For 2 days, I got a '57 Brougham transmission to overhaul; it's the fourth Hydramatic transmission for this year! The car belongs to a former member from the defunct Eldorado forum.
I'm showing some pictures after the main elements were removed from the case. It seems that this transmission was never overhauled before; the color from the aluminum parts (and others) proves it. The transmission had a strange shifting behavior; when the cover from the front unit coupling was removed, the seals were hard like glass. The frictions are pitted, a bushing is to be replaced, but for the moment, I saw no major failure. If there is some interest for that topic, I will continue it as the cleaning/assembly begin.
Edit: sorry, there is a picture which does not belong to that, but I don't know how to remove it. Bruce maybe?
Done.
Bruce. >:D
Thanks Bruce! My 1:12 scale Mark II model definitively does not belong to a Cadillac forum!
Hello Roger,
Do you know how many miles are on the transmission? I would be interested in seeing photos of what you found that was damaged or worn.
Christopher Winter
If the info I have are correct, the car has about 40 to 45'000 miles only. The steel plates in the transmission are in a very good condition, the frictions are bad probably because the first oil replacement was done 3 years ago...
As there is interest (also from another forum), I will document as good as I can during the overhauling.
Roger,
I for one would be very appreciative if you would continue posting pictures with narrative as you rebuild this trans..
Have fun,
Steve B.
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on July 08, 2018, 05:54:57 PM
Roger,
I for one would be very appreciative if you would continue posting pictures with narrative as you rebuild this trans..
Me too.
Thanks! I will do. You must know that there are some differences between all those years; the main one is that the rear oil pump was used from 1956 to 1958. Consequently, the reverse clutch was modified on later transmissions, but the principe in all those tranies is the same.
Now, the "fun" begins with the cleaning of the case. Fortunately, I have a cleaning machine, it makes the life easier. The case (picture 11) is now ready with the assembled parking brake system.
Then, I pulled the front unit cover with the special puller. On the picture 12, both exhaust valves are already removed. You can see at the pictures 13 & 14 the remains of one seal, hard like glass. No wonder that the shifting was questionable.
The front unit coupling has 4 seal rings, pictures 15, 16 & 17. On all transmissions I overhauled, this one has the less marking on the driving torus, picture 18. It could be that the man welding that part fell asleep, have a look at one of the vanes.
The picture 19 is showing the undamaged coupling cover compared to another cover I have, picture 20. I saw worse on some transmissions...
After all is cleaned, I put both new thin rubber seals, one new internal seal ring and I installed the cover; this is the job which is the most critical as one or both rubber seals can be get damaged during installation. Once the snap ring retaining the cover is installed, I tested the assembly with compressed air at a rather low pressure, with the help of a oil pump cover. If the job is correct, the cover is almost jumping out, picture 21.
I'm now cleaning the reverse drive flange, with its selective thrust washer, picture 22. As I noticed no unusual play before removing all parts, I let this spacer. I'm using vaseline to avoid that the washer get dislodged during the next few operations.
I cleaned also the rear unit drum and the output shaft and I assembled those parts, picture 23. To avoid that the washer get dislodged, a special tool can be used too, picture 24.
The assembly is now on the bench with the output shaft down, allowing the installation of the needle bearing. Some transmission oil is added.
To be followed...
Hello Roger,
Do you have a hot tank (completely encloses a part and subjects the part to high pressure heated solvent) or do you have a parts washer (an open tub where solvent is pumped through a brush)?
On youtube, there is a fellow in the Netherlands who rebuilt his '58 Oldsmobile's HydraMatic. the vanes in his front unit coupling were totally destroyed - like a bomb detonated in the coupler. I think it unlikely that the fluid could cause this type of damage.
You have rebuilt several of the controlled coupling HydraMatics. What is your theory as to why these units failed? Too much end play? Inherently flawed design? Poor quality manufacture?
Replacements are expensive - $300 - $400 dollars - so one would like to be sure that something other than the coupler is not going to result in damage to a replacement coupler.
I was looking at the newspapers you had under the various parts. Some were in German, and some were in French. I recall French is your native language. Do you speak German as well as English? Tres bon! Zehr gut!
Christopher Winter
Hi Christopher
Thanks for your comments. I have a parts washer; sure, a hot tank would be more efficient, but I'm not overhauling transmission as a trade! Before I had this parts washer, I cleaned the parts in a large container using thinner as a cleaning agent...
I never had a front unit coupling destroyed like this '58 Olds, but, going to a friend in France, he showed me a coupler destroyed in a similar fashion. I suspect that either a vane broke at the weld or because of fatigue and then it's going fast.
Usually, transmissions coming to me are still working but not so well, usually because the rubber seals are too old; I have seldom major failures. I had some cases where the large snap ring retaining the cover's coupling gets dislodged from his groove and the cover is pushed out toward the oil pump. Another major failure was on a '56 transmission when a tang at the front sprag inner race from the oil pump and/or the engaged tang at the driven torus shaft broke. This was a major flaw and many transmissions were modified to have splines at both parts.
One of the transmission I did this year had a compete destroyed reverse cone and warped neutral clutch discs, like somebody went from R to Low with a lot of power, but the car drove, even if the reverse was not so efficient!.
A transmission I saw in France had broken tangs at the front internal gear. I suppose that the transmission was previously overhauled and a wrong intermediate shaft snap ring was used. That snap ring broke, allowing the driving torus assembly to have too much play. Maybe other factors were also involved because I don't know why the transmission was previously restored.
Yes, my native language is French but I can also read and speak German, but not perfectly. It's really an asset in Switzerland to be able to read/speak a second language and, without English knowledge, I could never had the job as a District service manager for GM US cars.
I had experience with a 1949 hydromatic that had 23,000 miles on it, this fleetwood was a time capsule. Shortly after putting it in service again the transmission was failing. My first thought was a complete fluid change and cleaning valve body. When I removed the pan...the fluid was like Jello. I scooped it out with a spatula.
The pump starved for oil and the pump was toast. A Total rebuild followed.
My ‘GUESS’ was that this fluid was made with original whale oil that was banned in 1973? Moreover , likely the original fluid from 1949, the car certainly represented as such a possibility.
Interesting...I heard about that whale oil, but don't know if the Dexron I was still based on that. The '56 transmission I cited above still had his original transmission oil. It was still liquid but stank like an old engine oil and was very dark.
Off the top of my head, I would be tempted to think that DEXTRON name may have originated with the new mandated fluid of synthetic whale oil?
For those of you who seem to know a great deal about the fluids, were the earlier fluids actually made entirely or partially of whale oil.
If so, why weren't oils of the time used - a question of viscosity.
Please don't tell me I have fallen victim to a "left handed Monkey Wrench" story.
Have fun,
Steve B.
The original Dexron (it's DEXRON, no "T") fluid, like its
predecessor Type-A/Suffix-A, used sperm whale oil as a
friction modifier.
That continued until around 1970 and was stopped for
two reasons (1) the "endangered species act" and (2)
sperm whale oil could not hold up under the higher
temperatures encountered in the newer transmission
designs.
Mike
Usually, I'm working each second day, to spare my old bones! Today was some cleaning and further inspection planned. I began with the rear pump and reverse clutch. What I found was not pleasant: I did not expected to find the seals like new, but those were really out of order. I'm wondering if the reverse was still functioning, picture 26.
By looking at the rear pump body, I saw that one dowel is missing from new! Will GM still honor the warranty? Have a look at the picture 27.
By looking at the piston, there are marks at 2 places, the third hole is not marked at all. The dilemma is now by the owner: search a complete part or install as is?
I just got a call from the owner regarding the missing dowel: as the transmission has about 40'000 miles and no damage could be seen at the rear clutch and associated parts, I will assemble that part again as is.
The next job was the front oil pump. This time, there were no bad surprises, everything is almost as new. The overrun clutch was bad and I had one available. After cleaning, the assembly began with the installation of a new bearing into the pump cover, picture 28. I cleaned also the rotor and vanes, picture 29. Now it's time to assemble the cover; there are 4 bolts and 1 is shorter as the other 3. This short bolt is coming in this position, picture 30. If a longer bolt is installed in this position, say good bye to the pump! Now, the pump is assembled again, picture 31.
By looking at the other parts, I found one bad bushing at the driven torus assembly, picture 32. Of course, this bushing will be replaced; this is now the next task: order the seals, clutches and gaskets.
Yesterday was a cleaning day, plus some assembly. I began to remove the rear clutch piston by using some special tools and not the ones described in the shop manual, see picture 33. I did plans long ago to build the correct tool but this unusual method is working well...
After cleaning and putting 2 new rubber seal, the rear clutch piston assembly is ready, pic 34.
I did the same for the central bearing support; this one does not require a special tool. Then, I began the cleaning of the valve body. 1956 and 1957 transmissions have a tiny ball, it's wise not to loose it.
As you can see, the valve body is dirty, pic 35; you can see the ball on picture 36. After 2 or 3 hours, the valve body is ready (pic 37); all valves are free in their bores and I did not loose the ball!
I noticed that there were changes in the coupling valve body, compared to the shop manual: there is no spring for the overrun clutch valve and only one spring for the coupling valve. Those changes are not documented in the various service bulletins. Usually futile things are described in length, but important changes are not mentioned. Strange.
Nothing fancy to report: today was cleaning day. That brown crust from the old oil is difficult to remove; I did as good as I can. The side levers were assembled; I'm now waiting for the ordered parts.
The pictures are showing the parts which are ready to assemble and the side levers.
As the parts from Dave Edwards arrived recently, I could begin yesterday with the assembly. But first, I cleaned a bunch of parts and I did a mysterious discovery: a small hole drilled into the breather tube, pictures 41 & 42. As this transmission was never overhauled, I can see that the holes were done before the paint. Why? Mystery!
When the steel clutch discs are good, I'm using them again. On those transmissions, the plates for the rear clutch are not flat but have a wave pattern. To have a consistent gear change, the plates must be aligned like shown on the picture 43. I used to see "overhauled" transmissions with plated installed incorrectly. Since some years, when the steel plates for the rear clutch are ordered, they are perfectly flat, one reason more to use the old ones if they are good.
The picture 44 is showing the competed clutch pack. On top of that the rear clutch piston assembly is coming. Once this assembly is in place, the drum for the neutral clutch can be installed as well as the clutch discs. For this clutch pack, the metal ones are flat; the picture 45 is showing how the whole is looking. Of course, each disc is oiled with transmission fluid before installation.
It's now the turn for the center bearing support. To be able to assemble the whole unit into the transmission, a special tool is needed to compress the neutral clutch and avoid that the various thrust washers are getting out of place. Now the whole unit (picture 46) is ready to be installed into the case. Boy, it's heavy!
The clutches and shafts are now placed horizontally (picture 47) and can be placed into the case. The shop manual is well explaining that the center bearing support must be aligned correctly compared to the slot from the neutral clutch case.
You can see on the picture 48 that the unit is in place. Will I have to take it out again due to a problem as I did for almost all transmissions I overhauled?
There is a lubrication hole on the output shaft, picture 49. This hole must be aligned with the one from the reverse carrier assembly, picture 50. The other parts are installed without problem; now, the rear of the transmission is ready, picture 51. Now, it's time to check the function of the various clutch's pistons with compressed air, picture 52.
As the test with compressed air was OK, I can install the front oil pump. This is always a gamble: if not entered straight, it gets cocked in the bore and/or the thrust washer at the back gets dislodged. This time, it went in place the first time! (pic. 53)
Once the bolts from the oil pump torqued correctly, the front unit coupling can be installed. Sometimes it will not go in place easily, sometimes it does it without problem. I assume that the steel seal rings are the cause.
Now, it's time to check the front unit end play with the special tool J-6282 and the associated spacer #1, picture 54. In this case, the original selective spacer is flush at the tool, I can use it again.
Once this test done, I can assemble the valve body, taking care that all the attaching screws are tight, picture 55.
As the owner had fun to begin the disassembly with me, I'm keeping the front parts to be assembled with him when he will come in about 10 days. Due to a bad planning from me, I forgot to let check the cooler assembly. It should be ready early next week.
Hello Roger,
Nice work. Of the controlled coupling transmissions you have rebuilt, did this unit give you the least trouble?
When it is fully assembled, I imagine it will weigh more than 100 kilograms. Will the owner help you lift it into the owner's car for transport, or do you have a shop crane?
I noticed that some of the tools needed for working on the transmission were fabricated by you, and some tools are the original Kent-Moore tools. In the case of the end-play tool, do you think that can be fabricated easily?
Christopher Winter
Hi Christopher
Thanks for your comments. Yes, this unit could be assembled without trouble, compared to the 3 others I did earlier this year. As I had for 2 years no transmission to overhaul, I did forget some specificities like the assembly of the rear pump with the ball bearing which is sometimes a pain to assemble on the output shaft. Apparently, the lessons learned from the 3 others were useful this time!
As I have a scales in the "garage", I will use it to determine the weight (never thought to do that before); I assume it's about 100 kg. The owner will help to some extend; from the table to the trunk of his car, I will use a shop crane. I unloaded the transmission that way.
Yes, I have some home made tools; I fabricated first the end-play tool with brass and came later across the original one. I sold my brass tool to somebody in the Netherlands. If needed, I can give you the dimensions and do some from near. You will need a spacer #1; Dave Edwards has them.
Hello Roger,
That would be great if you can send me the dimensions of the brass end play tool you fabricated. Others may be interested, so you can post here or send me a PM. Thanks.
I will contact Dave as needed.
Christopher Winter
I will do that the next few days!
Yesterday was the final assembly, together with the owner. to my dismay, I forgot to take pictures except when all was ready! Anyway, the remaining work is well described in the shop manual. And Christopher, I forgot also the weigh the transmission! I remember at that once the transmission was placed into the trunk of y car and neither the owner not me were motivated to take it out again, sorry.
Christopher ask me for the dimensions of the tool J-6282. Here they are, but metric as I will never understand how to convert in fractions.
That tool is done in two parts.
The first one has an outside diameter of 56.4mm; the inner diameter is 42.8mm. The length is 50.8mm
The second one is not so simple: the outside diameter is 42.7mm, the inner diameter at the ribs is 31.9mm on a distance of about 15 mm. After that, the diameter is 33.1 mm; the length is 51.9mm.
The ribs are square and are 1.4 x 1.4 mm.
The inner tube cannot be separated from the outside tube with a short elastic pin. To allow some movement, the inner tube has an hole which is about 15mm in diameter.
When I did mine, the tubes could be separated and I don't remember if I did only 1 or more ribs. I had anyway the same result with the home made and the Kent-Moore tool.
The spacer #1 has an outside diameter of 48.2mm, the inner one is 43.2mm.It is 1.78mm thick.