Looking for a good running engine. Rebuilt or not as long as it is in good running condition. Going into a 37 LaSalle. My interchange manual shows that a 37 or 38 LaSalle or 37 ,38 Cadillac V8 will interchange. I know there are some differences to the Cadillac vs the LaSalle, but are there any issues with mating them to a 37? Since this won't be an original engine I'm not terribly concerned if it is a LaSalle or Cad. I know I would probably need to personally get the engine so I am hoping to find something not more than a day or two away. I am located near Lafayette, Indiana. Thank you! Paul
Hi Paul, Which way "near" Lafayette? I'm in Flora. Is your Packard the one that originally was owned by the widow of the Packard dealer in Lafayette? (Sorry, I don't have any leads on an engine.)
That would be me. I live in Mulberry but I am through Flora quite a bit.
Shambaugh was the name. (I had to finally look it up on the Web. She always supported the Lafayette Club a lot.)
Here is a listing for NOS Flathead engines from Hemmings. Looks like one of them is '37 or'38.
https://www.hemmings.com/parts/item/16571.html?refer=news
Harry
Wow!
One of them has an alternator, another an AC compressor.
It would be interesting to know the source. Harry
Quote from: harry s on February 28, 2019, 01:08:40 PM
It would be interesting to know the source. Harry
Very.....
Bobby
What a find. Looks like someone bought bankrupt stock.
Wow. Quite a collection!
That should cover anyone looking for a good engine for years to come, unless he can't find enough buyers and it go's for scrap.
The engines in the photos look very much like they may be the same ones I saw in 1997. If so, be careful what you may be buying. At that time Terry Wenger informed me of a large number of flathead V-8's, each with a water cooled Hydramatic and mounted on steel skids. About fifty appeared brand new, with another 20 showing signs of having been used. Most were in wooden crates and appeared to be WW2 surplus. They were all painted yellow as in some of the photos at the start of this thread, and many had tags indicating electrical components had been either built or rebuilt in Mexico. I believe the electrics were 24 volts. They had no radiators, possibly being intended for stationary use where cooling water would be available. Note that in at least one photo the back of the right side block has two plugs, indicating water cooling ports for a military application Hydramatic transmission, never used in a passenger car.
Terry and I met at the location and were inspecting our find, when the lot owner came by. He intended to sell the engines or scrap them if not sold as is. Terry put an ad in Hemmings to try to find a home for the engines, knowing many persons could make good use of them. A Tennessee man bought the entire lot, being a knowledgeable old Cadillac person, intending to resell them as the brand new engines that most of them actually were.
Some years later a friend opened for inspection one of the new engines before installing it in a car, and found the camshaft and lifters were definitely not new. The belief was that the Tennessee man swapped some internal parts, so that is why I think any buyer should proceed with care. The link in the first post on this subject shows a 416 area code, which is in Canada, so these engines may or may not be the same ones we found and subsequently went to the Tennessee man.
Quote from: Bob Schuman on March 01, 2019, 02:27:50 PM
So that is why I think any buyer should proceed with care....
I am once again AMAZED at how Observant and Knowledgable you guys are. I have a feeling there's more to this story, and I'm sure more people on this Forum know more about this. It's just too difficult to keep a stash like that Hidden without someone knowing what the real deal is.....
Bobby
Has anyone checked into these engines? It is just too good to be true and if true asking price is far less than that of a "quality" overhaul. I think Bob Shuman is probably correct. Most likely they are leftovers from that stash found in Alton Illinois over 20 years ago. It would seem unwise to purchase one of these without a personal inspection. If valid....I would be loading up my American Express.
Bob
If these are military engines, then they may present problems other than mere prior use. While I'm sure there are folks on this forum better informed about Cadillac military engines than I am, I've been hearing for years about rough running (due to cast iron pistons and different cam timing) as well as transmission bolt-up problems with these engines. And at least a few such engines were left-handed -- which would be fine for drivers who want three speeds in reverse and one very low forward gear, not to mention air blowing out of the grille!
Old wifes tale. I have never seen cast iron pistons in the 8 military engine that I have owned or been associated with in some way. They have all been identical as far as the short block is concerned, the Marine engine being the only odd one out because of extra block casting. Car bell housings and flywheels bolt right up with a change of dowels for the manual box. Never have I seen one yet that ran backwards.
No problems regarding the performance of the military tank engine installed in my 1936 Cadillac. Runs real strong and quiet. Most likely had had very little use. Cylinder walls just needed honing and reused the original standard bore pistons. Requires some modification but nothing extreme. Based on my experience, I would have very little hesitation utilizing a military engine that has been carefully taken apart and inspected. KenZ
Quote from: Steve Passmore on March 10, 2019, 08:44:44 AM
Old wifes tale. I have never seen cast iron pistons in the 8 military engine that I have owned or been associated with in some way. They have all been identical as far as the short block is concerned, the Marine engine being the only odd one out because of extra block casting. Car bell housings and flywheels bolt right up with a change of dowels for the manual box. Never have I seen one yet that ran backwards.
No left-hand marinized Cadillac engines? Up until the '70s or so, all marine engines were available in reverse rotation for use in twin-screw installations -- the idea being that counter-rotation cancels out each propeller's "p-factor" and thereby eliminates steering bias or "prop walking." Current practice (presumably to enhance engine standardization) accomplishes left-hand rotation by means of a reverse idler gear in the transmission.
Quote from: holydagmars on March 10, 2019, 10:40:18 PM
No left-hand marinized Cadillac engines? Up until the '70s or so, all marine engines were available in reverse rotation for use in twin-screw installations -- the idea being that counter-rotation cancels out each propeller's "p-factor" and thereby eliminates steering bias or "prop walking." Current practice (presumably to enhance engine standardization) accomplishes left-hand rotation by means of a reverse idler gear in the transmission.
You might well be right. All I said was never have I have seen one yet that ran backwards. Mike Jaggers 1936 convertible has a ex War dept marine engine fitted. These engine are distinguishable from the normal ones.
Hi:
I believe you have my contact info at 812 273-2472. I just bought a good '37 Cadillac engine complete less fan that I am not going to use. I also bought a 500" Cadillac engine and have decided that's what I am installing. I am in Madison, IN, not all that far from Lafayette. I also have a '37 transmission I will be selling at a later date.
Hi guys,
All this discussion on military engines is interesting. Just be a bit careful to recognise that there were a number of "military engines" from Cadillac.
In the early days of WW2 the engines were basically Cadillac car engines modified for military use. Most that I have seen were numbered "3F----" and these are almost all 1941 production engines. A lot of them came to Australia BEFORE the US entered the war after Pearl Harbour in December 1941. I have a 1937 75 series engine block, a 1938 La Salle block and a 1941 "3F" series "military" engine that was probably sent here for the Australian Cruiser Tank programme (abandoned after the US M5 tanks became available in 1942) and, to look at them, apart from an extra flat "rib" cast into the back of the "military" engine, they are almost indistinguishable from each other.
In 1942, serious production of military engines began by Cadillac and these were classified "1G----" and "3G----" engines. I have yet to see one of these "married" up to a car without a LOT of work because they are VERY different from the "3F---" series motors. I think you can see some excellent 3/4 and sectioned views of these engines in the Tank Manual that used to be available on this web site (I can't locate it at present. If someone could point me to its location, that would be good).
I have also heard of 4G---- engines and there was a run of flathead military engines during the early 1950's that, I think, were destined for English "Scout" cars or similar that never progressed very far.
These engines may be all, any or none of these flatheads. I would only really look at a 3F--- series engine for use in cars.
...and even a G5---- series engine. This is, I think, the one that was to go into the UK CPT20 vehicle. For a very good run-down on what engines were produced when and a look at some very interesting photos, try this site:
http://www.m24chaffee.com/cadillac-flathead-v8-engine-data.html
Note that there were, indeed, left and right hand engines but NOT because one of them ran backwards!
John,
Very good and interesting information. My engine is the "1G" version and did require some modification with the drilling of the bell housing alignment dowel pin holes being the most challenging. The tank version has bigger dowel pins located differently than the automobile engines. A good engine machinist is required for the bell housing alignment pin drilling, which is very critical for proper transmission alignment and operation (Learned this the hard way). Shaving some of the block for the starter mounting was also needed. For 1936 (Cadillac only) the front of the engine is mounted utilizing two "L" brackets. The existing front holes (4 each) had to be drilled out for the bigger front mounting bracket studs. Later year cars can utilize the existing brackets on the block. I don't recall anything else but really do not consider this extreme. Had some insight from other CLC members and Steve with this project... KenZ
I now own a 1937 Cadillac engine that was running when removed from the vehicle. The owner reported it ran well and burned a little oil. It is for sale at $850 and will I will crate and ship. Engine is complete less fan. I am at 812 273-2472.