Hi all - I've got a long-neglected 1967 Coupe DeVille, and among other things I need/want to investigate are HVAC, AM/FM, fuel/temp gauges, replace rusted gauge faces, and who knows what else.
Grounding the fuel sender wire (by the license plate) didn't work, and extracting the gauge cluster is the next step, and that states to begin by "remove upper dash", I'm thinking that'd be a logical move (vs trying to access anything from underneath).
Reading what I just wrote, the answer seems obvious. Just looking for any "gotchas" to be aware of beforehand. I do have the FSM, and hope its instructions will be adequate.
I found the instructions in the shop manual to be correct and helpfull. That being said, some things are still fiddely (the windshield is in the way) so you still have to be a bit of a contortionist.
Be carefull when you remove the whole cluster. The plastic becomes quite brittle.
Some things are pretty easy (like removing the headlight switch for example). But the clock is a challenge. Also be aware of the wide connector in the middle which powers everything in the instrument cluster. It should slide off quite easily but be careful not to damage it.
Good luck!
Thanks Julien. I've had this thing for eight or nine months, and after getting it to run/stop/start/steer, am struggling to figure out just how to proceed. Not a fan of taking things apart multiple times, so I'm trying to get all the mechanical/electrical nonsense sorted efficiently before dealing with paint and body and interior.... so this looks like a logical next step.
Please take some pictures. I have a 67 SDV with rusty gauges. I have a new set but have been putting off changing them
I don't know anything about the 1967 CDV, but if there are any of the small vacuum hoses under the dash, I would replace all of them while the dash is off. Same goes for the A/C and defroster outlet hoses, if they are OEM hoses. You might want to consider replacing all of the gauge illumination bulbs as well as the turn signal bulbs and any other bulbs that are more accessible with the dash pad removed.
Daryl Chesterman
Quote from: badpoints on July 17, 2023, 06:22:54 PMPlease take some pictures. I have a 67 SDV with rusty gauges. I have a new set but have been putting off changing them
Did you get a "new" cluster? I checked around a little and didn't find any that looked any better than what I have (and at eye-watering prices), so I'll be using some ebay faces. I hear everyone cringing, but this car is kind of a hackjob lowrider project, not a restoration candidate.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/381684740165?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=ASuE1wQvDGi33kPWiw4XbQ6rX2mV3jCrhb9kescZeJxd9QQptXJEH3X9Ie8
They offer a wide variety of different colors (not a fan of white) for about double the price.
I have not taken the instrument cluster apart. But is it not possible to disassemble it so that you have access to the back plate? Is it possible (although I assume also very time consuming) to carefully sand that back plate and then repaint it with flat black (and then repaint the numbers with white paint?
I did a quick search on youtube, and found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrXHN-AAWzk
Just my two cents.
I bought the cluster with all the gauges from e-bay, it is in perfect shape. I bought it 19 years ago right before my twin sons were born.
My slightly rusty cluster looks better than some for sale on e-bay for $450. Mine only has rust around the idiot lights and the gas gauge.
Quote from: Julien Abrahams on July 19, 2023, 02:59:43 AMI have not taken the instrument cluster apart. But is it not possible to disassemble it so that you have access to the back plate? Is it possible (although I assume also very time consuming) to carefully sand that back plate and then repaint it with flat black (and then repaint the numbers with white paint?
I did a quick search on youtube, and found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrXHN-AAWzk
Just my two cents.
A zillion years ago, I knew a fella who resprayed badges with recessed text. He'd spray the whole thing the highlight (nonrecessed) color, let it dry, then spray the whole thing the accent (recess) color and then quickly wipe it off facedown on newspaper. Worked great. For him. The one time I tried that it was a colossal mess.
Given how picky I know I am, no way do I want to try to paint the numbers and tickmarks... plus, it wouldn't be chrome, so would just bug the you know what out of me.
Seller has a ton of different styles available.
https://www.ebay.com/str/whitegauges/Style-1/_i.html?store_cat=19602092
Kinda partial to the metallic gold (ought to work nicely on a lowrider-lite).
Hi all - https://i.imgur.com/9u8SBF4.jpg (manual page)
(https://i.imgur.com/hCWrYO7l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TtRe3cXl.jpg)
Getting the top dash off was easy. That was the extent of the easy stuff.
(https://i.imgur.com/YgLWD0Cl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gLltLCSl.jpg)
Well, the lower dash cover was easy too. So was the shift indicator.
(https://i.imgur.com/a3ni4e7l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8TVomLHl.jpg)
The little screws that attach the bezel to the cluster were fun. One (guessing original assembly) was crushed into the plastic, and I couldn't get a wrench on it without chipping some of the plastic away. The lower left cluster-to-bezel screw galled on its way out, which was (super not) fun to wrestle with.
(https://i.imgur.com/wSyQSX9l.jpg)
Speedo cable was really awkward, as was the main panel electrical connector (which needed a squeeze to unhook).
(https://i.imgur.com/vXNP21Dl.jpg)
Wound up fishing the entire left side dash duct out of the way to get access to speedo cable, and unbolting the headlight switch to get some access to that last screw. Honestly, I'm thinking I'll just leave that one screw out on reassembly.
You can see the top of the duct elbow here - hard to get a picture of...
(https://i.imgur.com/LxtTEgel.jpg)
But it's out! Will troubleshoot gauges and so forth tomorrow.
(https://i.imgur.com/1ZNeJ0wl.jpg)
How much more work to remove the bezel from the dash, anyone know? From the FSM just looks like a couple of brackets underneath: one by the ignition switch and another by the light switch... unbolted those two, but it's still stuck pretty solidly. Guessing maybe radio/HVAC/ashtray are part of the puzzle.
Would be nice to clean it up and repaint the black on it, but if too big a job I could do it in situ.
Gauges worked swimmingly on bench! Clock even ticked a little bit (but irregularly). After consulting my wife (boss/artist) went with maroon/black gauge faces. I wanted gold/white, but she poo-pooed that.
Temp sender is dead (something like 900 ohm cold, 9000 ohm hot), so ordered a new one (genuine Delco). Traced fuel wire back to where it dives under the backseat, was fine. At this point suspecting dodgy body connector... Couldn't find where it comes out in the trunk or under car, and called it a day.
Nice to get some progress. Just moving this thing forward and back (and up and down) in my garage, I really appreciate the heft and majesty... sort of at odds with the quarts of seam sealant slathered in every panel join. I get that it's sound dampening, but man, it's ... uncouth to be so inefficient.
This is a great tutorial, thanks, Kyle.
I'm having trouble getting the main panel electrical connector out. Any tips from those who have been there?
Haven't got the speedo cable, but not looking forward to that either.
Also top screws are easy, as is the bottom one near the glove box. The other two (one is supposed to be under the clock, the other on the outboard end). Any tips on those?
According to the FSM, that's all that needs to be removed in order to get the thing out. Is that right?
Thanks again for Kyle for giving me the confidence (or delusion) to try replacing my nasty speedo faceplate!
Joe
Hey Joe - what I did on reassembly was pull the bezel out (needed paint and cleanup anyway). In hindsight, should have done that first. Would have saved the misery of getting the connector, speedo, and bottom screws out, since that'd give enough room to access all from behind.
https://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=172793.msg545298#msg545298
If you want to leave bezel in place, the lower left screw is accessible up and behind the headlight switch. Either unbolt the switch (two long-bodied screws, 1/4 heads IIRC) so you can get in the headlight switch hole, or lay on the floor (head down by brake pedal) and fish upward with a longish extension and universal.
I was able to reach the one under the clock without too much trouble, can't recall the angle of attack.
Main panel connector is hard to deal with. Try pushing in one side latch by itself to get a feel for it, then do the other. It's a pretty high-friction interface.
Speedo cable was a pain, on par with the galled lower-left screw. I think I used an open-end wrench to depress the locking tabs.
Reassembly with the bezel out was much much easier.
Thanks a lot, Kyle.
I'll try loosening the bezel and see it that helps with the two screws that are giving me trouble.
The new faceplate I bought still had the electrical connector attached, so I know what I'm dealing with there. Just can't figure out how to depress both sides at the same time with so little room. I've been trying to think of some kind of tool that would help, but nothing has occurred to me yet.
Appreciate your help! Joe
I'd not expect loosening the bezel to help much, I had the right side lifted up and over the dash assembly while putting the cluster in.
For that big connector, I was able to manhandle it pretty easily once I knew what I was doing. Might be able to GENTLY pry one side in with something appropriate (wooden spoon handle maybe) while pushing the other by hand.
Just an update..Got the electrical connector and speedometer cable off....don't ask how, not sure I can say, just wresteled them into submission. Only the screw on the ourboard bottom stands between me and success, and I'll tackle that today. Got the rubber duct out, still haven't been able to get the headlight switch out yet, or figure out how to get access that last blasted screw! Thanks!
Ok...time to celebrate...I got it out!
I deciced to try and take it out without removing the headlight switch.
After I took out the rubber AC ducting, I was able to see the blasted screw that remained between me and satisfaction. I tried and tried, and finally called my neighbor, who was able to get the screw out with a tiny rachet he had.
Pain in the ass, but hopefully worth it if I can get everything back together.
Thanks a lot Kyle...wouldn't have done it without your tutorial.
Only thing I would add is that you can remove the last screw from up top without dealing with the headlight switch if you chose to go that route.
One last question, Kyle. Were you able to reuse the gasket that goes around the edge between the cluster and the clear plastic front? Mine fell to bits when I took it apart. I suppose its not really necessary, but making something out of foam or even black paper might prevent squeaks or other noises, which I suppose is the point.
Thanks again! Joe
Hey Kyle,
Got the dash put back together, but when I attached the "multiple connector" weird things happen. I tested it before reinstalling it and everything seemed to work right.
But, after I installed it, the dash lights stay on no matter what position the headlight switch is in. Just occurred to me...could this have something to do with the Twilight Sentinel sensor? Also crusie light stays on and the bright light indicator does too. The temperature gauge works, but not the fuel. Both worked before I installed the dash.
After looking at the FSM, I became convinced that I had the plug in upside down, as it says the Key should be facing up. I assumed they meant the extra piece of of plastic between ports 10 & 11. But, this clearly wrong, as the plug can only go in the hole one way, and that extra bit is on the bottom...WTF...LOL.
Seems like I may have some kind of grounding issue. I don't recall any extra ground wire when I took the dash out. Any thoughts? Thanks, Joe
OK, a little update. The donor faceplate came with a printed circuit. When I cleaned everything, I lost track of which one was originally in my car, and which one came from the donor (a '68, Fleetwood, I think). The circuits looked the same, but I gather they are not. So, I pulled it out and swapped the printed circuit. Now the dash lights seem to work OK, but the trunk warning light stays on all the time when the lights are off. Temp gauge works but gas is not working. I know the gauge is good. If its not one damn thing, its another!
Quote from: joeinbcs on October 12, 2023, 08:36:08 PMOne last question, Kyle. Were you able to reuse the gasket that goes around the edge between the cluster and the clear plastic front? Mine fell to bits when I took it apart.
Same here, mine flaked into many many pieces. I ignored it for reassembly, just used a little latex caulk where the pushpins go through to keep it snug.
Quote from: joeinbcs on October 19, 2023, 04:44:20 PMGot the dash put back together, but when I attached the "multiple connector" weird things happen.
Glad you got the change in PCB figured out, that would have made me cuckoo!
Quote from: joeinbcs on October 19, 2023, 04:44:20 PMbut the trunk warning light stays on all the time when the lights are off. Temp gauge works but gas is not working. I know the gauge is good. If its not one damn thing, its another!
Is the trunk open? That circuit has power all the time. Unaffected by headlight switch. If on when trunk is closed, check for ground on the multi-connector (don't know color offhand, but it's in the FSM). That would indicate the switch is stuck closed or the wire is shorted to ground somewhere. **note** I may have my positive/negative reversed, so check the manual to be sure.
Did your gas gauge work with the old cluster? My sender was bad.
Hey Kyle,
In the ongoing saga...
I realized I had the wrong printed circuit.
Took the dash out again and cleaned the original printed circuit.
Bench tested and everything worked.
Installed again. Now everything works except both the temp and gas gauges and the clock.
All were working before.
Seems I might have a grounding issue? I haven't found where in the FSM the multiconnector is discussed except for removal of the dash.
Thanks, Joe
Just in case anybody else does this, I made a little diagram of Circuit board connections that was helpful to me, maybe someone else will find it useful. Joe
It's in the section on gauges, there's a pinout and more. Layout of the FSM is a little disjointed, things you think should be next to each other aren't.
Did you verify that the gauges worked on the bench after swapping the circuit using the contacts for the multiconnector? Oh, and see if you blew a fuse!
Took the dash out again and swapped the fuel and temp gauges. Reinstalled, and everything, even the clock, worked. Then, when I started the screws on the top (3), I would get almost tight and everything stopped. I now think I have a problem with either the printed circuit, or maybe the multiple plug. Something must be shorting out somewhere.
I saw that OPGI sells repro circuit boards, but they say "expect Eldorado". Curious if anyone has used one of these. The dash internals are exactly the same between all Cadillac models in '67 as far as I can tell.
Anyone have any idea why one of these would not work in an Eldorado?
Thanks, Joe
So...The dash is finally back in the car and everything, including the clock, works.
It was a real headache. I had to remove and reinstall it about half a dozen times. Finally attached an additional ground and that did the trick.
I did end up with a couple extra parts..always disconcerting.
Anyone know what these belong to? I don't recall removing them, and the just appeared on the floor at some point.
Thanks, Joe
Those parts are looking like shims to adjust the alignment of front fenders or something else. Maybe they were used to align the dash.
"Maybe they were used to aligh the dash."
My thought also.
Sorry, I should have included some info about the size.
hello,
So maybe clips for fixing windshield moldings or window seals?