On another non auto forum a member was asking some questions about car batteries and mentioned he gets a little over 2 years out of them in southern California. Someone posted a chart that I can't find the source for that showed us northerners actually have it the best with our freezing temps and on average get almost 5 years out of a battery.
I knew heat was hard on batteries but didn't know it was that bad. Alaska and presumably much of Canada are second place at a little over 4 years because they get more and colder temps than where I am. The middle part of the US where it doesn't get extreme either way is just under 4 years. The south is about 3 1/2 years. So Cal, So Texas, and most of Florida is about 2 1/2 years.
I have never lived anywhere else so I don't know how accurate that chart was for everywhere else but for my area I would say 5 years seems like a good average. I know I have had batteries go about 7 and some at 4, pretty rare for something that gets somewhat regular use and maintenance to go less for me.
I wonder if the freezing temps actually helps? or is it just the heat really hurts? I would not think 20-30 degrees F difference in ambient temp would make that big a difference to non humans. It must be that the AC is always on and many of those very south areas have a lot of people and traffic so that we are talking 100's of degrees higher under hood temps for extended periods of time and that is whats killing batteries? Do you classic car people in those areas notice a difference in battery life between the daily drivers that do have to endure that vs the classics that don't tend to get used on the very hot days or when traffic is likely?
I usually start thinking of replacing at 5 years, since it could go anytime. But I have had some last 6 or more years if I get lazy and do not replace it. I usually do the wife's car at about 5 years since I do not want to be bothered with an I am stranded call.
In fact, she now has AAA so I do not even want a call.
If you are in the southern part of Texas you are going great at 5 years, if you are in the north then you are just average.
I’m in southern Texas and 4-1/2 to 5 years is what I’ve
Been getting for the last 20+ years using AC Delco batteries.
Greg Surfas
Boston here checking in... The AC Delco battery in my Acadia lasted 7 years, replaced with another AC Delco.
I live in a northern latitude and while a battery can last more than 5 years, I replace at 5 as a proactive measure.
What I do know is lead acid batteries do crank better in colder climates than other types of batteries, whether or not that translates into longer life? I have no idea.
Maybe I am getting old, but the price of batteries is what seems out of line these days.
I am not changing the subject, but I think if they were more reasonably priced, folks would change them before they cr*p out instead of hanging on to them until they get stuck somewhere.
So Greg and Laurie are on the higher side of the average. Curious to hear from more people and see if its really a thing where its hot. For those outside the USA if you want to look a map and tell us what part of the USA relates to your climate that will help us geographically challenged people know where you fit into the averages.
One reason for high costs other than that's just how things seem to go, they think they can charge more so they do is it been quite a few years since there has been any new lead mined in the USA. I looked for info to back that up but everything that comes up in searches is at least 10 years old when there were apparently still 5 active mines so likely outdated.
Sonoran desert pretty consistent 2 years! No matter what brand you buy! No matter how much you use it.
HOWEVER, early optimas (made in USA) I had seen last over 10 years! One 15 years!
TJ
The prices and quality range of batteries is Quite wide. The AC Delco batteries I am buying run just about $150.00. I have
Seen “replacements†at less than 1/2 that cost. Perhaps the cost divided by the years might make a more equitable comparison.
Greg Surfas
Quote from: TJ Hopland on September 08, 2020, 12:42:35 PM
If you are in the southern part of Texas you are going great at 5 years, if you are in the north then you are just average.
.
I did say 6 or more but any time after 5 years it could go at any time. Guess I was not clear.
Consumer Report rated Walmarts' batteries (EVER START-maxx) as the better for quality and endurance; I use them in all may five cars and find them to be just about the best quality for dependability, etc. Their prices for the best ones run around $100.00 and they last 5-7 years. Those AC DELCO batteries are way over priced and their reliability is just about reasonable; are they made in China or at least their internal parts shipped here for assembly? Just for thought! EAM
I too would say the Optimas from back when Optima was an independent company were amazing batteries and only cost slightly more than standard premium batteries but that didn't last. Since the sale which was what 10+ years ago now they are twice the cost for about the same longevity so the only reason to buy one is if you need that spill proof or extra physically rugged feature.
From what I have seen the month warranty thing most brands use seems to be a reasonable comparison and representation of how long they will likely last. I'm not sure if they adjust that rating depending on the area they are sold in but at least for me that has been a decent way to compare. If a $100 48 month battery gets you 4 years in your area the $150 72 month should get you 6 years. If the 48 only gets you 2 years you should be able to scale that to 3 years for the 72.
Have others seen that the warranty life does seem to relate to the actual life, not necessarily the advertised period but at least a higher advertised one lasts longer as in my above example of if a 48 month lasts you 2 years the 72 would last for 3? That is what I have seen. I usually buy the longest life ones I can get but the few times I have bought cars and the batteries had dates on them the shorter life ones did seem to have shorter lives.
I have had batteries really stand out and gone and got that brand again and they have turned out to be either complete turds or barely average so I have less of a brand preference these days. I think part of the problem is it can be very difficult to know who is actually making what batteries and what the quality level is and the big problem is it can change batch to batch or when ever the contract between that brand and manufacture is re negotiated. Excide may tell wally that we can't do what we have been doing for the same price. Wally says were not paying more so their only option is make it cheaper. If the lower quality seems to hurt sales then maybe Johnson comes in next quarter and says they can meet the quality and the price wally wants so next batch may be from a completely different company. Its not like it was 20 or 30 years ago where the same company would make what ever stores batteries for years and years, maybe even the whole life of both companies. Like so many things today its a race to the bottom.
I've found that if you don't overtax the battery it lasts a lot longer. I always turn off all accessories, and I roll up the power windows before I turn off the engine, and I let the engine idle for a bit before I turn it off. And when I start the vehicle, I let it run a bit before I turn anything back on or roll down the power windows again. I let the alternator take the load instead of using the battery.
I'm in the southwest and my batteries typically last 5 to 7 years that way. The only time I have an issue is if I leave something plugged into the accessories port.
I figure that if all I use the battery for is the short cranking time, then the charging system will take over and power everything after that.
I have had a few batteries go for longer than 8 years, but that was 20 years ago too, when the quality seemed to be better than what you get today.
The batteries I run are the ones that Walmart sells, but I have noticed that they don't last as long now. It's almost like the manufacturers know how to make one last exactly the length of time of the warranty, give or take a few months. I've noticed that the warranty period has gotten shorter and shorter, while the price just keeps going up and up too.
Let me ask everyone this. One local parts store near me told me that they now will only warranty a battery for the length of the free replacement portion of the warranty and after that there's no pro-ration. I was told by said store that all manufacturers were going to this method because of some class action lawsuit over the pro-rating of batteries, because they were not being pro-rated fairly.
Has anyone else heard such a thing? Since then, I keep checking the battery shelf in Walmart for anything like that about their warranty, but as of yet have not seen anything.
Rick
Richard,
Yes, the "pro rata" approach appears to be a way for battery producers to cut costs for early battery failures. I have had this occur... a battery that was a year and a half old, failed, and so a new one still cost me a pro rata share. That is, of course, determined on a sliding scale--- and in this case, I think the pro rata policy was in effect for 2 (or 3 years)-- kind of gives you an idea of what the aggregate life span might be for batteries that are put to hard use, or in cars with marginal electrical systems,or, perhaps, of cheap quality. James
Quote from: James Landi on September 09, 2020, 07:10:40 AM
Richard,
Yes, the "pro rata" approach appears to be a way for battery producers to cut costs for early battery failures. I have had this occur... a battery that was a year and a half old, failed, and so a new one still cost me a pro rata share. That is, of course, determined on a sliding scale--- and in this case, I think the pro rata policy was in effect for 2 (or 3 years)-- kind of gives you an idea of what the aggregate life span might be for batteries that are put to hard use, or in cars with marginal electrical systems,or, perhaps, of cheap quality. James
Thanks for your reply James, I appreciate it. I think I didn't explain clearly what I was told by the local store. I understand how the pro-rating is calculated, I've done it many many times over the years from both sides of the counter.
Here's what I was told. You know how the maker's offer a say 5 year warranty, and the first 2 or 3 years are offered as a free exchange if it fails within that time. It's after the free exchange period that the proration begins, and they revert back to day one. So a 5 year battery, or 60 month, that cost you 60 dollars ( for ease of calculation), and you get 32 months out of it before it fails, you would get another one for no charge as it fell within the 36 month free exchange period.
But say you got 40 months out of it, you're past the free exchange period, so it's then pro-rated for 40 months, or 40 dollars. You would have 20 dollars coming back to you for the unused portion of the warranty.
What this guy told me is that if you buy that same battery with a 3 year free replacement warranty, that that is all you would get. If it fails before the 3 year period, you get another one for free. But, if it fails at month 37, you get nothing. There's no more proration.
Like I said earlier, I have not seen anything about this from any other store. Personally, I think he got the facts wrong, but these days you never know.
That's why I posed the question. I want to know if anyone else has ever heard of such a change to the warranty period. Having dealt with batteries for years, I understand how the warranty works, and I questioned him about it. He was very sure about what he told me, although I'm not so sure he got it right.
Who knows if this is something that may be coming in the future by all stores and manufacturers of batteries. It honestly wouldn't surprise me.
But he said it's because of one or more class action lawsuits, and it's believable, but hard to swallow. I hope that he got the facts wrong and misunderstood what happened.
What say you?
Rick
There is another twist to the free replacement/proration game that AAA uses.
AAA installed a battery in my 1989 Fleetwood. The battery had a free replacement if it failed during the first 36 months, and proration for the 37th through 60th month. The battery failed during the 22nd month, and I received a free replacement. The replacement failed 16 months later. One would think the replacement would carry the same 36-month free replacement warranty. But no! The replacement only carried free replacement for the unused 14 months of the warranty for the battery that was replaced. So SOL on the warranty for the replacement. I bought an Interstate instead, because of two AAA batteries failing in the Cadillac, two failing in a Ford Bronco, and one failing in my '72 Lincoln, all within similar time-frames.
Regarding the original question, in the San Diego metropolitan area I have regularly gotten about 5 years out of a daily driver battery, with the exception of the 5 AAA batteries mentioned above. I think AAA just got bad batteries.
Well maybe I am with the exception but I get 10 years out of my batteries. I do check the water level even in the sealed batteries and add distilled water to the split ring every six months if they need it. I read an article recently that said battery tenders reduce the life of the battery which surprised me. I do believe that the battery manufacturers have cheapened the lead acid batteries and they now last about seven years. I checked the interstate in my 58 and it was manufactured in 2010 and still cracking strong.
Charles,
That's a very good point, and I had forgotten to mention that in my last post.
The reason why they don't start the warranty period over when you receive an exchange during the free replacement period, is because you have used that part of the warranty. Even though you didn't have to pay a proration. The proration is basically just balancing the books so that you only pay for the time you actually got out of the battery.
I have heard stories about people who would get another battery during the free replacement period and the store employee didn't understand how the warranty works, so every 2 to 3 years, the customer was getting another new battery, and was basically getting an endless warranty for free.
Stores caught on to that, and taught their employees how to deal with the warranty correctly.
My father in law was one such person who was doing that with either a Monkey Wards or a K-Mart battery. He bragged about getting something like 12 years out of his battery because the store didn't catch it.
Sometimes it's hard to explain to someone why they can't have an endless battery warranty. You physically have to show them how it works, and even then, some just don't understand.
That free replacement portion is designed to make it easier for the customer to get another battery hassle free.
If they went to a proration from day one, then people would understand. But the battery manufacturers are banking on their battery lasting at least as long as the free replacement period, and for the most part, they do. It's a sales gimmick basically.
Rick
Since I keep detailed service records on all my cars, here is the specs from my most recent battery replacement:
Car: 2012 Cadillac SRX, A daily driver with 63,374 miles when battery was installed, and 101,550 miles when replaced.
Battery: AutoZone Duralast H6-DLG
Miles on Battery: 38,176
Date Battery Bought: 10/25/2017
Price: $159.99 minus $18 core charge.
Date Battery Replaced: 9/4/2020
Life of Battery: Just under 3 Years
Cost to Replace: FREE, just under the 3 free replacment warranty period
Our Location: Raleigh, North Carolina, Very Hot Humid Summers, usually mild winters. It has hit 90+ degrees 64 times so far this year. So while we are the Northern Carolina state it gets very hot with heat indexes often up to 110 to 115 F.
Summary: Hope to get about another 3 years with the exact same battery. Would prefer to just spend another $50 or $100 and get a quality battery like they made in "Ye Olde Days" and get another 2 to 3 years of service. This was a bit scary as I was about to go out of town the next day and my wife went to go to store that morning and click, click, click... down to about 10.9 volts. She said it had been sluggish to crank the day before leaving work. I try to be proactive but like to think you could get 4 to 5 years. At least this was a a freebie. If it had given out just over a month later I would have had to pay the pro rate amount.
Bought cheapie generic no-name battery for my 1962 10 years ago. Still in the car to this day.
Our experience in the Palm Springs area.
New car batteries last about 3+ years.
Replacement batteries last 2+ years.
No particular abuse.
Buy in auto parts stores.
No bargains.
Don't buy the long life batteries any more.
They last about the same as the regular life batteries
First Optima lasted forever.
The second Optima did not last forever.
The third Optima--don't know yet.
And yes, in northern California they lasted a lot longer.
I don't know that I have ever tried to claim a battery warranty so I had no idea that the trend is away from the prorate. Most of the ones I was suspect of came to me in cars so I didn't have any paperwork so didn't want the possible hassle of trying to return something I didn't buy in the first place.
Very interesting that at least one person said they have not seen much difference in the warranty life / grades of batteries. What have others experienced?
I was leaving the not daily driven classics out of my scientific study here just because irregular use can really effect the life of the battery. I wounder if my results here may be skewed anyway because I would guess while there are likely some members here with 'imports' its probably a much smaller percentage than the national average.
On that other forum I know the original poster has Asian cars as did many of the other respondents that did say what brand of car they had. Maybe Asian cars are harder on batteries especially in hotter climates? I have almost zero exposure to Asian cars. I have more recently had and been around some German cars and battery life seems the same on those as my domestic stuff.
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 09, 2020, 06:00:40 AM
I've found that if you don't overtax the battery it lasts a lot longer. I always turn off all accessories, and I roll up the power windows before I turn off the engine, and I let the engine idle for a bit before I turn it off. And when I start the vehicle, I let it run a bit before I turn anything back on or roll down the power windows again. I let the alternator take the load instead of using the battery.
I'm in the southwest and my batteries typically last 5 to 7 years that way. The only time I have an issue is if I leave something plugged into the accessories port.
I figure that if all I use the battery for is the short cranking time, then the charging system will take over and power everything after that.
I have had a few batteries go for longer than 8 years, but that was 20 years ago too, when the quality seemed to be better than what you get today.
The batteries I run are the ones that Walmart sells, but I have noticed that they don't last as long now. It's almost like the manufacturers know how to make one last exactly the length of time of the warranty, give or take a few months. I've noticed that the warranty period has gotten shorter and shorter, while the price just keeps going up and up too.
Let me ask everyone this. One local parts store near me told me that they now will only warranty a battery for the length of the free replacement portion of the warranty and after that there's no pro-ration. I was told by said store that all manufacturers were going to this method because of some class action lawsuit over the pro-rating of batteries, because they were not being pro-rated fairly.
Has anyone else heard such a thing? Since then, I keep checking the battery shelf in Walmart for anything like that about their warranty, but as of yet have not seen anything.
Rick
Complete difference here. In the closed cars the Climate Control is almost Never off, usually on Auto or bi-level. Radios are left on. Windows go down for the cars parked in the garage, usually with the car still running. Twilight Sentinel is always on Auto for all the cars. The convertible has its Climate Contro Off, but that's vbecause the car almost always has the top down.
Life:
6 years on the batts in the 68 DVC so far, 9 years on the 1996 Fleetwood Brougham so far and I pulled that out or my ElDorado, so 10+ years, 4-5 years on her 11 CTS, I've only had my CTS for a little over 2 years. and it sounds slow but always starts. I have 100 amp chargers in the garage, cables in the cars and a portable USB power pack in my CTS.
All ACDELCO batts except for my CTS. I'm waiting for it to kick the bucked so I can put in an ACDELCO one.
I have noticed that the warranty period offered on batteries has gotten shorter and shorter the last 10 years.
The last battery I got for my Suburban was only a 5 year, as that's all that was offered. The one before that was a 9 year, or 108 month battery, and I actually got 8.5 years out of it before it failed.
Try to find a battery with that warranty now! Ain't gonna happen!
I swear it's a battle between companies to see who can get the most money for the shortest warranty.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on September 08, 2020, 02:24:20 PM
....... For those outside the USA if you want to look a map and tell us what part of the USA relates to your climate that will help us geographically challenged people know where you fit into the averages.
Down here on the 41st South Parallel, which would relate to the similar North Parallel as Indiana and across to Connecticut, my batteries, on the average last about 10 to 15 years.
The one in my Boat is 12 years old, and still going strong (Optima Marine) I disconnect that when not in use.
The secret is to use a Battery Tender for my Cadillac as it gets the least use, but has a constant current draw from the clock..
Bruce. >:D
I don't think use of the A/C has much bearing on battery life, least of all on Cadillacs after 1962 equipped with alternator instead of generator.
Eric,
What I was referring to was the load on the battery when cranking if the accessories were still turned on. That's a big strain on it if the compressor is engaged, the fan is on high, etc...
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 10, 2020, 09:03:53 AM
Eric,
What I was referring to was the load on the battery when cranking if the accessories were still turned on. That's a big strain on it if the compressor is engaged, the fan is on high, etc...
Wouldn't matter at least since early '70s as power to accessories and compressor is cut when ignition switch is in START position. Can't say how much earlier this also applies.
Quote from: Cadman-iac on September 10, 2020, 09:03:53 AM
Eric,
What I was referring to was the load on the battery when cranking if the accessories were still turned on. That's a big strain on it if the compressor is engaged, the fan is on high, etc...
What Eric says holds true to 1968 at least. Probably back to 1964 with the introduction of Climate Control. 1966 and earlier can't turn the compressor on while starting because the master (steamboat) switch controls the compressor as well.
I see what you mean. My point was just to cut the load on the battery and let it recoup for a half a minute or so as the alternator takes over and starts to recharge the battery.
It probably doesn't matter that much, it's just a habit I got into when I was still driving a vehicle with a generator on it. You know old habits die hard. Alternators pick up the load almost instantly, versus a generator that requires a specific rpm before it begins to charge.
I have told my wife to keep the accessories off before starting her car, (newer Buick), and don't leave the twilight sentinel on for longer than it needs to be.
The battery on her car sits under the rear seat, so it's not as easy to get at, for me anyway, and anything she can do to improve the life of it is a good idea.
Rick
I'm in Colorado and I've been getting at least 8 years out of most of my batteries. My truck and motorcycle are on battery tenders when they're not being used. My tractor sits in a shed for months at a time and I still at least 6+years out of it. My truck battery is currently 9 years old and it still turns over an 8.1L gm gas engine.