After having received help on several matters i thought it would be appropriate to introduce myself and my project.
Having had a Sedan De ville for some years I decided it was time to start going "topless"...after scanning the net for some months i found something i thought i could work with and also afford. Got it on eBay from "cadcliff" who does not seem to be unknown to Cad aficionados. It is pretty solid and straight but had an engine transplant long ago to an Old 350 with 400 tranny. It also had been pulled loose from apparently having been sunk in sand and dirt, and the guy who did that had connected the hook in all the wrong places, so many part in the front end has been straightened or replaced, also a lot of bits and pieces are missing so the hunt is on for that. Thanks to Chuck on this forum i have got some good stuff for it. The car arrived in Sweden in the beginning of June. Got the Olds motor and Tranny running in a couple of weeks and was lucky enough to find a buyer immediately. Bought a 365 engine and trans from Alberts Used autoparts in New Jersey, Seized engine. Straightened out the Radiator support, new right side upper and lower control arms, all which had been used as connecting points when pulling the car loose. New front brakes. Got the engine in the beginning of august, Diesel in the cylinders and an iron to the flexplate. after a couple of days of tapping and pulling at the iron bar it started to move. Got it gently to turn all the way. Out with the freeze plugs, flush with high pressure, new plugs. Dropped oil pans of engine and tranny, cleaned it and new fluids. Dropped the whole package into the car, no spark. New coil and capacitor. Bingo! would fire with a drop of gas in the manifold. Bolt on Carb and it fires! half an hour of adjustment gave me a good idle. Time to source driveshaft, exhaust, radiator, linkages for throttle and transmission..Phew well all that is in and i have a car that runs around the block. Now i need a break from this and some time to recuperate the bank account so it will be (very illegally) driven to winter storage 30 min away in a few days. Just waiting for the hood to get back from some metallic massageing.
Here comes a few pics of what it looks like after 4 months of TLC.
Thanks for all the support so far and no doubt I'll be asking for more ...
Quote from: Bronze on October 09, 2018, 07:47:54 AM
hmm, can't post pics. after i press "post" page uppdates vto a blank page and nothing happens. any advice?
Your files are too big try reducing the size around or below the 1Mg or reducing the size of pixels per inch of they are HD.
Pictures should be no problem by keeping them at the 1Mg however scan copies are different if they are scan at a high DPI which the pixels must be reduce down.
Good luck..!
Thanks Jose!
Here comes a glimpse of my project
engine
You bought a lot of work with that convertible! According to the firewall, the car was black from the factory. If you still have the body plate, the paint code will most certainly be the 10.
Good luck!
A lot of work = a lot of fun when it comes to restoring an old Cad, right ? :D
Engine bay has been repainted plate says 12 - 50 Which would be Mandan Red over Canyon Grey which brings up a number of questions in my head:
1, If i google Mandan Reg i se a lot of quite bright red Cads, but the only residue of original paint i have on the car is the windshield frame inside and that red is more kind of burgundy i will try to attach a pic. Does this look like Mandan red to you?
2, If i get it right that means a Canyon gray car except from the small part above the thin chrome trim on top of the doors, but what should be painted red on the inside? It seems to have had a white steering wheel and white lower part of the dashboard.
3 the trim is 28, red and white leather, and i have found residue on the dash of a dark red vinyl, also the lower part of the front seat, below the chrome trim is dark red. Can i be sure that the seats would have been white on the sides with red piped parts?
The car is of course quite a bit away from doing the interior, but as there is no back seat I will need to have one made and then i might just as well do it in the correct colours.
I have not been able to find a good pic of a two tone convertible that shows the interior, If someone can point me in the right direction i would be most grateful.
/Martin
Colour sample, is this Mandan red, white paper for reference
According to the sample I have, your red is the Mandan red. To be honest, I don't understand why there are both paint codes (12-50) which is making no sense. The top code 1 is for Ivory; you probably know it already.
Maybe somebody else will have an explanation.
The trim 28 is for red leather seat and seat back inserts with white leather bolster and trim. In fact, the seat bottom is red, the back rests are red till the middle and then white. Side of the seats is white.
Martin,
The best option is for you to download the ’56 vehicle information which includes the Cadillac Data Book and the specs manual from the GM heritage site. -> https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/vehicle-information-kits.html
For a quick reference you can also take a look at Ralph Messina’s compile records of the color, upholstery and accessories from here. -> http://www.rrrclc.org/the-cadillac-color-upholstery-accessory-database-1940-1979/
If you need additional details such as built sheet, etc. you can request the records from the CLC main site -> https://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/page/VehicleAuth
As for paint color and paint chip the best site would be the historic color library from DuPont (aka Axalta now) here -> http://historicalcolorlibrary.axaltacs.com/hcl/ .Site maybe a bit slow to access, just as FYI.
Good luck..!
Big thanks to you both!
This certainly will help me get a better understanding.
Roger, 12-50 would be a two tone paint, on a car with a roof, that would be 12, on a convertible it's just a small field on top of the doors, that continues into the inside of the car. Correct me if i am wrong.
Jose, i will study the links, and yes i am now a member in the mid century forum also, thanks for the hint :)
/Martin
BTW, drove to the car to winter storage today. 45 minutes drive, so she is now officially a rolling restoration :D
Would you say that the interior of this car is the correct combo of red and white according to my codes?
https://notoriousluxury.com/2014/06/19/1956-cadillac-series-sixty-two-convertible/
The thing that puzzles me is that i have the bottom most parts of the front seat and they have red vinyl on them, not white.
Well...you never can know what happens to a car after so many years...It's my understanding that with the trim code 28, the side of the seats should be white. They would be red with the code 29.
I have no information that a convertible could be have with a two-tone paint; if yes, this would be limited to the upper part of the doors and quarter panel, but not to be continued inside the car.
Great thread! Makes me happy to see the original drive train and appearance return. Maybe I have the chance to see your car someday on a Swedish event.
I have not seen any reference to two-tone paint schemes for convertibles in factory documents. But I do not know enough about '56 to be certain. What is your source, Martin?
Hmm, This is getting interesting!
My "reference" is something i read on the net that i don't seem to be able to find now...Starting to doubt myself as both Roger on this forum and another knowledgeable person on midcentury cadillacs says a 2-tone convertible is a first to them.
However i do have the plate in the car and i do find residue of Red on the top of the doors and the windshield frame still has good red paint on it. Have i bought something unusual ? :) I guess i really should get the build sheet.
Roger, regarding the paint, that is what i have. Top of doors and the part of the quarter panels that are above the thin chrome trim has residue of Red. but also the windshield frame, but that makes sense does it not. This is the parts that would have the top paint on a car with a roof ? The red windshield frame pain is in good condition as it has been covered with chrome trim, but the parts of the windshield frame that is not chrome trimmed would have shown red and not white paint.
Quote from: Bronze on October 11, 2018, 03:44:56 PM
Hmm, This is getting interesting!
My "reference" is something i read on the net that i don't seem to be able to find now...Starting to doubt myself as both Roger on this forum and another knowledgeable person on midcentury cadillacs says a 2-tone convertible is a first to them.
However i do have the plate in the car and i do find residue of Red on the top of the doors and the windshield frame still has good red paint on it. Have i bought something unusual ? :) I guess i really should get the build sheet.
??? Well “very interesting..!â€, the ’56 color chart does not show an option under lower code 12 for upper color 50, but is does if the lower color is 50 the upper is 12 is available. :o
Yes you are correct the “built sheet†should be a must in this case, although it may show the same as your id tag, so you could be in the mystery loop..! ;)
Ok, will order the build sheet today.
As you see in the picture there is something strange with the rivets on the plate. Starting to worry that the plate have been changed or altered at some point in time.
I don't believe that the body plate was modified; those rivets are not looking strange for me. Have a look at the plate my '56 de Ville had.
Did you find some gray paint on the lower body of your car?
Hi again,
Here is the build sheet, not sure it adds much more to the body tag info.
Things i don't fully understand is "posture seat", "Basic G B", "Equipment Group" and "opt GR ratio.
And i se no mention of special order, regarding the color combo..
Your project car shows so much promise... do you have any pictures of it stuck in the mud? It appears to have been abandoned "relatively" recently as the body appears to be in reasonable condition. Do you have any history to share with us prior to your purchase? Happy day, James
To assist in your rebuild project I strongly recommend that you purchase the CLC Authenticity Manual, for 1954 - 1956 Cadillacs. It is available from the Club on their home page. Click on the link below. Clay/Lexi
https://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/store/ViewProduct.aspx?ID=7782525
Quote from: Bronze on October 17, 2018, 04:17:37 AM
Hi again,
Here is the build sheet, not sure it adds much more to the body tag info.
Things i don't fully understand is "posture seat", "Basic G B", "Equipment Group" and "opt GR ratio.
And i se no mention of special order, regarding the color combo..
Martin,
Well it is official both match your id tag and built sheet shows it is a two tone convertible, lower 12 and roof (in your case just the upper section of the windshield) 50.
The posture seat aka two-way seat electric adjustment for convertibles.
Your id ACC shows came with EHY, E=E-Z Eye Glass, H=Heather and Y=Tilt seat adjuster (which matches the built sheet).
The “Equipment group†shows what other factory install accessories that could be added/install equipment group “3â€;
U Autronic Eye
F Fog Lamps
D Dor-Guards
The “2†represent the type of license plates frames size.
If any of these are added by the factory they would also be shown under the plate ACC and the built sheet options.
The optional gear ratio list to show that it came with the 3.36-1 as an optional for your model.
If you download the ’56 file from the GM Heritage site it should have the brake down under the “The new card specs manual†section.
HTH
Hi all and thanks for all replies and comments.
I have no "barn find pics" got it from eBay from "cadcliff" who seems to hunt down cadillac projects more or less for a living. So all i ever sav was his ebay pictures and they are similar to what you see now.
Body is very solid I took down the gas tank yesterday as the transportation company had punched 2 holes in it to make sure it was empty (Idiots, as it has a plug...) and the tank is still shiny metal all around when the rust protection is removed.
Authenticity Manual is definitely on the shopping list, but please understand that in the near future the goal is
A; functionality (weld tank, change one head gasket, brakes service, rebuild carb, all electrical stuff etc basically make it a roadworthy driver.
B; source a lot of missing items, it has no heating system, back seat, interior and some other bits and pieces.
C, make it look good, Paint, upholstery etc.
So Authenticity details comes pretty far down on the list right now :)
Jose, Thanks so much for the explanations, i have downloaded the file but have not found the time to go through it all yet (I have 2 small kids that seems to take some precedence over hobby cars :) )
The fog lights option makes me especially happy as they are not on the car today, but i think they look much better and now i have a good reason to chase down a pair!
Hmm, i think i misunderstood the "Group 3" comment,
Are you saying that the 3 says that U F D could have been installed but as they are not on the plate or the sheet, they would not have been there?
Martin,
It is my understanding; ???
“Equipment Group†column if it shows a number the items under that group can be available to be added at the dealer (I believe). If it was order with them from the manufacture there would no number at that box and the option would be listed under each option column(s).
“Basic Group†column would be the items that would show in the id tag under ACC which came from the manufacture plus the ones listed under each column as optional.
So if you had those it may show similar to the attach file.
Now I could be wrong in my interpretation of these codes, maybe someone can chime in with the corrections. ;)
Hell “the boss†she tells me I’m wrong 99.99% of the time..! ;D
José, I have not yet read a post where you were wrong,, so that is why i feel a bit silly for debating this topic with you ..
But ok, Basic group A: And plate says EHY:
E-Z glass, correlates; Heater, Correlates ;
Whitewalls in the A group but not on the plate. Reasonable as they are not permanent.
Radio in A group but not on plate, Was it so common that it would not be on the plate?
Moving to Equipment group 3 of which none were added at factory in your understanding:
No fog lamps, no dor-guards (would be lost anyway), But i have holes for the Autronic eye Control box in the inner fender!
And in your logic that autronic eye was then added at dealer right?
This makes sense if my guess about the radio is correct.
What is your verdict? :)
Martin,
Not all of the included accessories/options were stamped at the ID tag e.g. white wall tires, antifreeze, radio, etc., which is why the built sheet is essential to get all the details that came with the car from the manufacture and to validate if others were included and/or added as optional.
In my case my 62-sedan has E-H-K2-V-S-X stamped which includes the basic group “C†and the optional. The built sheet shows the basic group “C†includes K2-W-H-R-E and the optional S-V-X-U-F-D.
So you can see some are stamped on the ID tag while others are not.
If the option for Autronic-Eye was available but not install at the factory it would be logical the inner fender would have the holes ready if the option was added later at the dealer. ??? However not sure anyone can go 62 years back to validate this logic. ;)
It is interesting the red is an accent color for the car. White top, red band around the belt line and white below on the rest of the body. That will be a very striking car when done if you choose to restore it that way.
That is definitely the way i am heading eventually. May be, that it will get a quick pink spray job next year just so i can drive around one summer playing:
"I love you for your pink Cadillac
Crushed velvet seats
Riding in the back, oozing down the street
Waving to the girls, peeling out of sight
Spending all my money on a Saturday night
Honey, I just wonder what you do
There in the back of your pink Cadillac
Pink Cadillac"
8)
Hello,
I have restored two 56 Coupe deVillies and a 56 Series 62 convertible. All three, from the factory, had the Alpine White paint above the thine chrome strip along the top of the doors and along the top of the fender below the quarter side windows.
I don't envy you this project. My 56 convertible was a frame off restoration. You will find the 56 is a very enjoyable car to drive once you get her finished. All of mine ran best between 70 & 80 mph and saw thousands of miles of use.
I currently own a 56 Eldorado Seville. Alas, I am trying to teach my wife to drive her as I can no longer see past the hood.
Good luck.
Larry lblanchard6@cox.net
Martin,
You are close to the answer. You just need to talk the right person The Mid Century webmaster, Lou Commisso, wrote extensively about this “two-tone†confusion. I suggest you join that board and address a post to him. He’s very knowledgeable and helpful. As best I remember, the second number, 50 â€" Mandan Red, refers to the painted surfaces in the interior. Your data plate and build sheet indicate the car was born paint code 12-Canyon Gray, top 1-Ivory, with trim code 28- red & white leather interior. Only the pleated portions of the seat and recessed areas of the seat back are red. The sides, upper and the lower skirts on the seats are white. The upper part of the doors and rear quarter are white. The armrest and below to the carpet is red. The dash top is dark red/maroon. I believe the metal portion of the dash is code 50, Mandan red………which Lou can confirm or correct.
HTH
Ralph
Larry and Ralph, thanks for the tips and encouragement :)
In regards to asking Lou, see this link :midcenturycadillacs.com/index.php?topic=4123.0
Is that the post you refer to Larry or is there more to be read from Lou? He wrote to me "two-tone convertible, that's a first"...
BR
/Martin
I don't think I was refering to any links or posts, just saying all three of my 56s had the Alpine White paint as described. I might add all three cars were original paint.
Can't wait to see your car finished.
When I lived in Georgia for 3 years I met a member there that had a 1956 Series 62 Convertible that he had known since the day the original owner bought it and he bought it from his widow in 1973. The car was factory original and was yellow with white on the top of the doors.