Hello all, greetings from Arizona. I have been reading and following IcebearLars's thread and didn't want to inject my questions in line.
I have had my Eldo since the 80's, bought in Houston TX and daily drove it for a bit and did NY and California road trips in it. Now that I am in my "forever home" and set up my "toy shop" i want to get the rig road ready again. It had a knock on throttle deceleration and low compression in cylinders so i knew it needed a rebuild.
On you tube https://www.youtube.com/@clasiccarsgrzegorz969 did a video on engine removal and splitting the engine from the tranny that gave me the confidence to do the pull.
My challenge is I took the long block to a local reputable rebuilder and the completed engine has some assembly required. In a different youtube i noticed an "oil slinger" on the crankshaft and realized i didnt have it in my box of take off's from the engine machine shop. Then in IcebearLars thread i see the oil dipstick tube (which is in my takeoff box) and it reminded me i should place that before installing the oil pan i think. So i need to clean it and install it.
I am hoping I can get "over the shoulder" validation as i complete the re- assembly since i had two random reminders. Since the machine shop took the complete engine less accessories these details are not in my memory. Like for my next step after cleaning the dipstick tube, does it go in from the top or bottom and how is it fastened.
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(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/dfd3_12-05-29.png)
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/out3_12-08-10.png)
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Can someone please offer details on the oil dipstick tube, how it is fastened and confirm you slide it in from the top please.
Also the "71" on the casting - does it mean it is a 1971 block in my 1975 car?
Did you take a picture of the tube installed when the pan was removed? Would come in real handy now. The tube installs from the top, it is a snug fit in the hole and that is what holds it in place, it must be installed before you put the oil pan on because once installed it has to be bent to clear the rotating assembly. A picture of the tube installed is in the shop manual --- in my '73 book it is on Page 6-96, Fig. 6-117. I realize your engine is a '75, but that is the best I can do. If you have the '75 manual it should be there in Section 6 and will be the same. The tube has a pressed out collar or neck (for lack of a better term on my part) that restricts its travel into the hole to the proper depth. Just to please myself, I smear a light coat of hi-temp silicone around the tube below the collar to facilitate installation and prevent any oil seepage. As I remember I used a #1 Phillips screwdriver (it fits in the tube) and lightly tapped the tube in, striking the top of the screwdriver handle with a hammer. Be careful bending the tube that you don't kink it, doesn't take too much of a bend, just be sure it clears the rotating assembly, use the pic in the shop manual as a guide.
As to the 7 and the 1, I don't know but would be willing to bet they, #1 - don't belong together (i.e. don't mean 71), and #2 - have nothing to do with the year of your engine.
Are both holes open or is one still blocked? If they are both open you also have to know which one is for the Eldo.
I suspect he meant a #3 philips screwdriver, #1 is pretty small. A 3's shank would be about right for a 3/8 tube.
I destroyed mine while removing it. Replaced it with a piece of 3/8 brake line. It was the steel type with the black coating on it. Ground the coating off most of it so it would fit and when the remaining coating hit it more or less locked it in. Left it long and adjusted the height by trimming some off based on filling and running the engine with 6 quarts.
With the Eldorado the Dipstick goes in the rearmost hole with a ball bearing used as a plug for the front hole.
When I fitted my new one, I used a sleeve (Longer) to act as a driving tool to seat the outer tube, and when inside the block, had to bend the inner part to clear the Main Bearing Cap, plus not too far as to foul the Crankshaft.
I found that I had to begin bending the tube when it was going in, as it was going to hit the Main Bearing Cap well before it was fully in. Image 47 and 48.
Bruce. >:D
PS. The ball was removed before the block went to the Machine Shop. It wasn't hard to punch out, or back in.
Thank you all. Yes one hole seems to have a ball bearing. I usually hit the project every weekend. Will update.
I see it now. For new, its $45 w/ shipping. Is it critical to use new vs reusing?
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/dipst04-03_19-51-07.png)
And can this nut be a zinc plated steel nut not grade 8? Use locktite?
I did not strip down the innards of the engine so I may not have all the takeoff parts. The front two hold down bolts of the pickup tube I sourced grade 8 flange bolts. (arrow should be on the other side threaded stud)
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/nutz59.png)
Doesn't really matter what nut it is, but simply follow the Assembly Directions, and Torque to 35 Lbs Ft. Nothing wrong with using Loctite.
Bruce. >:D
"I see it now. For new, its $45 w/ shipping. Is it critical to use new vs reusing?"
I don't see how you could reuse the old one, it has to go in from the top and then be bent. Doesn't seem to me it could be made straight enough to be driven out from inside the block. Remember, there is a "neck" (or "stop ring") on the tube so you can't drive it out (down) from the top.
Full(er) disclosure, I used a piece of stainless tube ordered from Aircraft Spruce & Supply on mine, just have to measure the length of the outside portion to the old neck (which won't be there on a plain piece of tubing) to make sure you get it the right length on the outside of the block --- that measurement is important to get an accurate oil level reading.
Not sure how the machine shop straightened it to get it out. I will clean it up and inspect it.
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/tube_18-19-07.png)
I managed to clean and reuse the dipstick:
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/dipstik2-18-38.png)
Two questions related to the trans seal and the distributor stud:
What size is the distributor stud? I may have years ago used a course nut on it:
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/crossthread_12-19-35.png)
For the transmission, so odd , with naked eye after some cleaning, and because some errant silicone cleaned off, I thought I was all set because seemed like silicone seal. But when i zoomed on the photos on my PC - sure looks like the cork gasket seal. So the consensus is now is the time to open it up, clean and use sealant to reassemble? Thanks in advance!
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/cork112-20-57.png)
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/cork2-21-31.png)
I was thinking the top side of the stud was a fine thread, block side may have been coarse.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on April 17, 2023, 06:05:40 PMI was thinking the top side of the stud was a fine thread, block side may have been coarse.
I bought one but it's too big so was hoping to know what i was shopping for size wise with out being taxed from mentioning Cadillac 500.
Also thinking through how to get the stud out, I suppose rethread the fine thread (i think i have that tool) and get two nuts on it and back it out?
5/16 UNC / UNF for distributor stud, unscrewed fine. ... thanks... my progress is slow.
To reinstall the Harmonic Balancer, is the crankshaft bolt 5/8-18? The installer bolt does not hand thread in but the machine shop may have damaged the outer thread with a puller.
I do not have a thread chaser that size/ thread count but i think I have a bolt i can improvise with a slot to repair if i was sure of size and thread count..
Thanks in advance.
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I believe it is 9/16-18
G'day Henry,
You have an email from the Moderators of this Forum that requires your attention.
Thanks,
Bruce. >:D
PS. While you have the cover off, check the condition of the two lower waterpump threads. If they are not perfect, reinforce the threads with a piece of steel, or a proper nut, Brazed or Silver Soldered to the cover. This way, you won't experience the problems of a stripped thread whilst replacing a water pump.
Hello again.
Yes the crank bolt was 9/16 - 18 , threads were dirty which caused the bolt resistance giving me doubts.
Can someone tell me if the front cover seal is set in from the front outside or from inside please.
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/solar/fcoc16-49-19.png)
From the outside.
One of the ways to see how an oil seal sits is to look at the angle of the inner lip of the seal. If it is pointing outside, then any internal oil pressure will allow the oil to leak out.
With the inner part of the seal pointing to the pressure side, any pressure will press on the seal, pushing the seal harder onto the shaft. Creating an even better seal.
Bruce. >:D
Perhaps you've already installed the hub but if not AutoZone has the correct tool available. You have to by the whole kit at about $40 use the tool and return it in good shape for a full refund.
I installed the harmonic balancer tonight. Please confirm it appears to be fully seated. The oil slinger seems firmly jammed in place. The machine shop removed it, not me, so i don't know if the gap on the nose is normal.
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/balgap1-08-11.png)
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/load-29.png)
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/slingseat34.png)
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/wpumpgap8-54.png)
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I alse have a follow up question as I start to button up the oil pan.
I used an o ring on the oil pickup tube expecting it to be the perfect seal but i see its squeezed out. Should that be a gasket here? Any part number or make one from material?
Thanks!!!!
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(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/uploads/oring253-47.png)
A colleague insisted i should have the oil pickup o ring inside the master gasket set box. And there is was. Along with the distributor gasket i was shopping for.
This oring seems more correct . I had a fatter rubber of the same diameter.
So what is the other smaller o ring for?
(https://bshifter.blob.core.windows.net/uploads/mgas6-43.png)
Mine measured .31" from end of the crank. Some insight may be available on a face book site called Cadillac 472/500.
Life has been getting in the way. Back to assembling the engine.
Those large block holes have me wondering if i have the correct gasket. Should I be concerned?
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/oil_01_17.png)
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/oil_207.png)
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/oil_35-31-51.png)
Have you seen this series of videos yet. I stumbled across them and found them very interesting regarding rebuilding a big block Caddy motor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS1-Aw-uaSQ
Hope they may be of some interest or help.
Dave
Those holes are normal. As long as the gasket covers the outside of the holes, it will be good.
These holes could be there for machining locating, or allowing machining deeper into the block.
Bruce. >:D
Hi all, Happy new Year.
When i had the pan open and I was placing the gaskets the rear rubber seal seemed to only go in one way in order for the "keys" to match up to the cork gasket. Now that it's installed I have a doubt if I got it right since there so much exposed.
Does anyone know for certain if i should pull the pan and reverse that rear rubber seal?
Thanks!
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/gasket7.png?se=2024-01-08T00%3A19%3A08Z&sig=ZW1BJiJO8NVJXPwWehvVqjwvl%2BTokL5TCWGA758A9%2Bw%3D&sp=r&sr=b&ss=2024-01-01T00%3A19%3A08Z&sv=2014-02-14)
Editing.. - i see this youtube and pretty sure i have it the same as he does:
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/pop2_17-35-33.png?se=2024-01-08T00%3A38%3A50Z&sig=iD%2F6q8lwC0uryevNQ%2BVkrqG5xpfQ80dqD5yuPEatvtI%3D&sp=r&sr=b&ss=2024-01-01T00%3A38%3A50Z&sv=2014-02-14)
Looks to me like you have the neoprene seal back to front.
There shouldn't be that much poking out.
Bruce. >:D
The tabs are offset which makes it fit only one way.this appears correct.
Greg Surfas
Thanks all... i searched in shop manual no detailed photos. I see another youtube video and that seems to match my results. I wonder if the exposed ribs help with some shielding when mounting up the transmission.
I also reached out to Fel Pro support.
I went back and did forensics on my earlier pictures. The shot below gives me "warm fuzzy" the seal is in correct based on seeing the photo with the key location and the mating surfaces make sense for my results.
My new years resolution is to get this car back on the road :).
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/cad500rear45-32.png)
(https://mfcmedia.blob.core.windows.net/test/oil_207.png)
Henry,
I think you might have just solved the problem. There are a lot of little surprises when viewing stuff that one never sees.
Next time I am under my '72, I will take notice of what is there, and take a picture, or three.
Bruce. >:D
The Cadillac factory engine blue thru 1976 was a dark navy.
'Old ford blue' is kinda close and more readily available in Duplicolor spray cans in local parts stores.
One of the images provided has a more correct blue. See image
https://por15.com/products/engine-enamel
Quote from: Richf1966 on January 02, 2024, 08:10:21 AMhttps://por15.com/products/engine-enamel
Understood. I did the original darker blue on some starting components and reconsidered and swapped out for what is more appealing to me - the lighter baby blue. Its not the oem color but i prefer it.
Just as an aside, that lighter blue is essentially the same color they used on the later 425 Motors
Greg Surfas
Hi all - continuing on my slow re-assembly.
For the intake manifold and the tin metal gasket pan. The shop manual states to :
1: Place rubber seals front and rear of cylinder block.
2: "Cement sheet metal gasket and shield on engine."
3: Position manifold w/ 10 screws and 2 studs to 30 ft lbs.
On step 2, a Youtuber recommended Permatex Aviation Form A Gasket Sealer. i have that an am ready to go.
For this step - is it critical to get every touch point of that metal pan contact points to be coated with sealer even over the rubber end seals or is the goal to be certain the area where the intake ports mate is well sealed.
And before step 3.. does the top side of the metal gasket stay dry or do you need to apply sealer on there too? And if so generous on all contact points or primarily where the ports mate?
Also can you please tell me where the two screw studs go vs bolts. I didn't disassemble it so I do not recall.
(https://amazonmodules.s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/yta8_14-20-30.jpg)
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THANK YOU!
Its been a while and the memory aint what it used to be but I think I just did a little RTV at the corners of the rubber gasket and the rest didn't get anything. Around the intake ports has a little bead rolled into the metal? That that basically gets crushed to form fit to any irregularities.
On my '72 500, the two bolts with the threads coming out of the hex head are shown in the picture.
From what I can gather with this engine, it was untouched, going on the things that I found whilst stripping it down for rebuilding.
One is two bolts back from the right front, and the other at the rear left end.
It looks like they have never been used, but when I put the engine back together, they went at the rear on both sides.
Bruce. >:D
Hi all,
I am cleaning up to place in the new CV's and I want to repack the wheel bearings. The outer seal is pretty crusty. I have new seals and bearings /races but if I can I am inclined to just repack and re assemble. My new bearings are "WJB / INMOTION " brand and I'm not sure of their reputation.
I think i need to pick up a harbor Freight press and use a bearing separator to get the left and right outer bearings off the hub? I should try get the separator under the bearing directly (A)? Any issue in getting the bearing off , inserting the outer seal and repressing the same bearing down?
The inner bearing and seals were not to hard to get out.
thanks in advance for tips and advice.
(https://amazonmodules.s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/wheelbearings-43-39.jpg)
Part of the bearing assembly are shims/spacers. The bearings are supposed to be sold as a factory preset pair with the proper amount of shims and spacers so there is the correct preload once they are installed. I would want to make sure I knew where those were and that they were not going to be damaged while trying to get them apart.
RockAuto still lists SKF and Timken bearings for these cars. Are those still what they used to be? Who knows at least the name sounds good.
If you want to give up and let someone else do the work I think there are still a couple of the GMC RV people around that as long as you let them know you want Eldorado parts will do an rebuild exchange on the whole knuckle and even control arm assembly.
Thanks. This project is also expanding my DIY skills and garage tools.. so I will try next step to get a press and try pull the bearing. The Arizona GMC motorhome place I knew of is now defunct. I had the car since the 80's but i did notice in the wheel bearing cover one side had 3 zinc bolts with star washers and the other grade 8 with 1 of 3 having a lock washer - so someone has been in there before me.
As for the control arm bushings... if i have success on the outer wheel bearings I might also do the control arm bushings since one has the rubber dropping out (it never ends).. I do have a GM tool for the torsion bar although I never used it - i bought it off ebay preemptively in case I ever undertook this job. I assume with the ball joint loose the arm unloads most of its spring? I need to read up on that.
NO! You need to unload the torsion bar before trying to break the lower joint. The lower joint carries the weight of the car. Either way, you still have to unload the side you're working on.
Reloading specs are in the FSM.
The bearing pressed out with a little persuasion.
A bit sketchy to use the bearing puller and arbor plates this way but it's all I had on hand.
The harbor freight MADDOX Front Wheel Drive Bearing kit had nothing in the right size for this car. For pressing out I had some stainless steel hand railing tube and for reassembly I was able to use some scrap 2" ABS pipe as a sleeve.
I can't imagine what the right tool was. A bearing puller arms would not have much space to get in and under the recessed area it is pressed into.
(https://amazonmodules.s3.us-west-1.wasabisys.com/press7-57-24.jpg)
Hello,
i think i misordered the left/passenger side output shaft seal.. is the correct part number NATIONAL 470088? But the product shot doesn't exactly look like the current seal. Thanks in advance.
Also for the drivers side output i have the skf 17736, as i understand it the part wont have a vent hold but the original will (?) can i just drill a hole in the seal casing?
Thanks in advance!
(https://hazready.blob.core.windows.net/autoparts/pasenger_17-35-15.jpg?se=2024-11-11T00%3A40%3A47Z&sig=xaIUoeyctb70kre1n2JlMBFN%2FXnX8O832CwZ0Xo4c%2BM%3D&sp=r&sr=b&ss=2024-11-04T00%3A40%3A47Z&sv=2014-02-14)