So it looks as if my 59 is finally almost done. Shop does great work but they're snail slow. In any case I swung past the shop this AM to get a look at her. What concerns me is the exhaust tips sticking out. This doesnt look factory to me although I used Waldrons for the kit. Any input?
Photo
The question is how are your exhaust hangers and is there twisting adjustment in the pipes.
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I have Waldrons exhaust and hangers from Grant in New Zealand.
My resonator angles down. Not really parallel in the frame. I don't know if this is correct.
After I put bumpers on I may adjust the rubber on the rear hanger to bring it up. Or just trim the tip.
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This question has been asked for as long as I can remember. For the 1959 Cadillac, the tips of the exhaust are to be just above the lower lip of the bumper and pointed in an 75o down position with the tips cut in a line square to the ground so as not to be seen.
Okay looks as if its an easy fix. I'm not happy with how it looks now. It appears that the tips were bent too hard of an angle at Waldrons as I remember them being sorta oddly bent when they were on the shop floor. Also I can see the back end of the resonators too so I assume its a simple adjustment for that?
Depending on the circumference of the resonator, you may be able to shorten the rubber isolation strap in the clamp and hanger.
Mine was done custom to the car. The shop is the same one that Harbor Restorations in Melbourne, FL., trailers all their cars to. I walked back and forth to the shop.
I have been debating if I am using the rear hanger improperly. If I flip it to mount the clamp on top of the hanger, instead of hanging below. It looks much more level to the frame.
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Those clamps should always be tightened from the underside of the car. How would you get a wrench up between the body and the nut on the clamp. You put it on upside down, because you have no body in the way to work. That looks much better the correct way.
I don't know these cars but flipping that clamp seems like it would make the difference. At first I was gonna say that lip on the bracket would not be ideal but once you set the cradle part of that clamp there I would imagine the pipe is even with or clears that lip so should work fine as long as its not gonna raise things up too high and start burning carpet in the trunk but its not like this is a cat that is really gonna get hot.
Bolts pointing down also makes some sense. Hopefully that's also Jack's problem and he has the same mounts so the same fix will work.
You know what I think flipping it might be a good idea. Idk how they were installed from the factory? Seems as if the rear hangars hang low but Grants stuff is spot on so anyone of an authority please respond
Above. Image from parts book.
Ah okay. Thank you. I'll just have to take a look when I get the car back hopefully this week.
When I made the exhausts for my '60 CDV, I had the pipes facing down and back, but, one day on a car run, we had to turn around in a quarry at the end of the road, and in doing so, the exhaust pressure kicked up so much dust as I was reversing, the back of the car got totally covered in horrible dust.
The next day, out came the cutters, and I grafted an extension so it would never happen again.
Bruce. >:D
PS. Down here, it is illegal to have any exhaust output pointing downward towards the road surface.
I did my exhaust system a couple years ago. It is also from Waldrons. The mounts also came from Grant Owen.
For the final mount on the resonator placing the exhaust clamp at the bottom places the resonator at the right height.
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Full thread of the install is here:
https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/index.php?topic=169595.0
Thanks for the photo. It appears your tips are shorter than mine so I may opt to have mine cut. I'll take a look at it when I get the car back. I also used the metal flex tubing on mine as well. Havent seen that yet but I was told it looks nice.
Looks like she's done although nobody called me to say so. I'm also a bit pissed at the shop. They're saying my bill is 3k for a reseal on the trans and an exhaust install. They only charged me 1800 for some serious work they did to my 66 Toro....
The bill says, 1959 Cadillac. What more needs to be said?
Quote from: Big Fins on June 24, 2024, 03:38:38 PMThe bill says, 1959 Cadillac. What more needs to be said?
Hahahaha funny but they've done right in the past before.....just this time something seems off by at least a grand if not more.
Tim,
The tips along with the resonators should not be hanging so low that they can be seen from the side of the car, either side.
Yes, the exhaust pipes should be twisted when installed to best align the hangers to give proper support.
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The saddle portion of the hangers should be mounted parallel to the ground below the car.
The diagram accurately depicts the orientation of the hanger and the horse shoe bolts with a lock washer and hex nut below, not above.
Not to pimp the 59-60 Authenticity Manual, there is a section devoted to the exhaust system in far more detail with pictures, especially showing the frame evolutions and the resulting hangers - also provided by Grant.
Do you also have the 2 brackets at the front of the system at the bell housing - a real must have.
If you added the spiral sheathes around the drop downs of the exhaust on both sides up front - a correct installation, provided the were cut correctly with proper clamping locations.
I can't speak to the eccentricities of the "down under" folks like Bruce - but that installation is SO WRONG, for many reasons, not the least of which is that while the car is dialing, exhaust fumes could make their way into the car by way of the trunk etc..
Have fun,
Steve B.
PS
Couldn't find an image insert icon ?????
I'll get a better idea of how she is when I pick her up. I'm still trying to figure out why my bills 2800 now (200 less than it was a few hours ago)...
So the exhaust is in but hangs very low in spots. The brackets are tight and the exhaust is too but it looks like a mess. They also didnt add the flex pipe up towards the exhaust manifold. To make matters worse I test drove it and it sputtered and sounded like a tractor. No acceleration whatsoever. Brought it back in for them to correct it but needless to say I will NOT use them again.
I didn't think there was a flexible pipe after the Manifold. Just a separate flexible covering to contain heat away from the feet.
Bruce. >:D
Sputtering now doesn't seem like a good sign. I'm almost afraid to hear how that happened.
Did you replace the heat riser or use a spacer in place of? I just had the pipe made longer to compensate for the heat riser space. If you did reuse it, was it free moving? It may be causing too much back pressure especially if you did the manifold crossover block off.
Heat riser is on there and functioning. Is it possible that when they installed the exhaust, they caused it to be blocked? I just dont get why the car runs like garbage now. It ran wonderfully when I dropped it off.
I'm also starting to wonder if Waldrons gave me a system that was not properly bent. I'm reading of a lot of issues on other forums regarding the quality control of the bends. This would make sense as there's parts of the exhaust that hang so low it looks as if its some two bit hack job from bubba.
Exhaust is one of those things that has to be made to fit the car, with the car in their possession. The car is on a drive-on rack and everything can be properly fit with new hangers, clamps and all welds painted so they won't rust.
Living in the desert, I don't know why you would want the heat riser in there, but it's your car.
My waldrons exhaust is perfect. It was actually a surprise to me how good it was. And 61 is a single exhaust with a welded cross over.
To be able to have two bolt flanges line up and fit perfect with the bending cutting and welding across the two pipe sections is amazing to me.
Random question. Did your shop try to weld the sections together from waldrons? Or are they all fit and clamped together like original.
Do you have photos from Below. I am also wondering if they tried to route the exhaust under the frame cross supports rather then through them.
I don't have photos sadly as the car was off the lift. I've instructed them to use only the shop manual for reference as they didn't beforehand. They clamped everything together as instructed, however, as I told them to NOT weld it at all.
One side from 61. 59 is the same bend pattern but is a smaller pipe. IMG_20230910_190503360.jpg
61 only uses 4 exhaust hangers counting the rubber sheet through the frame. 59 has 10, 5 per side since there is no cross over pipe that supports the weight in front of the muffler.
At first I thought I had a bad bend where the pipe runs along the frame torsion tunnel. But when I set the resonator and adjusted the pipe going over the rear end the pipe pulled away from the tunnel and strained out.
Now your could be off. Everyone makes mistakes. But I would look at twist or adjustment between the pipe sections first.
I drove to waldrons to pick up my pipes. Photographed the place and tools. There are two women who work up front taking orders. Then there is the owner and one other guy in the back making pipes. I think they are Amish or Mennonite. The shop is filled with original exhausts that he uses as his patterns for making new pipes.
Thank you for the photos they're of great help. The car is located about 20 minutes from me so I can swing by on Friday to check it out when I'm off work. I'm wondering if they didn't route it properly somehow. If they did then its a matter of finding a shop that can tweak it to fit properly. Waldrons website does state that they're not responsible for fit and that it will be the customers cost to fix that...
One of the moderators must be finished punishing me.
VOILA = now the post click & drop... shows up.
As you may be able to see the exhaust tip length of pipe seems shorter than yours.
And it should be clear that the tip is cut parallel to the ground - not straight across or at a 45 degree angle.
There is a close-up view of the braces at the drop down areas behind the bell housing - one for each side - a most.
Then there are pics of generally how and where the braces are attached on either side.
Keep in mind that if you will be adding the spiral wrapped sheathes, the placement of the braces will be slightly different - see a previous posting of mine showing the original sheathes and brace placement.
Have fun,
Steve B.
I'm really starting to think that my kits just poorly bent. Everything from my memory is that everything is in the right place.
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on June 25, 2024, 05:36:17 PMOne of the moderators must be finished punishing me.
VOILA = now the post click & drop... shows up.
Have fun,
Steve B.
G'day Steve,
If you are referring to me, I think I have found the reason why the Click and drop is sometimes missing.
If you reply to a message by hitting the "Quote" button, then that access is missing,
BUT, if you hit the Reply Button, the Click and drop function is displayed.
I had come across the problem before, and now I fully understand how it works,
thanks to yourself. Now, if I want to quote anyone, I use the Reply Button, and
then copy what I want to quote, and then insert the "quote" and "unquote" words
at the beginning and end of the passage I want to quote.
Bruce. >:D
Okay talked to the shop today. They said the exhaust noise I'm supposedly hearing is due to the vent tube at the engine? This doesn't seem to make sense since it never made any noise before. Any ideas?
Also have an appointment for a local custom exhaust shop. Guess I'm going to have to fork out another 700 bucks to get it to sit right...
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on June 26, 2024, 02:24:20 PMOkay talked to the shop today. They said the exhaust noise I'm supposedly hearing is due to the vent tube at the engine? This doesn't seem to make sense since it never made any noise before. Any ideas?
Also have an appointment for a local custom exhaust shop. Guess I'm going to have to fork out another 700 bucks to get it to sit right...
ROTFLMFAO!!! They just showed their intelligence level.
OK hang on. Are you using the correct exhaust hangers. Because if you are the rear of the resonator IS in the right spot because it is a straight pipe. You cannot incorrectly bend straight. That does not speak to the rest of the system. But you have only shown a tailpipe angled down behind the bumper.
I'm assuming they are talking about what is usually called the draft tube? That is the crankcase breather and unless they have some major blockage going on that is just increasing pressures all over the place the noise and flow out of that tube should not have changed.
Was your old exhaust system leaking anywhere? If so maybe it was covering up other noises that have grown since your system was nice and tight and quiet.
I do wonder a bit about the heat riser like if somehow its been damaged or jammed shut. If it is there should be a pretty noticeable difference in what is coming out the tail pipes. The side with the valve should have almost no flow.
Does anyone know if waldrons ships their systems with any sorts of caps or plugs that are supposed to be removed before install? I don't think I have ever seen that but just wondering what could be going on here.
Did you find out more about the transmission work they did? I wonder if some of that is contributing to your perception that things just are not right? Like if they got into and damaged or messed with the control linkage?
Quote from: Clewisiii on June 26, 2024, 02:50:14 PMOK hang on. Are you using the correct exhaust hangers. Because if you are the rear of the resonator IS in the right spot because it is a straight pipe. You cannot incorrectly bend straight. That does not speak to the rest of the system. But you have only shown a tailpipe angled down behind the bumper.
I'm using Grants hangers from NZ. Everything looks in line but it's hanging down low in spots such as in the rear with the rear resonators AND the passenger side is visible. They did state that they were able to adjust it a little bit better. I'll see when I pick it up in a day or two.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on June 26, 2024, 02:53:13 PMI'm assuming they are talking about what is usually called the draft tube? That is the crankcase breather and unless they have some major blockage going on that is just increasing pressures all over the place the noise and flow out of that tube should not have changed.
Was your old exhaust system leaking anywhere? If so maybe it was covering up other noises that have grown since your system was nice and tight and quiet.
I do wonder a bit about the heat riser like if somehow its been damaged or jammed shut. If it is there should be a pretty noticeable difference in what is coming out the tail pipes. The side with the valve should have almost no flow.
Does anyone know if waldrons ships their systems with any sorts of caps or plugs that are supposed to be removed before install? I don't think I have ever seen that but just wondering what could be going on here.
Did you find out more about the transmission work they did? I wonder if some of that is contributing to your perception that things just are not right? Like if they got into and damaged or messed with the control linkage?
I'm wondering that too and if somethings in a muffler or resonator somewhere. Just doesnt make sense.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on June 26, 2024, 02:53:13 PMDoes anyone know if waldrons ships their systems with any sorts of caps or plugs that are supposed to be removed before install? I don't think I have ever seen that but just wondering what could be going on here.
The system I installed on my '59 from them did not. The pieces were across two cardboard boxes but nothing was capped. The pipes were wrapped in brown paper if I recall correctly.
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on June 25, 2024, 01:02:17 PMI'm wondering if they didn't route it properly somehow. If they did then its a matter of finding a shop that can tweak it to fit properly.
When I did mine I hung all of the parts loosely and then, from front to back, did some tweaking and pulling to align everything and tightened as I went. I remember the mufflers being the most difficult part to get to tuck up into place. The mounts needed to twist at the clamp to pull the muffler into place. Once it was massaged a little everything looked great.
I also remember thinking that it was great how there were no burrs on the pipes so nothing had to be hammered together. The pipes easily slipped together.
Each of the pipes was clearly labeled left or right and what their position was so hopefully your shop guys had enough brain cells to figure that part out and everything is in the right place.
Perhaps your system just needs a little finessing to get it where it needs to be.
If they used the typical U bolt clamps and didn't align things right hopefully they didn't just set the impact gun to 11 and go to town on those clamps. By their design they crimp and crush the pipes. The tighter they go the worse the crush which can basically make it impossible to take apart or even rotate the pipes. You end up damaging stuff and burning up a lot of time. Sometimes the only option is to cut the pipe off then slit the inner pipe so it will collapse and can be removed then use an expander to allow you to insert a new piece of pipe.
IF you are not going for the original look and there is any chance you ever want to take anything part spend the extra money and buy band clamps. They hold great and don't crush the pipe. They do cost more like maybe $10 but in the grand scheme of things that really isn't much. You can also use the band clamps as a patch when you had to cut pipes to patch up other bad work.
Going back to the original question about the exhaust tips themselves, when the pipe exited the resonators, they were curved almost perfectly down toward the ground and cut to a parallel ending with the ground, if it even needed to be cut at all. It was also a 1 3/4" pipe. The 59-60 Authenticity Manual should have this included.
I'm no expert by any means, but I purchased a complete '59 SDV that the only thing changed on it was the engine and transmission, because the owner wanted to be able to service the car himself and didn't like the canister oil filter. He swapped in a 1962 Engine and transmission through the dealer. Strange as it may seem, it was done.
How a country can dictate the exhaust tip endings is about as idiotic as I could think of, but then again, they do everything upside down south of the Equator.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on June 27, 2024, 01:33:24 PMIf they used the typical U bolt clamps and didn't align things right hopefully they didn't just set the impact gun to 11 and go to town on those clamps. By their design they crimp and crush the pipes. The tighter they go the worse the crush which can basically make it impossible to take apart or even rotate the pipes. You end up damaging stuff and burning up a lot of time. Sometimes the only option is to cut the pipe off then slit the inner pipe so it will collapse and can be removed then use an expander to allow you to insert a new piece of pipe.
IF you are not going for the original look and there is any chance you ever want to take anything part spend the extra money and buy band clamps. They hold great and don't crush the pipe. They do cost more like maybe $10 but in the grand scheme of things that really isn't much. You can also use the band clamps as a patch when you had to cut pipes to patch up other bad work.
Everything on this car must be factory. The car is an excellent condition survivor so I'm not interested in taking anything away from its originality.
I'll take some photos today. more fluff and gruff from this shop. The shop manager isn't even in today supposedly. I'm about to have my car pulled and towed to a reputable shop. I'm over this monkey business.
Cars back in my hands. The heat riser was stuck and now appears to be flopping under acceleration. I'm taking her to an exhaust shop tomorrow so I'll have them take a look at that. Here is the exhaust as it is now. Sounds great but doesnt look great. Also numbnuts over at the shop adjusted the parking brake to taught so it's dragging slightly
Photos
Also somehow I now have vapor lock?
Yes those pipes are on the wrong side of the clamp. Fixing it will raise it 3 inches.
Sorry wrong side of hanger is what I meant.
But will that fix the front mufflers?
Btw the exhaust note is pretty darn close to the original exhaust that came off of her.
I cannot really see the front mufflers in that picture . But the front muffler has a hanger on both the front and back. So if those are installed correctly there is not much adjustment.
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It looks as if the u is upside down by the front mufflers? I'm assuming they should all be an upside down U with the clamps?
Tim,
Gabe, describes what it takes to do a proper job - loose fit from front to back twisting and adjusting as you go and slightly tighten to avoid slipping.
Once is place front to back, then tighten up and making sure the saddles and mounting plates are horizontal to the ground as well.
This system - no matter how well the pipes are bent - IS NOT PLUG AND PLAY.
Here are a couple more pics to show the original asbestose wrap and replaced with 2 pieces of spiral wrap.
Now, I have not used the "repro" aftermarket asbestose wrap used in 40's exhausts to make a faux asbestose look, but you might want to consider it ????
Can't be sure but the smaller brace seemed to be missing ????
Have fun,
Steve B.
If the heat riser isn't working right or stuck open that will put a lot more heat in the carb so that could be your vapor lock. Otherwise I would be looking at fuel lines. If the suction side is pinched off that could be reducing the flow and pressure on the suction side which could make it boil in the line more easily. If the return is restricted you won't have the continuous flow which will mean the slower moving fuel can get hotter and more chance of boil.
Well tonight was not a fun night. She wouldnt start when I stopped off at home. An hour later, with the help of some starter fluid, she fired up. Started driving back to her garage when I stopped at Auto Zone for fuel chemicals..and also some Marvel because of a noticeable tap coming from the front drivers side of the engine. Was never there before but it is now. Went to start her again...nothing. Bought a new coil because I thought that might be the issue and she started....but then half way to the garage the gen light kicked on and stayed on. Great...dead gen again. To make matters worse the storage place I keep her at was closed....so shes now sitting tucked away carefully by the lease office in the hopes she'll be there tomorrow. I can honestly say this has been one glorious sh*t show.
Okay so luckily a local friend with a 59 had a spare generator. This will at least get her charging and semi road worthy. I have an audible valve clack for some reason that wasnt there before. I'm guessing lack of oil or maybe a bent rod?
Heres Shelley and her local 59 friend.
Figured out my tick. The old exhaust had holes in it so when the new one was fitted it caused the exhaust manifold gasket to fail on one side. Easy fix. Shes charging and ready for the 4th holiday.
I would think the gasket didn't fail because of the new exhaust, you just didn't hear it over the Swiss Cheese system that was on there. ;)
That is wonderful. I am glad these issues are working out.
You should have heard my '59 when it came off of the carrier. The neighbors sure did!
Quote from: Big Fins on June 30, 2024, 06:01:27 PMYou should have heard my '59 when it came off of the carrier. The neighbors sure did!
Surprisingly the old exhaust was quiet except you could here a bit more of a rumble at times. The flex pipe hid the holes.
I did notice a few minor stupid items from the old shop. They failed to install my NOS AC44 behind the power steering bracket. Charged me for that too (albeit not much). Easy fix as theres a vendor who sells singles on Ebay.
Also I dont know why but they adjusted the parking brake so tight that the pedal didnt even move. I loosened it up enough where its free but still too tight. These guys are absolute bozos. I will give them credit on the transmission. She shifts smooth and looks great paint wise.