I have been eyeing the market for several years regarding 67-70 Eldorados (I bought a '69 in 2013 off ebay and it had a completely rotten roof under the vinyl -lesson learned - sold it at a loss). I am picking up a '67 slick top this weekend and my question is regarding the different years' issues. I have seen many posts discussing potential drivetrain problems specific to each year - can someone help me figure out how to search the forum for this information? I have searched the model and year and it's not pulling up much...
Thanks,
Joe
#20442
Good call on the slick top. I'd like to find the inventor of the vinyl top and strangle him.
I've never heard much on drivetrain issues for the Eldos and Toros. The TH425, right from the earliest iteration, was overbuilt. Make sure the driveshaft CV joints are in good shape (easily fixed if a boot is ripped).
Collectors seem to prefer the '67, although it had the older 429 engine along with drum brakes. My favorite is the '68 with 472 and front discs. I also like the turn indicators that showed up on the '68. The filler plates on the '67 always looked like afterthoughts to me.
Good luck with the car. I had a '70 and really need to get another of Bill Mitchell's best work.
This may, or may not help, but I had a '67 Toronado that I picked up years ago as a used car for $225. I did have to replace one wheel bearing. Otherwise, no problems with the drive train. Used as a 50 mile round trip work car for some time and then turned it over to my daughter to drive back and forth to school.
As my name implies, I have a '67 Eldo. It *had* rust underneath its vinyl top, but now it is a reborn slick-top. I've spent a fair amount of time researching sixth-gen Eldos (as well as first- and second-gen Toronados), so here are some ideas/observations that will hopefully be helpful.
* The '67 is the best-looking American production car built since WW2. You've chosen wisely. :-) If you're satisfied with your purchase, you should not worry too much about the 68 - 70 models. At the very least, you'll have the coolest taillights.
* On the interior, the '67 employs the last in the line of glorious Cadillac dashboards. They are difficult to work on but are superior to the ever-more padded and plastic dashes that came later. Unless you're quite lucky, you'll probably spot areas of surface rust on the instrument panel, behind the clear plastic lens. That surface rust does not seem to indicate issues deeper than the fact that Cadillac forgot to rustproof those thin, metal panels.
* Parts for the '67's 429 are becoming harder to find. Just in the last year, rebuilt starters, distributors, and windshield-wiper motors have vanished from the lists of many parts remanufacturers. The '67 429 was a one-year-only engine in a few ways. You may want to make friends with a savvy salvage-yard maven or find a good mechanic that restores 60s-vintage Cadillacs (and knows where parts can be found). This board is also a great resource for the odd stuff.
* There are virtually no interchangeable engine parts between the 429 and the later 472/500. Don't count on the owner of a '68 Eldo to be able to help out with engine troubles. Not that you'll have any, of course. :-)
* The story on body parts is quite different than the engine story. Any major body section -- quarter panel, windshield, top, door, etc -- from any sixth-gen car will fit the '67.
* The zinc front-fender filler caps mentioned by a previous poster were last-minute additions when Fisher Body told Cadillac that the Eldo's loooooong front fenders could not be easily stamped and welded in the way that Bill Mitchell & crew intended. Beginning in 1968, Cadillac met the new federal side-visibility requirements by sticking lights up where the original Rolls-like front fender "shoulder" had been intended to go. My '67 has a '68 left-front fender. The body shop that did the work (back in the mists of time) puttied over the fender light to make it match the normal '67 fender on the other side. I'm thinking about making fiberglas fender-cap replacements.
* The THM 425 transmission used in the '67 includes a switch-pitch torque converter. GM dropped the switch-pitch design beginning with the '68 models. Since my car sat in a warehouse for 10 years without begin moved, the soft pieces in the transmission dried out from disuse. I paid $2.5k for a transmission rebuild. I also installed Bruce Coe's switch-pitch controller and a generic kick-down switch to replace the almost unobtainable carb-mounted original transmission-control switch. The 429 has so much torque that the switch pitch doesn't make a dramatic difference, but it is fun to play with.
* Perhaps the most frightening aspect of the '67 (and '68) Eldos are their brakes. I hope the car you're buying has front-disc brakes (as does mine). (The four-wheel drums will get the job done as long as you think way ahead.) The disc brakes on my car were completely overhauled with cleaned calipers, master cylinder, vacuum booster, and all-new brake lines. The brake rotors were turned ... for the last time. There is not enough metal left to turn them again. The problem is that the '67-'68 disc-brake design was not manufactured in great quantities. Therefore the next time I'll need to get the rotors turned, I'll either have to go on a very long (and probably expensive) hunt for usable rotors OR replace the whole steering and front braking system with one pulled from a 70s-vintage Eldorado. Neither option is appealing.
* On the easy side of Eldo maintenance, the '67 came with a single exhaust. Unless you're an originality freak, I strongly suggest you convert it to dual exhaust (like its Toronado brother). I seem to have picked up almost 2 MPG from that mod alone (although the muffler they pulled out looked mighty crappy). It sounds better too, with just a hint of Cadillac V8 burble.
* When adding dual exhaust, the only thing that gets in the way for the addition of a passenger-side dual pipe is the load-leveling sensor on the top of the rear axle. On my car, I removed that sensor because I removed all of the other load-leveling pieces. I replaced the original (non-functioning) air shocks with coil-over spring-boosted rear shocks. That also helped rectify my original weakened single-leaf rear shocks.
* Another easy (sort of) but fruitful refreshment you can perform at your leisure: Replace vacuum lines. The Eldo has (seemingly) hundreds of them. Some that look fine will actually be leaking. The more vacuum leaks you can eliminate, the happier your Quadrajet will be.
* Buy not only the '67 Cadillac Shop manual and the '67 Fisher Body manual, but also the Master Parts books (illustrated and not) that cover (at least) the '67-'70 Eldorados. You can't trust any online catalog when it comes to parts availability so you'll need to be able to describe exactly what you want at great length.
Speaking of "great length," I could go on and on. But I'll stop here. Good luck!
Good luck with the new car. I have always loved these Eldorados and last year finally got my hands on one. Mine is a 70 and it’s a really special one owner car but I think that the 67’s and 68’s are the best looking ones. I’d like to get a 67 or 68 bit space is an issue.
From what I hear front brake parts are hard to come by but I think I have read that you can change the front brakes to the later style discs.
Grab yourself a shop manual from eBay and just start reading it. You will learn quite a bit about the car that way.
All great advice appears above... Having owned, loved, and used my early production '67 from '76 through '85, I will add these cautionary notes. 1. You absolutely NEED the rear air shocks to support the lightly sprung, single leaf rear springs. Your car will ride poorly, bottom out often, and eventually snap the rear springs without the air ride support. There are numerous threads and detailed discussion about "work arounds," as the air compressors for the air shocks had a limited service life and they are difficult to repair, and parts are virtually non-existent. Also, the front wheel bearings on the '67 are one year only, and very expensive. Good luck and keep us posted with plenty of pictures and narratives. James
Good luck and please post pictures.
My former 67Fleetwood Eldorado was fully loaded with the exception of disk brakes and heated seats. I agree 100% that the drums all around were insufficient to timely stop my front end behemoth. When I acquire another 67, I plan on having modern disk brakes all around conversion done.
I also agree the 67 Fleetwood Eldorado is the most beautiful Eldorado ever made by Cadillac and I hope to own one again in the near future. In the interim, I have a 2001 ESC that is currently mothballed.
Again, please post pictures including the body tag.
Regards,
Matt
Thanks, gents, for all the great advice! Yes - the biggest fear of any collector is hearing about hard to find or impossible to find spares. I don't know what brakes are on my car, but I experienced the need for "predictive braking" on my '63 convertible. It would stop on a dime.... as long as you could see that dime from 400 yards out!
I will post pics as soon as I get them. Prepping for a move in 8 weeks so I may be absent with additional ignorant questions for a while... Although I have spent the past 5 years Cadillac-free, things like this forum is one of the reasons I kept up my membership - I appreciate your great responses!
Joe
Hey Joe,
What color is your Fleetwood Eldorado?
Please PM me if you prefer.
Regards,
Matt
It's currently white with a green interior; it was originally green. A lot of you have probably seen the car - it was the white one on ebay in Eden, NY. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Cadillac-Eldorado-/333168659578
I am probably asking for trouble but if anyone with experience on these cars wants to offer an opinion on this car please do (I am a big boy)! I have bought and sold a lot of stuff including a few Cads but i think I will be ok on this one - i intend to hang on to it long term.
Thanks-
Joe
Code 30 Pinecrest Green Metallic with no factory vinyl roof!!!
Good Luck,
Matt CLC#18621
I saw this on eBay and thought it was well bought. Congrats!
As far as the cracked dash pad goes, I'd take my time and get estimates from every auto upholstery shop I could find. That dash pad is very easy to remove.
I had my dash pad redone by a local shop and they did an OK job -- there is exposed stitching along the contours of the dash padding instead of the original seamlessness -- but it was much less expensive than anything I saw on eBay or in the normal Cadillac-parts channels.
JustDashes.com has a good reputation but they charge fiercely for their services.
Proactively Google for salvage yards that may have '67 Eldorados. You might get lucky and find a green one. Of course, the Expensive Law of the '67 Eldo applies here: The dash pad is a one-year-only design.
Your little spots of rust and that ding on the taillight will be easy fixes.
Finally, I'd think about removing the door-bump strips that run down the sides of the car. They were dealer-added options and I understand that they make practical sense. But the car, IMHO, looks considerably better without them. Search out some pictures and compare for yourself.
Have fun!
BTW, if you want to see some of the details from my car's recent past, the main thread is here:
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=149456.0
Wow- the roof job was what I was deathly afraid of when I decided to sell my '69. But it was easy to tell before I even stripped the vinyl - the ENTIRE roof was just like pushing on a box of cornflakes - nothing but rust under there. The seller never said a thing and I was too ignorant of vinyl top issues to see it in the ebay pics. I disclosed the condition and sold the car for a $1000 loss and considered myself fortunate for the relatively cheap lesson. I had a guy who would actually weld an entire new skin on and found a donor roof, but the little bodywork experience I have whispered to me that once I cut that roof I could end up selling the car for parts.
Anyway - I strongly admire you tackling your project and commend you for the tenacity to get through it. I will need to go through your entire story when I have a bit more time...
Thanks for sharing-
Joe
I picked up the car last weekend. Overall no big negative surprises other than missing the rear window trim. Also interesting what some guys' interpretation of "clean" title is. I guess a two owner-ago open transferrable NY registration can be classified as a clear title. I think VA will take it but had to send it off to the central office in Richmond....
The positive surprise is that it already has disc brakes, and the guy I bought it from believed they were factory.... did I read in one of the previous posts that discs were an option in '67?
Two pics attached... won't be doing much else with the car for a while - moving locally in June and possible out of state relo with my employer. But glad to have this car in the stable and looking forward to getting into it (and returning it to Pinecrest Green Metallic!). I painted my '63 myself but it was black.... will need to do some research on shooting metallic finishes...might be way over my head....
Thanks again for the great info.
Joe
That's great that it has discs. I thought that wasn't available until '68 -- but could be completely wrong. Maybe it became standard in '68?
On the paint, the time consuming part . . . and also the part that any of us can do . . . is the prep. I plan to pull all the trim off of mine myself, mostly to make sure all the OEM pieces stay together and get re-installed correctly. At a commercial body shop, the least common denominator gets assigned to the trim removal and sanding.
As for spraying, especially metallics, that takes a touch. I'd prefer that someone who is handling a spray gun day-in and day-out do that part.
$0.02!
Hey Joe,
That's an extremely solid looking and very attractive 67 Fleetwood Eldorado.
Mine had the 68 marker lights but I prefer the fender spears!
Congratulations and good luck!
Matt CLC#18621
Discs optional in 1967. I suggest you seriously back track owners to find those rear window moldings!! Impossible to find!!
I don't know why OPG hasn't reproduced these instead of inner door panel repair kits, dashpad covers, and other non-authentic stuff. All the moldings I ever see have some rust through issues.
Thanks for the info on the rear window trim. The guy I bought this from sold another slick top '67 to a friend 10 years ago, and it has been sitting in his yard since, so it's toast. I will contact him and see if his friend is willing to start parting it out yet. I agree that it is surprising they aren't being reproduced yet. I assume the 67 is different than 68-70?
Thanks,
Joe
What an exciting find! Well-equipped, and solid too. Pinecrest Green with the green interior is a very pleasing combination. I wish you much happiness and many miles of pleasurable motoring. You are likely aware that the rear window mouldings for non-vinyl roof cars are stainless, whereas the mouldings for cars with vinyl roofs have the "cross-grain" vinyl roof pattern embossed on them, and they are painted.
Charles Fares
Charles,
Sorry, but you are incorrect. The non vinyl cars are smooth steel. The same steel as the vinyl tops.
Bob
I did not know that - I am not very knowledgeable about these cars yet, but will be eventually as I was with 63's! Sounds like I better start hunting.....
Quote from: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on May 09, 2019, 09:13:57 PM
Charles,
Sorry, but you are incorrect. The non vinyl cars are smooth steel. The same steel as the vinyl tops.
Bob
Thanks, Bob.
Charles Fares
Joe- There is a salvage yard in Idaho that has a 1967 ECP on their lot. You might check with them on the window trim. L & L Classic Auto, Wendell, ID 208 536 6607. I have a 1967 that is Pinecrest Green with green interior. Check the August, 2018 Self-Starter for a picture. Good luck with the car. If I can help you in anyway send me a PM.
Hugh Dean
Nice looking car, Hugh - and I will give the yard in ID a call. Slim chance...but you didn't work in Orange, Texas years ago, did you?
Thanks,
Joe
Charles,
I pulled the moldings off of a 1968 Eldorado in a Detroit junkyard several years ago. It had a factory painted top, and the moldings are steel. Some pieces are too rusted to use, but I thought they could at least be used for patterns if no one ever reproduces them. Are you saying that all 1967 Eldorados used stainless steel rear window moldings?
Quote from: J. Skelly on May 10, 2019, 06:42:56 PM
Charles,
I pulled the moldings off of a 1968 Eldorado in a Detroit junkyard several years ago. It had a factory painted top, and the moldings are steel. Some pieces are too rusted to use, but I thought they could at least be used for patterns if no one ever reproduces them. Are you saying that all 1967 Eldorados used stainless steel rear window moldings?
No. I was not correct. As Bob correctly stated, the non-vinyl roof cars have mouldings that are painted steel. They are not stainless. I did not proof-read what I had written, being too concerned about the plain (non-vinyl roof) versus textured (vinyl roof-equipped) mouldings. Sorry for the confusion.
-Charles Fares
Congratulations on your purchase! I looked at that car last September in North Collins NY a few hours after it appeared on Craig's List. Oddly, it was listed on the Rochester NY Craig's, rather than Buffalo. In any case, it was purchased while I was making the 40 minute drive to look at it - just missed it! It had been taken off the lot, but the shop owner let me look at it anyway. I would have bought it on the spot. He said he sold it to a couple guys from Buffalo for $2900. I was surprised to see it surface on eBay being offered in Eden NY. I wonder if the original deal from September fell through?
The rear window molding is the same for 67 through 70 Eldorados, but as mentioned above cars with the roof covering have the roof pattern stamped into the molding. The slick top cars have smooth moldings.
Is it possible to put a light coat of putty on the molding to cover the stamped pattern?
Charles,
thanks for the clarification
Glen,
I know of a guy in the Detroit area who had the vinyl top removed from his '68. Since he had the correct textured moldings used with the vinyl top, and the smooth moldings are about impossible to find, he had a shop mill the moldings to make them smoother. Then the remaining texture was filled in with putty. It was done so well that they looked like factory non-vinyl moldings. I wonder how well the putty and paint will hold up on the moldings after a period of time.