Hello everyone! As the title states this is my first classic! I have always wanted a resto project and this one found itself in my driveway quite quickly.
A little backstory on the car. My uncle bought it a couple years after I was born in 1993 (I’m 28) and then he got deployed and when he came back it wouldn’t start and so it ended up sitting until January of 2019. The property ended up being put up for sale so he needed the car gone and he didn’t want to scrap it because it is a one year only car in a lot of ways. I have always wanted it since I was a kid but he said he didn’t want to sell it. It was under a car cover most of that time so I didn’t even know what it was until about a couple years ago I just knew it was old and big! He ended up giving me the car as long as once I got it running I could take him for a drive and so I forked over the cash to have it shipped to Idaho. And it has sat untouched with a waterproof cover on it since due to another project car.
This is where I plucked it from
This when I got her home. My wife and I named her Marion after “the birdsâ€
Nice starter, it has potential.
Look on ebay for a factory service manual both paper and digital.
There are several 67 Eldorado experience here to help you.
Very cool. I'm on my 3rd Eldo, a '74. Used to have a '70 that I really liked. Once I'm done restoring the '74 for my wife, I'd like to pickup either a '67-68 Eldo or '66-67 Toronado for a follow-on project. I think these hidden headlight cars were the pinnacle of Bill Mitchell's styling. Your car was my favorite matchbox car back in the day!
Quote from: Highwayman68 on October 04, 2019, 01:36:23 PM
Nice starter, it has potential.
Look on ebay for a factory service manual both paper and digital.
There are several 67 Eldorado experience here to help you.
It can with a really ratty chip tons and a huge blue blue Cadillac binder for repairs but it doesn’t cover everything. Had an issue getting it started for the first time yesterday and couldn’t figure out if it had a ballast resistor or not. I’m hoping to learn a lot through the forum and get her back to her former glory!
Quote from: hornetball on October 04, 2019, 02:28:56 PM
Very cool. I'm on my 3rd Eldo, a '74. Used to have a '70 that I really liked. Once I'm done restoring the '74 for my wife, I'd like to pickup either a '67-68 Eldo or '66-67 Toronado for a follow-on project. I think these hidden headlight cars were the pinnacle of Bill Mitchell's styling. Your car was my favorite matchbox car back in the day!
I agree! Bill Mitchell did a hell of a job on these! I follow a guy out of Austria who has several cadillacs I believe the site was www.eldorado-seville.com lots of info of his restoration. I’ve been stalking it a bit lol
Nice! Looks like you have a solid car to start with. We need another Eldorado restoration going on here.
Quote from: MaR on October 04, 2019, 03:21:51 PM
Nice! Looks like you have a solid car to start with. We need another Eldorado restoration going on here.
Thank you! I’m gonna need a lot of help from everyone here as I go through it. I’ve never worked on a points ignition or carbureted car before this one so I have a lot to learn. I’m scared of some things because it has the tilt/telescoping steering wheel and parts are really hard to find for some things
I'm a fellow '67 Eldorado worker bee. You have jumped into the deep end of the pool!
I hope you've got lots of time and money because Marion has the potential to pick you clean! :-)
If you're doing this because you think the car will be of great value in the future, stop now and invest your money in something else.
If you're doing this because the '67 Eldorado is the most beautiful post-WWII American production car and you want to preserve a piece of rolling sculpture, then you're on a better track. The '63 Riviera and Bill Mitchell's personal car (the Riviera-based 'Silver Arrow I') were the Eldorado's spectacular warm-up acts. People will yell and wave when you drive by ... even before your work is complete. And it acquits itself quite nicely on the highway too.
First of all, find a local machine shop/garage in whom you can trust and who will listen to you. Unless you've got a garage well stocked with tools, you're going to need occasional outside help with issues that require major force (e.g. front wheel bearings if you have a disc-brake car).
Also first of all, find a body expert with whom you can confide. When you peel off your vinyl top, you are going to spot some ugly surprises. Get your new body-shop friend to offer second opinions.
And finally, first of all, hone your internet-searching skills. While almost all body parts are interchangeable from 1967 to 1970, many mechanical and electrical parts are very hard to find.
So there are three things you need to do first. :-)
Then, first of all, you need to get the 1967 Cadillac shop manual, the Fisher Body manual, all the parts manuals, and any other relevant info you can find. The best single source for these is a CD sold online:
https://www.themotorbookstore.com/1967-cadillac-factory-shop-manuals-cd.html
Also, don't be a Cadillac snob. Oldsmobile did much of the heavy lifting in Eldorado's overall mechanical design. There's lots of good info at Toronado.Org. When you start asking yourself "Why did they do the front suspension this way?" read the Olds literature. Hey, even Buick got into the Eldorado act by designing the front-drive "pumpkin." The more you know about GM overall, the better because then you'll be able to cross reference parts that appear to be Eldorado-unobtainium with pieces from other GM divisions. Remember, Fisher Body and Delco weren't terribly interested in designing new, Eldorado-specific parts when they could simply pull an existing Pontiac piece off the shelf.
That's the good news. Now here's a thread that documents some of the body work I've done on my car.
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=149456.0
There's an earlier thread that I'll dig up later that addresses some of the mechanical issues.
Good luck! You're got pretty much all of your spare time for the next two or three years accounted for now. :-)
Hopefully you'll never hit the low I was feeling when I started this thread. It is full of good info on '67 Eldorado mechanical stuff, though.
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=147838.0
Fortunately, OPs car is a slick top!
Quote from: hornetball on October 04, 2019, 06:01:24 PM
Fortunately, OPs car is a slick top!
But it's a top with problems.
One thing you mentioned that no one cleared up, it does not have a ballast resistor, it has a resistor wire that serves the same purpose and runs from the engine side of the firewall to the coil. On the other side of the firewall that resistor wire is connected to a pink #12 wire from the ignition switch.
As was suggested a couple of times and bears repeating, get the Cadillac Factory Shop Manual and Fisher Body Manual for your car. Originals are easy to find on eBay and the illustrations are usually much clearer than the reproduction manuals.
Best of luck with it, but take it to heart when "67_Eldo" says ---
"I hope you've got lots of time and money because Marion has the potential to pick you clean! :-)"
Quote from: 35-709 on October 04, 2019, 07:32:50 PM
One thing you mentioned that no one cleared up, it does not have a ballast resistor, it has a resistor wire that serves the same purpose and runs from the engine side of the firewall to the coil.
Yes. A picture of that resistor wire is pic #87 on this page:
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=149456.40
I bypassed my resistor wire when I installed new wiring for the Pertronix Ignitor (I). But I did not cut the original resistor wire. I wrapped it up and hung it on the firewall.
I did basically the same thing when I put a Pertronix in my '73.
Thank you everyone for the info and comments! I have no interest in ever selling the car🙂 it’s kind of like a family heirloom of sorts to me. And I just enjoy working with my hands. I won’t know until I get a proper battery in her but it seems as though the climate control, door electrical, radio don’t work. Wipers work perfectly. Dash lights/interior lights work great. Headlight switch had the knob seemingly damaged like it was pulled too far out. Tail lights work.
My biggest concerns are the front floor and getting it running and driving. It has the ever so common rust so there is a dinner plate sized hole on the passenger side and driver side seems weak. Once my current project is finished I’m going to pull the carpet and seats and have it fixed.
The best of luck to you!
From experience I can tell you open up your wallet BIG.
If you need a floor pan one from a 70 Toro is an exact match. Experience speaking here.
Good luck. You will have a very fast car when you get done.
Does anyone know where to buy reproduction rear air shocks? Or an aftermarket equivalent? The car is almost touching the ground in the back
Yeah I did the math when I got the car. It’s power to weight ratio is the exact same almost as my 05 Subaru Wrx with a slightly bigger turbo lol just won’t be able to turn aswell. It’s gonna be a cruiser anyhow.
I need to pull the carpet out to assess the extent of the rust but from looking underneath it seems to just be the flat section of the footwell upfront. Luckily I have a good friend of mine that could help me weld up the patch panel if I can find one. 70’ toronado you said is exact? Or just really close?
Also does anyone know where exactly the famous leak is that causes the bad front floor?
Quote from: Myfirstclassic on October 07, 2019, 07:29:44 PM
Does anyone know where to buy reproduction rear air shocks? Or an aftermarket equivalent? The car is almost touching the ground in the back
Never heard of anyone reproducing the original rear superlift shockers, as the problem is that one shock uses two airline fittings, and the other one, just one.
What people usually do is get normal ones, and run split lines, either to a manual air fitting at the back of the car, or a T junction, and then run the original ALC.
Rock Auto is a good supplier. BUT, they don't show any for the '67 Eldorado, yet they do for the '68. Wonder what the difference is.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Myfirstclassic on October 07, 2019, 07:29:44 PM
Does anyone know where to buy reproduction rear air shocks? Or an aftermarket equivalent?
On my car, the shocks were worn out and the nylon hoses that fed them were shredded in spots. So I went the Toronado route and replaced them with coil-over, load-boosting shocks. I removed the entire automatic leveling system.
If the rear of your car is sitting that low, you also need to check the condition of your single-leaf rear springs. Those springs get tired over the course of 50+ years. You can get three-leaf replacements or you can get ... coil-over load-boosting shocks. :-)
You're beginning to find out some of the nutty ways that a '67 Eldorado is a one-year car. Some of that is due to genuine design changes. Other differences are due to the fact that GM had a fire in 1968 that burned up much of the parts documentation. What we have now, parts-documentation wise, has been pieced together over the years and some of it isn't accurate.
As I mentioned before, you *will* need the parts books in addition to the service manual and the body manual to fix your car. No store I know of -- including Rock Auto -- consistently gets '67 Eldorado parts right. Owning a '67 Eldorado requires lots of reading and double checking.
In this case, the 1974 Parts manual lists different shocks for the '67 and '68 Eldorados. I'm assuming that it is because Cadillac softened up the ride a bit in '68 so the latter shocks are valved accordingly. I'd also assume that a '68 shock would fit a '67 car, if you were bold enough to order one. But the '68 shock wouldn't be tuned to the '67's suspension and tires. The same goes for '69 and '70 Eldos. As I said before, almost all of the main, structural pieces of the '67 through '70 Eldos are interchangeable, rear suspension and body. But the character gradually changed from the original, sharp design of 1967 to the much more "corporate" Eldo of 1970. So suspension pieces will be tuned differently.
The famous leak is from around the windshield and is caused by water running down inside the A pillars. Also, the cowl intakes can leak and let water drip down directly to the floor inside. That's why to fix rust in the floorboards, you have to check out the sheet metal from the roof on down. It's all part of one big puzzle!
The Eldorado can hold its own, speed-wise, in modern traffic, but its low end is limited by its considerable inertia and its top end is limited by its less-than-aerodynamic profile. In other words, a 2013 Honda Fit (manual transmission) will beat you off the line, but from 50 to 100 MPH, the Eldorado wins. Above 100 MPH, step aside for a first-gen Toronado. :-)
Quote from: Myfirstclassic on October 07, 2019, 07:36:27 PM
Yeah I did the math when I got the car. It’s power to weight ratio is the exact same almost as my 05 Subaru Wrx with a slightly bigger turbo lol just won’t be able to turn aswell. It’s gonna be a cruiser anyhow.
I need to pull the carpet out to assess the extent of the rust but from looking underneath it seems to just be the flat section of the footwell upfront. Luckily I have a good friend of mine that could help me weld up the patch panel if I can find one. 70’ toronado you said is exact? Or just really close?
Also does anyone know where exactly the famous leak is that causes the bad front floor?
Don’t forget to adjust the HP for the ‘67. That was an SAE gross rating which is significantly different that the net rating that has been used since ‘72.
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 07, 2019, 08:49:06 PM
Never heard of anyone reproducing the original rear superlift shockers, as the problem is that one shock uses two airline fittings, and the other one, just one.
What people usually do is get normal ones, and run split lines, either to a manual air fitting at the back of the car, or a T junction, and then run the original ALC.
Rock Auto is a good supplier. BUT, they don't show any for the '67 Eldorado, yet they do for the '68. Wonder what the difference is.
Bruce. >:D
I have no problem slightly straying from factory on the rear setup of the ALC regarding the lines but I haven’t been under there yet to find out how the factory connects to the height valve.
To be honest I kinda wanna have the car a little lower than stock but still a Cadillac ride with the ALC fully functional
Quote from: 67_Eldo on October 07, 2019, 10:07:48 PM
On my car, the shocks were worn out and the nylon hoses that fed them were shredded in spots. So I went the Toronado route and replaced them with coil-over, load-boosting shocks. I removed the entire automatic leveling system.
If the rear of your car is sitting that low, you also need to check the condition of your single-leaf rear springs. Those springs get tired over the course of 50+ years. You can get three-leaf replacements or you can get ... coil-over load-boosting shocks. :-)
You're beginning to find out some of the nutty ways that a '67 Eldorado is a one-year car. Some of that is due to genuine design changes. Other differences are due to the fact that GM had a fire in 1968 that burned up much of the parts documentation. What we have now, parts-documentation wise, has been pieced together over the years and some of it isn't accurate.
As I mentioned before, you *will* need the parts books in addition to the service manual and the body manual to fix your car. No store I know of -- including Rock Auto -- consistently gets '67 Eldorado parts right. Owning a '67 Eldorado requires lots of reading and double checking.
In this case, the 1974 Parts manual lists different shocks for the '67 and '68 Eldorados. I'm assuming that it is because Cadillac softened up the ride a bit in '68 so the latter shocks are valved accordingly. I'd also assume that a '68 shock would fit a '67 car, if you were bold enough to order one. But the '68 shock wouldn't be tuned to the '67's suspension and tires. The same goes for '69 and '70 Eldos. As I said before, almost all of the main, structural pieces of the '67 through '70 Eldos are interchangeable, rear suspension and body. But the character gradually changed from the original, sharp design of 1967 to the much more "corporate" Eldo of 1970. So suspension pieces will be tuned differently.
The famous leak is from around the windshield and is caused by water running down inside the A pillars. Also, the cowl intakes can leak and let water drip down directly to the floor inside. That's why to fix rust in the floorboards, you have to check out the sheet metal from the roof on down. It's all part of one big puzzle!
The Eldorado can hold its own, speed-wise, in modern traffic, but its low end is limited by its considerable inertia and its top end is limited by its less-than-aerodynamic profile. In other words, a 2013 Honda Fit (manual transmission) will beat you off the line, but from 50 to 100 MPH, the Eldorado wins. Above 100 MPH, step aside for a first-gen Toronado. :-)
How is the windshield chrome removed? I wanna check for rust holes underneath. Including the rear window. (I have a waterproof cover on her now until I can replace the rock hard weatherstripping and fix the windshield leak.)
Quote from: MaR on October 08, 2019, 06:03:45 PM
Don’t forget to adjust the HP for the ‘67. That was an SAE gross rating which is significantly different that the net rating that has been used since ‘72.
What would the horsepower be at today then? Supposedly it’s about 340hp
Probably ~220-240 net.
HP is irrelevant for a Caddy though. What we need is torque and Caddy engines are renowned for that!
Quote from: hornetball on October 09, 2019, 10:31:29 AM
Probably ~220-240 net.
HP is irrelevant for a Caddy though. What we need is torque and Caddy engines are renowned for that!
Good call! As long as it will do 80 comfortably I’m ok with it lol
Quote from: Myfirstclassic on October 09, 2019, 01:31:30 AM
To be honest I kinda wanna have the car a little lower than stock but still a Cadillac ride with the ALC fully functional
On 53-year-old torsion bars and rear leaf springs, your car already sits a little lower than stock. :-)
Window trim comes off the same way it does on all GM products of that period. Get the 1967 Fisher Body Manual. Also, look at the YouTube vids that show people pulling the trim off of their vintage Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Pontiacs, and Chevrolets.
My Eldorado does 100 MPH with no difficulty at all. And at 80 MPH, I'm getting 13 MPG (without the A/C on).
Quote from: 67_Eldo on October 11, 2019, 05:19:53 PM
On 53-year-old torsion bars and rear leaf springs, your car already sits a little lower than stock. :-)
Yeah I think is just need to get the back end level with the front and see if I like it
Quote from: 67_Eldo on October 11, 2019, 05:25:36 PM
Window trim comes off the same way it does on all GM products of that period. Get the 1967 Fisher Body Manual. Also, look at the YouTube vids that show people pulling the trim off of their vintage Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Pontiacs, and Chevrolets.
My Eldorado does 100 MPH with no difficulty at all. And at 80 MPH, I'm getting 13 MPG (without the A/C on).
Once my wife and I get back from the redwoods I’m gonna buy the full set👍
just will add here that i owned a '67 eldorado, got it about a year old and kept it until i got my first mercedes, a new '70 280SL..
my memories are that the '67 eldo was one of the prettiest cars i ever owned.. it was dark blue like 'yours' with all the options and i must say that while it rode much better than the '66 toronado (which had drum brakes in front) the ride was awful for a cadillac..
all in all if given the opportunity i will get another '67 to '70 eldorado but will aim for a '69 or '70..
i hope you enjoy your eldorado.. :)
Best of luck with the 67.
My word of advice: watch that old condenser. My Caddy started right up after sitting 35 plus years but the condenser was sparking. I have a movie but I missed it. Look up my post to see the result. There is a pool going here to see if I get it running. 😕