Here is something I didn't realize and found out the hard way.
Let's say you decide to consign your Cadillac to one of the major collector vehicle auctions. Many of you may realize that these auctions encourage you to consign early because if you wait you may get a time slot that is less than ideal.
What I was unaware of is once you consign your car and something in your life then changes the auction contract states the consigner owes the auction company in addition to the entry fee the auction company wants from you both the sellers commission and the buyers commission based on the reserve price you have put on the auction consigned car.
I can understand losing the entry fee to pull your car before the auction but charging both the sellers and buyer sides of commission seems excessive.
Let's say on the way to the auction you blow your transmission or a transport shipper fails to pickup your car on time the auction company expects you to pay them.
I was unaware of that.
I guess the moral of the story is to always read the fine print and choose your consignor carefully. Knowing a bit about consumer protection law, I'd say there's a very good chance this provision being ruled "excessive" or "unreasonable" if challenged in a court of law.
It also wouldn't half surprise me if those attempting to enforce this provision already know this themselves and settle for far less when the situation does arise- knowing how some of them operate.
One more reason the average seller is often far better off doing the legwork himself in getting his car sold rather than get involved with third party consignors.
I assume this is one of the well known as seen on tv auction companies? I have always assumed those are a different world from where I live. Different expectations than someone like me that just wants to drive a car and different prices for sure that don't seem to have anything to do with the value of the model, only that specific car.
I too was surprised at that practice.
But learning this, it would be my ques that the auction house, just like a large hospital, turns over/assigns these collection items to a "Collection Agency" - for a very small fee - and then the Agency is turned loose to collect as much and in whatever way they can, in their name and not the auction house - clean hands.
Have fun,
Steve B.
PS
It bugs me we can not say who the auction house(s) are - contract issues are far outside person opinion of someones ethics.
Who are they - folks in possible jeopardy NEED to know.
Simply being forewarned should suffice for anyone following here regardless of the auction house.
You too - Eric ????
Why not speak out who it is and stop protecting or playing "I've got a secret and I'm not going to tell you".
And the OP"s experience is not the same as forewarned is forearmed - nonsense - when the statement is paired with, there are bad vendors out there, you've been warned, read the box or the papers.
I have an idea - where do you think the 5 star rating system would go if we decided to use it on our own.
We don't need to give long Gettysburg explanations - just a name and a number of stars.
Leave it up to whomever is curious to contact the OP about the rating - taking it off line as it were.
If we can get past being afraid of our shadows - then let's come out of the dark.
The Consumer Protection Agency doesn't have a problem with the rating system of stars.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Don’t pay.
If you have good credit and one blemish as a dispute it won’t hurt you.
They are being absolute pigs expecting you to pay all that. They were not “injured†financially and will fill your slot with some other seller no doubt.
Name names so we can boycott them.
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on March 02, 2020, 04:06:30 PM
You too - Eric ????
Why not speak out who it is and stop protecting or playing "I've got a secret and I'm not going to tell you".
And the OP"s experience is not the same as forewarned is forearmed - nonsense - when the statement is paired with, there are bad vendors out there, you've been warned, read the box or the papers.
I have an idea - where do you think the 5 star rating system would go if we decided to use it on our own.
We don't need to give long Gettysburg explanations - just a name and a number of stars.
Leave it up to whomever is curious to contact the OP about the rating - taking it off line as it were.
Not exactly - naming names could give readers a false sense of security by suggesting a given practice might only apply to x and not to others.
There are thousands of unscrupulous individuals/businesses out there - both within and outside the world of car dealing - and it would be impossible to address every one of them here. There already are many sites devoted to providing feedback on businesses which would provide better exposure in airing specific grievances, while being better equipped to deal with any claims of libel associated with such a service.
The CLC Forum is neither interested nor prepared to deal with the potential legalities therefore chooses to avoid the possibility altogether- quite wisely, if I may say so. :)
Lest we forget, there are two sides to every story. ;)
its not the big one in Scottsdale, AZ they don't have reserves. Once you consign your car you sign the title and the car is no longer yours.
Nothing would surprise me in how many ways people try to gain extra funds from doing the minimal work.
When seeing how many people are employed, and the lasciviousness that the Auction Companies must spend in selling someone elses' property, it is a wonder that the seller receives any of the sum their vehicle was sold for.
The trouble with the "Fine" print, is that by the time it has been read, word for word, and the placement of the commas and full stops, any transactions take place.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Caddyholic on March 02, 2020, 06:47:57 PM
its not the big one in Scottsdale, AZ they don't have reserves. Once you consign your car you sign the title and the car is no longer yours.
That was the case for a couple years (and/or specific events) but I think they have since resumed accepting entries with reserve prices.
As a follow-up; the problem is I have more than one vehicle consigned to the same auction event. They will just take the commissions they want for the no show vehicle off of the proceeds from the second vehicle that sells when they send me my check.
It's a national auction company holding an auction this month in Glendale, Az. :)
Interesting. This same outfit has in their "fine print" of
their auction legal "boiler plate" taken from their on line
auction site:
(XYZ Auctions) "is not responsible for information that
may be changed or updated prior to the auction. The
decision to purchase should be based solely on the buyer's
personal inspection of the lot at the auction site prior to
the auction."
In other words, if you're bidding by phone the description
they give in their on line presentation isn't worth spit. You
have no recourse in the event of misrepresentation.
But -- if you're going to spend six figures for a vehicle,
it's critical to buy plane tickets and do a personal
inspection if you're serious about a purchase.
Mike
The same goes for bidding at these major auctions.
Read the fine print.
Even when you set a limit to your bidding, the fine print may say the auction house provides an automatic extension of your limit, which you are liable for.
Meanwhile, if you wish to contest any discrepancy in a completed auction, you are liable for buyers and sellers premiums, storage of the vehicle while the dispute is being resolved, plus the price difference realized the next time the vehicle is auctioned.
And the consignor can make any false claim they wish with no accountability.
Buyer beware.
So, watch them on TV or in person if you like, but don't consign or bid.
Auction houses. Never have used them, never will. They grab money from all angles, both seller and buyer, provide nothing more than a venue, take absolutely no responsibility for the goods they sell, and have ZERO skin in the game. No accountability.
I'll pass. They can all make their millions off of others willing to succumb to their mob style tactics.
Selling a really nice car is not that hard that you can't do it yourself. Buying a nice car yourself is even easier--and most likely cheaper. Let's be honest here; what guarantees and or protections are you provided by an auction house. None. So what are you paying fees after fees for?
Hello ,
I couldn't buy a car for 5,000 or 100,000 with out putting my eyeball on the car . I would have to drive it, study it and talk to the seller to get a good opinion of the car . However a lot of people buy them sight unseen . They all look good on the auction Block . However you do have two or three days to see the car if you take time to travel to the auction site .
Bill
Plus they're getting TV revenues. All at the car owners/sellers expense. There's a cadre of attention cars that show up auction after auction, it's for "show" not all "go".
Unfortunately, it's not the only thing, sports, etc. that's been spoiled by "lawyers" and big media TV. We might have to put a "G" in our countries name for greedy...But the golfers already have that trademark...
But where else are you going to take your big collection and be able to sell it in one week?
C'est la vie. Caveat Emptor. Caveat America.
At some point in history, auctions, auction houses and auctioneers had a negative connotation and it was considered a ‘distressed sale’ venue.
No sure this perception has been altered by the big TV auction shows.
It’s just a higher production value.
I don’t even watch them any more. I cut the cable cord 8 years ago and honestly I don’t miss those shows one bit. Every once in a while I will catch a minute or two in passing while traveling and they remind me of watching gamblers at a game table. The house always wins and most of the players cheat and there has to be a mark. If you can’t spot the mark, that means it’s you. The added dimension to an auction is the ‘shill’.
Or maybe it reminds me of a circus...either way...
At the big Scottsdale AZ Auction a bidders pass is $500(2 passes all week and 10 drinks per pass per day). The tickets to watch on Saturday are $75. And there is a whole another circus carnival thing with all types of vendors going on in some the tents. I am sure those vendors pay for the spot. and that does not include the all inculsive club passes. They make money had over fist besides the cars.
The "skin" these auction companies have in the game is investment in the venues, marketing, personnel, etc. to try to get as much as possible for the cars being auctioned. A reason sellers use these auction houses is because they hope or expect that the added exposure will allow them to net (after seller fees) more, possibly much more, for their cars versus trying to sell privately. It can definitely be a win-win for both the auction house AND the seller but no one is forced to buy or sell through these companies or pay to attend their events, etc. Of course, this also applies to auctions for fine art, wine, real estate, coins, etc.
Well the alternative to using the big auction houses is to hold your own. But then you will have to pay for the advertising, the auctioneer, the location, (unless you use your own home), and any other incidental expenditures, (including insurance).
I enjoy looking at some of the auctions when they have older vehicles, but I don't think I would ever actually attend one. I'm not a player anyway, barely can afford to live anymore.
My involvement in this hobby is as I can afford to do it, and I have to do most of it myself.
Auctions are just out of my league. But I can see where they are making their money just from watching what they do and from reading some of their advertising. If you have money to burn, the auction is the place to go.
Just my observations and personal opinion.
Rick
Auction houses make a profit on the services they provide while providing employment for thousands of people.
And when, for example, a GM Futureliner sells for $4M when the seller only wanted $800K, I doubt the seller was complaining about auction fees.
Quote from: Caddyholic on March 03, 2020, 09:34:08 AM
At the big Scottsdale AZ Auction a bidders pass is $500(2 passes all week and 10 drinks per pass per day). The tickets to watch on Saturday are $75. ......
No wonder I cannot afford to go to an auction.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 03, 2020, 06:15:07 PM
No wonder I cannot afford to go to an auction.
Bruce. >:D
You and me both Bruce. And I don't have to go halfway round the world either!
Only 10 drinks per day? How you gonna get a full day of reckless spending with only 10 drinks?
Quote from: Caddyholic on March 03, 2020, 09:34:08 AM
At the big Scottsdale AZ Auction a bidders pass is $500(2 passes all week and 10 drinks per pass per day). The tickets to watch on Saturday are $75. And there is a whole another circus carnival thing with all types of vendors going on in some the tents. I am sure those vendors pay for the spot. and that does not include the all inculsive club passes. They make money had over fist besides the cars.
That would explain some of the insane bidding.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on March 03, 2020, 10:58:41 PM
Only 10 drinks per day? How you gonna get a full day of reckless spending with only 10 drinks?
That is actually, 10 drinks per pair, so 5 drinks each per day. Doesn't say what sort of drinks though .... Beer, Liqueur, Cordial or Water?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: cadillacmike68 on March 03, 2020, 11:14:22 PM
That would explain some of the insane bidding.
You mean like a 3.4 million dollar Mustang? Somebody was clearly drunk that day.
Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 03, 2020, 11:34:33 PM
You mean like a 3.4 million dollar Mustang? Somebody was clearly drunk that day.
Yeah, that was down here in Kissimmee. Steve McQueen even tried to buy that car a few years ago, but the owner held out. I guess his retirement plans are set.
Never been a mustang fan, especially a closed body, and this car while largely original from the film, was pretty beat up.
So when is the boss hog Cadillac going up???
Three words: Bring A Trailer.com. Serious bidders, no games and reasonable fees. Sellers are most often responding to specific questions, and interested parties can respond. And no, I have no affiliation whatsoever.
A recent auction on Bring A Trailer featured a Fiat Jolly that ended on a sale of $147K.
So much for only the big auction houses getting the whales.
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 03, 2020, 11:25:36 PM
That is actually, 10 drinks per pair, so 5 drinks each per day. Doesn't say what sort of drinks though .... Beer, Liqueur, Cordial or Water?
Bruce. >:D I went last year 2019 with a friend (and our wives) that has been going for 15 years. He clued me in on the bidders pass (that I bought) bidders pass comes with guess pass and each pass had 10 drinks per day. soda, water, juice, Miller lite, coors lite, titos, evan williams, patron etc. no cheap liquor and the bar tenders are all models. The bidders pass also gave you preferred parking so you don't have to park 2 miles away. I would recommend car guys do this at least once I had a blast. It was a vacation in AZ in Jan. What you see on TV is only half of it. There are some bargains and it is not all collector cars. Its auction week with 4 to 6 other auctions in town that week. A big cruise Saturday at this MacDonald's that was 300 to 400 cars and a lot of them for sale.
PS. I only bought a T shirt.
Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 03, 2020, 11:34:33 PM
You mean like a 3.4 million dollar Mustang? Somebody was clearly drunk that day.
The Maltese Falcon statuette used the 1941 Humphrey Bogart film sold for $4.1M in 2013. Marilyn Monroe's dress worn in
The Seven Year Itch sold $4.6M in 2011.
All things considered, I think the Mustang brought just about what I would have expected.
I personally, if I had that much money to spend on a car, I would have bought about half a dozen Mustangs and fixed them up just like that one, or even a full blown restoration, and driven the hell out of one or two, had my fun, and still have another 4 to share or sell or hoard or whatever, and still be money ahead.
It's not like that one was the only one in existence.
For a V16 Cadillac or Packard, a Duesenberg, or another rare and restored car I could maybe see that, but not for a run of the mill, beat to crap Mustang just because someone famous once drove it in a movie.
Same thing for the dress. If my wife wanted it, I'd have a 100 made for her if it made her happy.
If the feces ever contacts the rotary oscillator and it's everybody for themselves, just what is all that high priced stuff really gonna be worth then?
But that's just me. I guess if you have the money, and you want the car, dress or statue, you pays the price.
I sure would have liked to have been the seller of the car though. No retirement worries for him now.
Rick
Sale estimates for the "Bullitt" Mustang were $3 to $5 million so I too think it pretty much brought what was expected. One year earlier at the same auction venue, a one off 1967 Shelby Mustang GT500 Super Snake sold for $2.2 million.
While the high dollar cars tend to get the most attention, these auctions also sell plenty of low priced cars too. There's potentially something for everybody.
Quote from: Cadman-iac on March 04, 2020, 12:11:55 PM
I personally, if I had that much money to spend on a car, I would have bought about half a dozen Mustangs and fixed them up just like that one, or even a full blown restoration, and driven the hell out of one or two, had my fun, and still have another 4 to share or sell or hoard or whatever, and still be money ahead.
It's not like that one was the only one in existence.
For a V16 Cadillac or Packard, a Duesenberg, or another rare and restored car I could maybe see that, but not for a run of the mill, beat to crap Mustang just because someone famous once drove it in a movie.
Same thing for the dress. If my wife wanted it, I'd have a 100 made for her if it made her happy.
If the feces ever contacts the rotary oscillator and it's everybody for themselves, just what is all that high priced stuff really gonna be worth then?
But that's just me. I guess if you have the money, and you want the car, dress or statue, you pays the price.
I sure would have liked to have been the seller of the car though. No retirement worries for him now.
Rick
I agree. The only folks bidding an buying these cars are those that can afford a $100K loss (or more) on them at the time they sell. I truly believe it means nothing to them but bragging rights. Which is fine if you have the bucks and don't care.
I remember the muscle car craze in the '90's when a Hemi Cuda convertible would bring over a million dollars. Not so much now. And the folks that bought one at or near that price probably couldn't care less about the loss of value when buyers interests shift and the next generation starts looking at other automotive options.
Let's be honest here... How long before very few folks will even know who Marilyn Monroe was? -- or will even care about a dress she wore.
Quote from: johnregrus on March 02, 2020, 11:34:33 AM
Here is something I didn't realize and found out the hard way.
Let's say you decide to consign your Cadillac to one of the major collector vehicle auctions. Many of you may realize that these auctions encourage you to consign early because if you wait you may get a time slot that is less than ideal.
What I was unaware of is once you consign your car and something in your life then changes the auction contract states the consigner owes the auction company in addition to the entry fee the auction company wants from you both the sellers commission and the buyers commission based on the reserve price you have put on the auction consigned car.
I can understand losing the entry fee to pull your car before the auction but charging both the sellers and buyer sides of commission seems excessive.
Let's say on the way to the auction you blow your transmission or a transport shipper fails to pickup your car on time the auction company expects you to pay them.
So here is the rest of the story and it doesn't get any better. The more I deal with collector car auction companies the more I dislike them.
I wasn't prepared to lose the 20% commission (both the sellers and buyers side) charged to me for not showing up at the auction with the car so I delivered the car to the venue two days before the auctions start date.
I check the car in and they take the keys and leave it in a lineup, then the auction company takes it from there and places it where they want on the show field.
As they have the title and the keys, they now have care, custody and control of the vehicle.
Well when one of their moron employees or volunteer drivers parking it backs it into a pole and smashed the rear bumper. Not a little smash; the bumper is now has a big "V'" dead center in the middle. I reported it and the auction stated they are not responsible for damage. OK I can buy that but now the car is worth less that what it was when I left it in their care.
1. I tried to get them to remove it from the auction sale so I could repair the damage. They would not.
2. I tried to have them announce that the vehicle was damaged on the auction site and would be repaired before delivery to the new buyer. They would not.
3. On the stage the car got to within $3,000.00 of reserve and I asked them to reduce the sellers commission a little to make a sale. The auctions closure guy on the stage stated "that's not going to happen".
So I refused to remove my reserve and the car didn't sell.
The auction could have earned a few thousand dollars sellers commission and a few more thousand buyers commission but instead they chose not to budge and all they got was the entrance fee. Just stupid in my opinion.
I can tell you this, the next car I have going up for sale is in the $200,000.00 value range and this particular auction house won't even get a chance at it.
Interesting story, thanks for the update.
So on my way to work yesterday, I see a car being unloaded from a car carrier and I could see what it was before I reached the parking lot where the truck was.
So I whip into the lot to watch the car being unloaded. It was a nice old caddy and a guy was there watching too and he said he bought it at Amelia Island RM auction. It was a very cool car and I watched it unload and showed the guy how to shift a Hydramatic as he was unfamiliar with it.
Anyway, as it was being unloaded I noticed some minor sort of sideswipe damage in a couple of spots on the car.
After just reading your story I went back to the auction page and looked at the areas I saw that were damaged and there was no damage in the pics, so somewhere along the line during the process, the car got damaged too.
So if the auction house and their bonehead jockeys aren’t indemnified, it’s just a free for all. A hold harmless agreement would make me stop dead in my tracks along that path. If that’s the way it is, then folks need to take a closer look at the fine print.
I will say the guy unloading the car from the truck was very careful about it.
John/Jim/Ken, interesting stories & perspectives for sure. Sorry to hear what happened to your car John. Clay/Lexi
Quote from: johnregrus on March 12, 2020, 08:41:07 PM
So here is the rest of the story and it doesn't get any better. The more I deal with collector car auction companies the more I dislike them.
I wasn't prepared to lose the 20% commission (both the sellers and buyers side) charged to me for not showing up at the auction with the car so I delivered the car to the venue two days before the auctions start date.
I check the car in and they take the keys and leave it in a lineup, then the auction company takes it from there and places it where they want on the show field.
As they have the title and the keys, they now have care, custody and control of the vehicle.
Well when one of their moron employees or volunteer drivers parking it backs it into a pole and smashed the rear bumper. Not a little smash; the bumper is now has a big "V'" dead center in the middle. I reported it and the auction stated they are not responsible for damage. OK I can buy that but now the car is worth less that what it was when I left it in their care.
1. I tried to get them to remove it from the auction sale so I could repair the damage. They would not.
2. I tried to have them announce that the vehicle was damaged on the auction site and would be repaired before delivery to the new buyer. They would not.
3. On the stage the car got to within $3,000.00 of reserve and I asked them to reduce the sellers commission a little to make a sale. The auctions closure guy on the stage stated "that's not going to happen".
So I refused to remove my reserve and the car didn't sell.
The auction could have earned a few thousand dollars sellers commission and a few more thousand buyers commission but instead they chose not to budge and all they got was the entrance fee. Just stupid in my opinion.
I can tell you this, the next car I have going up for sale is in the $200,000.00 value range and this particular auction house won't even get a chance at it.
This is what I meant by these auction houses having "no skin in the game". No responsibility, no liability, means they collect and collect without having any concern for the goods they are handling and profiting from.
Quote from: cadillac ken on March 14, 2020, 03:21:03 PM
This is what I meant by these auction houses having "no skin in the game". No responsibility, no liability, means they collect and collect without having any concern for the goods they are handling and profiting from.
All business entities have "skin in the game" and disagreeable policies - however many or few - doesn't change the fact.
Personally I would not consign a vehicle to one of these places for any number of reasons but that's me.
The auction house has no skin in the game ? Do you realize what a huge undertaking an auction event is and the expenses involved ? A car that’s bid up to 3k of its reserve should of probably been let go , it’s a personal choice but with the return shipping and the hassle of trying to sell it outright after it’s been seen at an auction , I personally would have pulled the reserve and moved on .
I've been driving at the mecum auction in Las Vegas for three years now.
The first two years were through the local Mustang club--they *contacted* us to do it.
At first I thought that that was a bit odd, but as I thought about it, it made sense: where better than a car club to find folks used to being ultra careful with cars?
Anyway, the first year we called another club for more bodies and paid them most of the fee we got (a few bucks a car), but they were too much effort, refusing to drive anything but their preferred vehicle.
They provided that they fee could either be paid to us, or we could designate a charity.
We accepted enough to host our Christmas party, and sent the bulk to our go-to charity (St. Jude's Ranch for Children [not the same thing as the hospital]).
The next year, we brought in other folks as individuals. They were tickled pink with our performance, and with a bill due of something in the range of $4,700, they gave us a bonus and rounded to $6k.
OK, when the revenue gets reported, it's "$6,000 . . . oh wait, $6,020 with Doc's tip." ;D
I was designated the old car expert (without prior warning), both as I love the prewar stuff, and moreso because I was able to start the '31 Packard the year before (thanks do driving Carl's '27 Cadillac). So I frequently got pulled from wherever I was to come drive something else (including a Cord that had to be towed, but they wanted me behind the wheel [*sniff* that would be *awesome* to have driven], and a '35 or so Pierce Arrow [a genuine work of art worthy of Cadillac!] from a collection that ended up getting pushed because they'd used too short a screw rebuilding the stater the day before! I offered to pop-start the thing with a push, but they were trying until it was only 3 cars from the stage . . .)
Anyway, the $20 called when I was pulled from a built '64 corvette, as someone had bought a '30 Model A roadster but didn't know how to drive it, and it had to go down to his trailer. So I did it, and when I finished he happily handed me a $20 . . . thus the screwball number.
Alas, we were one of something like two clubs in the whole country that actually ran things well and showed up with enough drivers, so last year the contracted with a company to run the driving. We're still at the top of the list, but now it's $30/driver/day, so something more than half what we made for the charity before.
As it happened, I found myself driving a '93 Fleetwood from display to pre-staging.
And ended up buying it.
In hindsight, I paid a little bit too much. I was calculating the 8.5% sales tax when I made my final bid (and would not have gone any higher), which isn't charged on private sales here, but didn't add the other 10%.
Oh, well; I love the car, and for the first time in decades, am driving a car I fit . . .
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 14, 2020, 03:40:56 PM
All business entities have "skin in the game" and disagreeable policies - however many or few - doesn't change the fact.
Personally I would not consign a vehicle to one of these places for any number of reasons but that's me.
I have owned my own business for over 28 years now. I own my own building, thousands of dollars in equipment, and pay a lot of overhead. IMO, that's not "skin in the game". That is what a business has to do to do business.
I can tell you that my reputation is far, far better than any auction house that peddles cars. Why? Because my clients know that I stand behind what I do. I take responsibility, and that, my friend is the "skin" you risk. Having skin in the game and money in your game are far and away two separate things. Making the sale and walking away with a paycheck and essentially saying "good luck, lose my number" is not my idea of having a notion of skin, your skin on the line if things go wrong.
But of course thousands of folks every year sell their cars at auction and are willing to accept such practices. However, we see that many are not aware of just how irresponsible these car dealers are. I guess for some the convenience is worth it-- until of course something goes very wrong.
Just to make another point about insurance.
It is possible that your car insurance wouldn’t pay a claim for damage done at one of these auctions, or they could come back to you to return the proceeds from the claim if they go to sue somebody for your damages paid and they find out you signed a hold harmless agreement without their expressed permission.
It’s called subrogation. You can’t sign a hold harmless agreement without permission from the insurer. Well, you can, but you waive your right to an insurance claim.
Plus it’s a gray area because of the ownership change and the insurance coverage change halfway through the process
Basically, you are signing away the right of the insurer to go back after the auction house’s insurance after your insurer pays your claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subrogation
I’m not a lawyer or an insurance guy, I just have experience with people trying to get me to sign hold harmless agreements and having this explained to me by corporate lawyers.
I don’t know if there is some sort of specialized insurance product that covers you during this process, but it would be worth checking into it before engaging one of these auction houses. Especially with selling multiple vehicles and/or high value vehicles.
Quote from: cadillac ken on March 17, 2020, 08:51:36 AM
I have owned my own business for over 28 years now. I own my own building, thousands of dollars in equipment, and pay a lot of overhead. IMO, that's not "skin in the game". That is what a business has to do to do business.
If business risk and capital investment risk don't qualify as "skin in the game" I don't know what else does.
I am a lawyer, but I haven't looked at the policy.
I'd be stunned, though, to find that classic policies don't cover the sale at the end of ownership . . .
[then again, the things that have startled me over the years as a lawyer led to Hawkins' Second Law: "There is no lower bound to human intelligence--no matter how stupid person you encounter, there's worse around the corner!"
I'm the one that reviews those for our club (I'm a lawyer), but I'm less than convinced that they would be effective if needed.
I put *far* more faith in the insurance policies . . . (and got asked for advice in a recent incident with another club . . .)