An acquiaintance of mine approached me a while ago to ask whether I could get his '66 Eldorado back on the road. It had been sitting in a barn since 1997. It had been his fathers whose intention it was to get it back on the road after he retired. Unfortunetaly, a couple of months after he retired (last year) he passed away.
So, we pulled it out of the barn last week (luckily it had been put on jack stands and the brakes where not locked up). And now it sits in my garage waiting to be brought back to life. It is a California car, so it has the AIR pump.
The engine can be turned by hand (by using the fan and a thumb on the fan belt). And I have made two complete revolutions.
I checked most electrical things and found a couple of things. Amonng other things: the seat does not want to move, the top does not work, one of the driver side tail light bulbs is out, driver side high and low beam do not work, pass side power vent window does'nt work. Low oil pressure warning light does not work (connected it directly to ground, and then the light comes on, so I believe that the oil pressure switch has died.
Also on the carb (Carter I think) the choke is stuck open, the vacuum advance diaphragm has deceased, of course all belts and all rubber hoses need to be replaced. The keys only fit on the ignition lock, not the doors. The lock cylinder from the trunk and the glove box are missing (managed to open the trunk with a long screwdriver).
To be safe I also am going to replace the brakes (wheel cilinders, shoes, master cylinder (?) and the brake lines. Also the fuel lines have seen better days so I will be replacing those too.
I bumped the starter and the engine turns over (although I think I need to clean all terminals because the cables get pretty warm after running the starter for a second or 2.
There are also positive things. Windows kind of work, dash lights work, indicators and right headlights work, brake and back up lights also work.
I am sure I will have many questions in the future,but for now I have a few:
Would you replace the master brake cylinder (I have seen rebuild (or new?) ones on Rockauto?
If I will replace the Master cylinder, I will also replace the brake lines (both soft and hard).
I have attached a photo of the master cylinder. Am I correct in assuming this is a Delco Moraine unit?
What about the fuel pump? Replace or leave it as is and just see if it will work?
How to best clean the inside of the gas tank? I assume that the car was parked with some fuel in it althoug I hear nothing sloshing when I sit in the trunk for example.
And I already dropped one small screw that holds the ignition points to the distributor. For about an hour I tried to find it but I could not. As these screws have different thread I cannot go to the local home depot and get a replacement (I am in the Netherlands). So if anyone has a couple of these screws lying around, that would be fantastic. I made 2 pictures of the other screw
In conclusion: Tips and tricks are more than welcome to get this Eldo back on the road.
P.s.
I added a couple of pictures, but I am not sure if they are in the right orded.
More of a "cave find" than a barn find!
Looks like the master cylinder is done for.
26 years of sitting? Every single thing must be gone through. The usual drill for bringing back a great old Caddy like this one.
Id rebuild the carb right off the bat and add an electric fuel priming pump as a backup.
Id replace all the lines and hoses.
Spray lithium grease on all door and hood hinges. Hood hinges without lube will deteriorate––doors and hood are very heavy.
After flushing the tank and changing ALL the fluids, Id add a pint of Marvels to the oil and drive it for awhile. This will get rid of sludge and free up anything in the heads thats possibly stuck. Marvels in the gas is a Caddy's best friend.
Inspect oil pan and tranny pan.
Add Marvels to the spark plug holes and let it sit overnight before starting up. Just a precaution for stuck rings. Rotate crank assembly a few times.
Inspect / replace spark plugs. New wires would be a great idea.
Inspect distributor. Clean points & do tune up kit. Or use Pertronix and a new coil for a hotter spark. The condensers nowadays are a problem with point sets, old ones have deteriorated, new ones are junk. Other members can chime in on this.
A new 75 or 100-amp alternator would be good insurance.
The brakes will need servicing. Do that first!
I would sand blast the wheels and paint them before putting on the wheel covers.
5 new tires. Tires only last ten years. The rubber breaks down.
Pressure wash the engine bay so you can find leaks and problems easier.
The big deal will be all the electrics. If this garage had no dehumidifier, then I would inspect everything. You might have to clean many of them. Inspect fuse box for corrosion.
I have 2 Caddies with 429s. I would inspect the troublesome aluminum timing cover and replace the plastic chain with a steel one. This part needs to be in 100% working order. I believe the oil pump is connected to this assembly as well. Fix the low oil pressure light too.
Ect, ect. Others can chime in, Im just a hack!
You can change the oil and all that, but stop turning that engine while dry. Pull the distributor and retrieve the lost screw. Then proceed to fog the cylinder walls with lube via the spark plug holes and go on to prime the oiling system while the dist. is out. If you don't know the procedure for this, google. Someone will help you here for specifics on that engine.
If you convert the points you won't need the screw.
When replacing parts, I would opt for rebuilding originals when possible. Brake parts, fuel pumps, water pumps etc are made in China today and quality is dubious.
Yes expect to replace all the pipes under the car: fuel,
exhaust, and brakes, along with all cylinders. I have
done as much on cars newer than that. And be certain
the original timing chain set (plastic time bomb) has
been replaced.
It has a switch pitch transmission, make sure that is
performing properly, or improve it with an electronic
control. Bruce Roe
You have a big project ahead of you. Don't try to tackle severals thing at the same time. This is my suggestion on how to begin the project, at least the way I do it on an old car.
1. Remove the fuel tank (soak the nuts/bolts on the straps), remove the fuel sender unit, have the inside of the
tank steam cleaned, seal the inside of the fuel tank (Eastwood Tools has sealer & kits. call for advice),
install new fuel sender o-ring and new fuel hose from tank to metal lines. Replace hose from steel line to fuel
pump.
2. Install a low pressure fuel pump near the fuel tank is a good idea. I power off the ignition switch to a
pressure switch teed into the oil pressure fitting. That way the pump only runs when the engine has oil
pressure.
3. Remove the spark plugs and squirt a couple pumps of oil, Marvel Mystery oil, or ATF into the cylinders with a
pump oil can. Rotate the engine a couple of turns to distribute the oil. Reinstall the spark plugs.
4. Drain the oil and replace the oil and filter with a cheap filter and oil.
5. Remove the oil pressure sender and install a mechanical oil pressuere guage. Rotate the engine to TDC #1 cyl,
Mark the dist & timing cover. Mark rotor position on side of dist. Remove the distributor. Use a drill to drive
the oil pump and see if it builds pressure. Look in the valve covers and see if oil is at the rockers. If OK,
proceed. If not, fix the oil pressure issue.
6. Remove the carb and if you can, disassemble, clean, and reassemble. There will probably be crud in the float
bowl. Remove the jets, air bleeds, power valve, etc., watch where the check balls go and the size. Blow out all
the passages with compressed air. If the accelerator pump has a leather cup, put some oil on it and some oil in
the pump cavity. You will probably need to replace the choke vacuum break. Take the float and put it in a
tupper ware container, inatall the lid, fill with fuel and let sit for a couple of weeks. It should float. After
removing, if a brass float shake it and listen for fuel sloshing in the float. Install a new fuel filter. If you
installed and electric fuel pump, leave the fuel line off, turn the pump on and run some fresh fuel up to the
carb and into a container. Connect the fuel line to the carb. Check for leaks at the mechanical fuel pump.
7. Install new points, condenser, rotor, and vacuum advance in the dist, and reinstall the dist. Make sure the
marks on the dist and timing cover and dist and rotor align.
8. If not done already, clean all the B+ and B- connection to the engine, body, and starter.
9. Install the new cap and wires, spray some choke/mass air flow sensor cleaner or pour a little fuel into the carb
and crank the engine. Don't crank more than 10-20 seconds at a time. It should atart and run.
10 Watch your oil pressure and coolant level. If OK, let it run a little bit and then shut off.
11. If it runs OK with no engine noise or bad misses, remove the spark plugs, perform a compession test and if OK,
install new pluge and wires. You have verified that the engine is in driveable conditon and you have something
to work with.
12. I would now remove the front cover and install a steel timing set, preferably a roller chain.
13. Put the timing cover back on, change the oil and filter, start the engine, set the timing, and adjust the carb.
14. Now, clean and flush the radiator, engine, and heater core. Back flush the heater core and radiator. Check the
several post about overheating on how to do this. I posted on a couple how I do it with great success.
The next project is the brakes and then the electrical system. Don't get discouraged, take you time, and enjoy the project. It will take quit some time.
Good luck! Keep us informed of your progress and if any questions or not sure of something, just ask before you jump in the deep end.
Thank you mr. Lamb for the long and exhaustive reply. I appreciate it a lot.
And yes, it is a whole lot of work and to be honest I am a little bit overwhelmed because this is my first project of this magnitude. Having rebuild two carbs I am quite confident that that will something I can do and also will enjoy. Same goes for the brakes. I will look for a master cylinder kit so I can put new seals in when it is time to address the braking system.
I was planning to start with removing the gas tank and see if I can find a shop nearby that can clean it. In the meantime remove spark plugs and put some transmission oil down each cylinder. And then take it from there.
My 67 sat for 25 years with me just starting it once or twice a year. I dropped the tank and it was clean inside
I don't know what they are called in the Netherlands, but here in the USA, any tractor dealer/repair shop will have a Hotsy high pressure/high temperature washer to clean the tractors. This works great to get everything cleaned out. When your remove the retaining ring for the fuel sender, you should be able to see the condition inside of the tank. If it is not badly crudded up, you maybe able be to put a bunch of cleaning product like Simple Green and water in the tank, let it set awile, and rinse it out. Even if the tank is very clean looking, I would call Eastwood or find a source close to you and get a product designed to seal the gas tank seams and any pin holes that may develope. It is just cheap insurance.
I may have forgotten to mention to spray choke cleaner through each and every passage of the carb after you soak the carb pieces in carb cleaner. Then blow air through them. Before you remove the carb idle mixture screws count the turns in to bottom and when you reassemble the carb, turn the screws to bottom and back out the same number of turns.
I have a Delco Line 9 manual that if you have problems with adjustment specs and your carb still has the carb number tag on it, I can probably provide you the adjustment specs.
Julien,
As you've mention, the listing by other CLC members is both important and necessary. Safety first, then making certain NOT to damage or compromise many of the systems that require careful preparation to put back in service. My advice regarding electrical/ mechanical issues follows:
Windows, power seat, power top are all controlled by high amperage switches. Over decades, the contract surfaces collect power robbing oxidation and without a careful cleaning of those internal switch parts, the seat or window, or top motors won't move. Additionally, all of the mechanical moving parts on these items need, at the very least, some lubrication, as they are likely stuck or are dragging against their respective motors --- these parts need to be freed up and not forced to operate... as you mentioned, some of your windows move, but very slowly. The 55 year old grease on the window regulator tracks need to be cleaned off, and new lubrication needs to be applied. James
Great addition, James!
On many of the older GM vehicles with power windows a large spring is in the window regulator. Check yours before you attempt to remove a window motor from the regulator to clean and lube the mechanism. If you pull the motor out, the regulator becomes a large cutting device on your hand. If your regulator has this large spring, use a pair of Vise Grips to lock the regulator from collapsing. Use either white lithium grease or if it is available the best is white lithium with PTFE. After freeing up, use on all the pivot points and slides. Just use spray silicon in the glass channels.
Quote from: Chopper1942 on September 27, 2023, 03:01:05 PMOn many of the older GM vehicles with power windows a large spring is in the window regulator. Check yours before you attempt to remove a window motor from the regulator to clean and lube the mechanism. If you pull the motor out, the regulator becomes a large cutting device on your hand. If your regulator has this large spring, use a pair of Vise Grips to lock the regulator from collapsing. Use either white lithium grease or if it is available the best is white lithium with PTFE. After freeing up, use on all the pivot points and slides. Just use spray silicon in the glass channels.
Larry, What do you recommend using to dissolve the old grease?
Brake Cleaner is about the safest to use. We used to use a parts cleaner called Stanasolv, but it is pretty toxic by todays standards. There is still some petroleum solvents available, but they are expensive. Spray it with brake cleaner and use a toothbrush to scrub off the old grease.
CAUTION
Whatever you do, do not use Brakleen (Brake Cleaner) anywhere around heat, as it will kill you. Plus, use it in a well-ventilated area.
Bruce. >:D
Bruce, you are correct.
This applies to all petroleum cleaners: carb cleaner, mass air flow cleaner, propane for setting mixtures/starting vehicles. etc.
Almost everything we us to clean parts is explosive as a vapor or flammable and unless used in a well ventilated area should not be used where there is pilot lights or flame heaters.
Since I've been in the business for so long and automatically use PPE's when working, I often forget that most of the people reading this forum information do not have the knowledge to protect themselves. I ALWAYS wear safety glasses and nitrile gloves when working on or around a vehicle.
When grinding, using air tools, shop vac, etc. I put on ear muff style hearing protection and a face shield in addition to the safety glasses.
Any time I use an aerasol product, petroleum products, paint, or anything generating dust, and especially working on brakes I wear a resperator with the proper cartridges (dust & VOC). A dust mask will not protect you.
The PPE's (personal protection equipment) are protecting you from cumulative health issues, except for the eye protection which can be immediate.
Let's look at each one.
1. Safety glasses and/or a face shield are worn at all times. Nothing like getting a piece of steel, wire from a
wire brush, piece of rust, or debris from blowing off parts with air. Been there & done that!
2. Hearing protection - most of the time. Any time around or using air tools, air compressor, shop vac, loud music,
ect. Hearing loss is cumulative and you won't know until later in life.
3. Nitrile gloves should be worn at all times. Your skin absorbs chemicals and vapors it comes in contact with.
Almost everything we use on a vehicle is harmful to us. A bonus is they also keep your hands clean.
4. Resperator. Not a dust mask. Use anytime there are vapors or dust generated. I had a friend who lost 60% of his
lung capacity from using a dust mask, from an auto supply store, instead of a resperator when he painted an
engine with a catalyized paint. He died a few years later from complications.
I went to an Automotive Training Managers Council convention and attended a seminar on "Why to Wear Gloves". The doctor who did the presentation stated that if you can smell or taste the vapors or product you are working with, your body has already absorbed it. I immediately understood why professional automotive painters wear a "moon suit" with a hood that has an outside air source.
Absolutely never ever work on or under a vehicle supported only with a jack, hydraulic or mechanical. Always support the vehicle with jack stands that are properly placed. Once on the jack stands, shake the car to make sure it is stable and won't shift.
Cement blocks and wood blocks stacked up are just an accident waiting to happen.
Welding on a part that has brake cleaner still on it that has not evaporated will create phosgene gas --- deadly. It is said that non-chlorinated brake cleaner does not pose the same risks. The stuff evaporates quickly enough, just make sure it is all gone no matter non-chlorinated or not.
I always used a set of large, robust ramps to get a
car up, these 70s SEARs units had detachable ramps.
There are usually some wheels off, and I slide them
under (perhaps with some blocks) so that if anything
falls, it cannot go too far. I do not trust the
stability of jack stands. Bruce Roe
Any ideas about using an engine flushing oil? On the website where I usually order my classic engine oils, I ran into a flushing oil, which presumably cleans the oil passages, remove sludge, gum and moisture. Does anyone have any expierience with these products? Is it a good idea on an engine that has been sitting for 25+ years? Or will I open a can of worms?