn on I-70 and came back and loaded up the car a few hours later.
Pardons for the repeat of my war story, but the moral of the tale is, "Be patient, don't get upset, and get someone interested in solving your problem at the DMV." (Take a couple of pictures to show how pretty the car is.) These people put up with so many problems every day that when someone actually shows them some respect and asks politely "What can you do to help me?" they just might get interested in being the one who does just that. Good luck.
I don't know for sure, but I think you are chasing the wrong ghost. Unless I missed something, am I correct that only the Carfax and similar reports show it as over 100k? What does your title say?
If your title doesn't say it is over 100k or exceeds mechanical limits, etc then it isn't. Carfax is simply a reporting agency, not the dmv. Their information is incorrect and they need to correct it. Similar to Equifax/Transunion. Contact Carfax and tell them you dispute their records and their inaccuracy hurts the value of your car. See what THEIR dispute process is and go from there.
Jeff
The error appears to have occurred when the car was emissions tested in Georgia. Typical.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons why the speedometer cluster could have been removed from this car, and I agree that there is no way this car went that sort of distance in such a short period of time and is alive to tell the tale.
What interests me more is that the car apparently accrued less than 300 miles in 13 years. Do you have any information on what the car was doing between 1999 and 2012?
No i do not, When I purchased the car, I got it from craigslist last year from Florida, I assumed that it was a Florida car based off the overall damage of the car. She needed a headliner, the leather was a bit dry (not terrible), The dash cracked when I had the windshield resealed. And the car had a bit of rust that needed attention (by fenders). Currently the car is a solid 8 out of 10. I had to get new sun visors because the passenger one sagged. Since i have had the car Ive detailed the car and have made it as nice as I can. This is a 1981 Eldorado Biarritz, Factory sunroof, CB stereo, Digital Dash, Memory Seats, Passenger reclining seat, Cruise, 8-6-4 engine. Ive added original appliance rims, and pinstriped it. The car is Brown with tan interior
Good looking car. Clearly the idiot at the Georgia inspection station saw 64k and just assumed 164K, then the speedometer cable was disconnected or it just sat for a long time. Nice to know that after its travels it has returned to the land of its birth and is loved.
Jeremy
Quote from: Tonyv_73 on February 19, 2018, 05:53:01 PM
went with autocheck, found out that there was a potential rollover on the milage in 1999. The car had 47k miles in 1990, and 164k miles in 1999, then it was bought in 2012 with 64k miles. the car was in an accident in 1993 in ohio, case #371, Data Source: State Agency. Is there any way i can look up that case number to find the full report?
Look at your numbers and THINK.
47,000 in 1990 - 9 years - possible
164,000 in 1999 -9 more years- again possible but also possible that it had only 64,000 perhaps it was lightly used.
64,000 in 2012 - 13 years - no way, even if it was 64,000 real miles in 1999.
So the odometer mist likely went past 100,000 in the early 2000s. and it wasn't registered properly. Possibly 2 errors here
OR maybe only one error and it has it rolled over twice. :o
Carfax has gotten expensive. It used to be pay $60 or 80 and get up to three in a 30 day period.
Quote from: smokuspollutus on February 22, 2018, 02:00:59 PM
There are plenty of legitimate reasons why the speedometer cluster could have been removed from this car, and I agree that there is no way this car went that sort of distance in such a short period of time and is alive to tell the tale.
What interests me more is that the car apparently accrued less than 300 miles in 13 years. Do you have any information on what the car was doing between 1999 and 2012?
That didn't happen. The car has at least 100,000 more miles that what the odometer says.
Didn't OP mention that all ther speedo screws had been removed sometime prior ??
What is the condition of the steering wheel top area (if it is leather wrapped - if not there's no way to tell), the pedals, carpet, and the front seats? I had a Fleetwood brougham with close to 200,000 miles and the seats still looked pristine. A have one with over 100,000 now and it looks better than my 1968's front seats which only have about 40,000 miles of wear on them.
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on February 22, 2018, 09:43:58 AM
The error appears to have occurred when the car was emissions tested in Georgia. Typical.
That's only one error. There's almost zero probability that car only went 300 miles in 13 years, so it Had to roll over once between 1999 and 2012.
when I got the car it needed a great deal of mechanical work, the radiator had brown water in it, the interior is a solid 7 out of 10, the seats are a little dry but clean and complete, no scratches. The steering wheel is great, but that being said this car was in an accident in 1993, so how extensive was the damage etc. I believe that a few hundred miles went on the car from 1999 to 2012 because the car was dusty and dirty from sitting when i got it. The air vents blew dust out of them every time i used the car for the first month or so when i got it.
According to more detailed history report (first one posted on the previous page), the car traveled 23,000 miles per year from 1994 - 1999- This is extremely unlikely. Not to mention while being registered in a snow belt state.
Second point: When the car was taken to an emissions station (as opposed to a titling agency), the next odometer reading just happens to be slightly higher than that last previously recorded (after an even 100,000 is subtracted). That is quite a coincidence.
Third point: What possible economic motivation could there have possibly been to turn the mileage back on a vehicle which in 1999 was probably worth $3,000 at the absolute maximum? Extremely unlikely event #3.
Therefore, you would have to accept a string of three strong unlikelihoods against the very strong likelihood of an emissions station inspector of assuming the odometer had rolled over because of the age of the car.
Heaven knows why at this point why dash screws have gone missing - as there are any number of reasons why a repair was needed that would've required removal (or partial) removal of dash and/or any number of components within.
I submit the dash screws are a red herring in this picture.
I think the odometer time limit is 10 years for the feds, so that car is long over anyone caring about the mileage legal requirement.
If you like the car and it runs and drives fine, I would not worry about it. You could spend a lot of time and effort attempting to track down info & history and in the end, it won't matter. It's a 37 year old $3500 car.
My 2 cents
David
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on February 23, 2018, 11:18:51 AM
I think the odometer time limit is 10 years for the feds, so that car is long over anyone caring about the mileage legal requirement.
If you like the car and it runs and drives fine, I would not worry about it. You could spend a lot of time and effort attempting to track down info & history and in the end, it won't matter. It's a 37 year old $3500 car.
My 2 cents
David
Not a $3500 car...
Quote from: Tonyv_73 on February 23, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
Not a $3500 car...
I agree you have a solid $6000.00 car! I love these eldo.
Quote from: Tonyv_73 on February 23, 2018, 09:49:34 AM
when I got the car it needed a great deal of mechanical work, the radiator had brown water in it, the interior is a solid 7 out of 10, the seats are a little dry but clean and complete, no scratches. The steering wheel is great, but that being said this car was in an accident in 1993, so how extensive was the damage etc. I believe that a few hundred miles went on the car from 1999 to 2012 because the car was dusty and dirty from sitting when i got it. The air vents blew dust out of them every time i used the car for the first month or so when i got it.
A car can get all dusty from sitting for only a few months. There's no way it went only 300 miles in 13 year. The engine would have been full of Sludge, EVERY brake line would be leaking, the transmission seals would have let half the ATF out, etc.
No, it wrapped between 1999 and 2012.
Eric is also correct in that there was most likely a recording error in Georgia when it was entered as 64,000 miles back in the 90s. That error is independent of the wrapping that occurred between 1999 and 2012.
However, there are a Lot of "snowbirds" in OH that drive to FL for the winter every year. That could account for the mileage, in a snow belt state of registration, but probably not.
You didn't state if the steering wheel is leather wrapped or not. If it wasn't, they never show wear. What about the carpets and the pedals?
Quote from: David King (kz78hy) on February 23, 2018, 11:18:51 AM
I think the odometer time limit is 10 years for the feds, so that car is long over anyone caring about the mileage legal requirement.
If you like the car and it runs and drives fine, I would not worry about it. You could spend a lot of time and effort attempting to track down info & history and in the end, it won't matter. It's a 37 year old $3500 car.
My 2 cents
David
Many states have more stringent requirements.
Quote from: sding on February 23, 2018, 01:33:25 PM
I agree you have a solid $6000.00 car! I love these eldo.
The OP's car is not a convertible
There are too many variables in the usual ways to detect “true†mileage. Brake pedal/seat/steering wheel/carpet wear, stone chips, burnt out bulbs, radio knobs, etc. are all dependent on who used the car and where they used it, not necessarily how far it was driven. They’ll make the distinction between 100,001 miles versus 1, but isn’t worth much outside of tire kicking.We have two scenarios,
1. The car sat (I would assume 13 years of sitting would have came up while talking to the seller, though I doubt it would be such a mechanical mess as a result) and had a shoddy repair performed at some point in it’s life; be it cable replacement, bulb replacement, digital display servicing, or on something else in the dashboard that required the cluster be disturbed.
2. The car didn’t sit, and the cable broke, someone tampered the odometer, or replaced the cluster. If they were careless enough to leave the screws out in re-assembling, I think you’ll be able to tell pretty easily whether or not the cluster was opened, or the cable replaced. If the cluster itself was replaced, a 1981 digital speedometer is a one year only item; fat display segments with no digital MPH/KMPH indicator. Were they careful enough to track that down, Ferris Bueller the mileage to close enough to where it was last reported, and forget to screw it in?
This is not a question that can be answered from an armchair. But, we know you have seen, driven, and inspected the car 100% more than anyone here and feel that it could have sat between 1999-2012. Coupled with no evidence of inspection/registration in that period, I would believe it did just that, and there’s nothing here outside of a reporting flub in 1999. Now, if you remove the cluster and find every screw holding it together stripped and greasy fingerprints on the inside…well, that’s a different story!
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on February 23, 2018, 09:24:01 PM
There's no way it went only 300 miles in 13 year. The engine would have been full of Sludge, EVERY brake line would be leaking, the transmission seals would have let half the ATF out, etc.
Not correct on the sludge issue. Sludge does not appear out of nowhere simply by a car sitting dormant - even for prolonged periods of time. In fact, I recently saw a car that had been sitting in a non-climate controlled building for 45 years - no sludge.
Cases of prolonged disuse are not that uncommon in older cars either, such as when an owner becomes incapacitated, ill etc but nevertheless will hold onto the car until some point where a decision has to be made.
In the case of the '81 Eldorado here, I freely acknowledge that nobody can really know with absolute certainty what the mileage is - which is pretty much the case of almost any car- at least in theory.
The only point I am attempting to establish is that there is nothing in the vehicle's history report that affirmatively proves the mileage has indeed been tampered with either.
As David King noted above, none of this will really matter in the end. The car is what it is.
Quote from: Tonyv_73 on February 19, 2018, 04:41:28 PM
Well, does a single report mean I access all the records? And Carfax shows 14 records where as autocheck shows 19. The lens for “information center†has been crooked since I got the car, and recently the bulb for the cruise control went out, so went i went to change the bulb, all the screws for the speedometer are missing.......
Perhaps someone Added the digital dash at some point... Who knows. I still do not think it sat for 13 years with only 300 miles. How were the tires? did they rool perfectly, or were they all flat spotted when you first got it?
By the way, FL has no annual inspections so while it was in FL there would have been no carfax or autocheck picked up "records". That's why there is nothing in either report. I've been here over 20 years and none of my cars ever kicked out a carfax "event" other than first titling them.