Hello All,
Unable to investigate further until the weekend, but due to a sudden power steering leak, I believe the power steering pressure line went today on my 76 Fleetwood Brougham (500ci). It looks like the line is available on Rock Auto. Is replacing the line something that should be taken care of at a shop, or is this something that can be taken care of in the driveway with a couple of line wrenches? If it is something that could be taken care of at home, is it pretty easy and straightforward, or could it turn into a basket of headaches? Thanks in advance for any input and advice.
-Dan
I don't know that car specifically but generally in this era its not too bad of a job. They can be a little stubborn to get loose. I find the easiest way to do it is to cut the old line close enough to the nut and use a socket. Going back on they usually don't need to be so tight you need flare nut wrenches but it doesn't hurt to have them and or some crowfoots.
If yours has rear disc I think you get hydroboost like the Eldo's so you have 2 high pressure lines and the low pressure return line. Might as well get em all done at the same time.
It is a DIY and very easy. I changed the high-pressure one on mine in about 30 minutes. While you are at it, replace the low-pressure hose too.
Tim
Thanks TJ, thanks Tim for the responses. Just figured out today that it is the PS pump itself leaking pretty good from the front near the bottom. Managed to get my phone in there and get a shot of a drip coming out. Pic is attached. It squirts out if turning the steering wheel. I guess it's time for a new pump, and while doing that replace pressure line or lines. I'll have to pull a back tire to see if it's disc or drum, but if it's drum, does that mean I don't have hydroboost and there would be just two lines to deal with? Thanks again!
-Dan
If its the regular system you will have that usual big round drum thing between the brake master cylinder and firewall and it will have a vacuum line running to the engine. Power steering line will be fairly short and just run from the pump to the steering box which is fairly close to the pump.
If you have the hydroboost the usual round drum thing won't be there. Instead will be a smaller mechanism with 3 power steering lines going to it. If you follow the hose out of the PS pump it will first run up to the booster then another line runs from the booster to the steering box. Both the booster and box will have their own return lines so the PS pump will have 2 return ports so 3 lines in total.
Eldo rear disc was standard and meant you also got the hydroboost. I'm not sure if it was standard or optional on the Fleetwood but I think it also got the hydro if it got the disc. Seville I think had standard disc but got the vacuum booster. Deville only got vacuum boost and rear drums.
I may be wrong, but I don't think the Fleetwood Brougham offered rear disc as an option. My books say front disc with rear drums.
Tim
I'm not a Fleetwood guy either just seems like I remember when looking for rear disc or hydro boost parts at some point seeing some years FLeetwood listed. Figured it was worth mentioning just in case he had it he could hopefully get the right parts first try.
I change out those hoses about every 2 decades. I
believe the return (low pressure) hose is just a
cut section of generic power steering hose. I
have never worn out a power steering pump of that
era. Bruce Roe
I can't remember if its the GM stuff or others from the era but I think it was common to see the return line still crimped like a high pressure line at the steering box but then it just slides on a nipple at the pump.
If you are working on something where it is just 'regular' hose DO NOT USE FUEL LINE. Most fuel line doesn't react well with hydraulic fluids and will turn to goo in a fairly short period of time. If you don't have a source for actual hydraulic return hose which shops that deal with such things just keep on rolls in bulk you can buy still usually buy 'transmission cooler hose' at parts stores by the foot.
Hello All,
As always thank you for the input and advice. My plans are to order a PS pump and pressure line from RockAuto. Now my brother in law is telling me to just take off the original and rebuild it. He says it's just some o-rings that need replacing. Is there any truth to this? If so, is it a pain in the a** to rebuild a PS pump? Would it require special tools? Thanks.
-Dan
The pump itself rarely seem to have issues other than the seal leaking. The reservoir often leaks and its just O rings sealing it to the pump. Most common leaks these days seem to be on 'rebuilt' units. The reservoirs often get damaged by people prying on them trying to tension the belts and then who knows what sort of abuse they are exposed to removing them and in the 'rebuild' process.
Thanks TJ. From your earlier response, I was able to determine I do not have hydroboost. I'm just going to order a new PS pump and move on. While tackling this project, I am going to replace the belts, hoses and alternator. Rock Auto has different choices in amps when ordering an alternator. Belts have amp choices, too. Choices are 61, 63 or 80 amp. How do I know which amp alternator to order. Thanks.
-Dan
1976 Fleetwood Brougham
500ci
I would not replace the alternator if its working. Both the new and rebuilt ones these days seem to be pretty questionable quality. 63 seems to be the most common alternator by far. Not sure what they are talking about with a 61. The 80 is physically a bit larger and has kinda a bump out the back that has the small connector on it and the power terminal is kinda in a recess. The 63 the back is fairly flat.
Dan,
Most all GM alternators are stamped with the amperage on the case. I don't remember if it's the front or back half, but it should be fairly easy to see. If it's a 63 Amp alternator, the stamping will read 63A, likewise, an 80 Amp one would be stamped 80A.
Rick
As noted, if your alternator is working leave it be. If and when it quits working you are usually much better off having your old one rebuilt by a local auto electric shop. You know it fits, you know it is correct and IF there is a problem later you have a local contact to fix it. Most everything these days is from "somewhere outside the U.S." and it is a crap-shoot as to what you will get, even with names you are familiar with like Delco-Remy, Delphi (all made in China now), etc., etc.
Thank you for the responses. I will leave the alternator be. Is there a way to tell if the alternator on it is the original?
Here are a couple pics of the alternator. Does the FL stamped on it or the yellow mark mean anything?
1976 Fleetwood 500ci
Pretty sure that is the 63. Some of the originality experts will have to chime in if that yellow mark or FL was some sort of factory marking. Junkyards usually use yellow paint markers but they usually have their own 'brand' like you would put on cattle to identify it as coming from their yard for the warranty. A long line isn't much of a brand if it is one.
The stuff that looks like black dust is a possible concern. That could be from the brushes inside. Its normal for those to wear but I don't recall seeing that much dust on the outside before. If that is all brush material there can't be much left so this may need a rebuild.
This style is called a 10si if you want to look for a rebuild kit and try this on your own. I would not use ever part of the kit only what was for sure bad.
Thanks TJ. Going to keep the existing alternator and have it rebuilt. I did order a new PS pump from Rock Auto. Lares is the brand name. Don't know if that's good or bad, but I'm going to keep the one I take in case it can be rebuilt down the line.
P.S. I had no idea that the black dust was an indicator. Thanks for that observation.
-Dan
1976 Fleetwood 500ci
You usually don't see that with alternators. Generators yes but that is because much more current is flowing through them and they are laid out kinda like cobblestones so there are edges and gaps that cause just a little more wear than what you get on an alternator where the brushes are riding on a continuous ring.
Maybe its not from the brushes but they are right in that area and its not the general grime oil color so I'm not sure what else it would be. Belt dust? Sucking through the fan and landing there?
Someone else recently had major issues with rebuilt power steering pumps and I thought Lares was one of the ones involved in his saga but I could be mixing that up with another thread. Lares used to be a good name but seems like most things they aint what they used to be.
Thanks TJ.
If I were to go the new alternator route vs. rebuilding, would installing an 80amp instead of a 63amp make any differences, either good or bad?
-Dan
Going to the 80 would require the correct apparently rare bracket or some custom work to make it fit. If you want something in theory slightly better but looks different you can get one for an 84 Cimarron.
The Cimarron used the next generation 12si series that among other things has a little better cooling setup than the 10si which is why it has the different looking fan. The rear mounting hole is in a different spot so the rear mount won't align but it otherwise bolts in fine. Not having the rear bolt doesn't seem to hurt anything.
I'm not sure if the wiring was sized for the 80 or if it will technically be undersized for a 78. That is something that needs to be considered when making changes like this.