I owe the community this restoration story, because I've been asking questions and getting great help for a year now with no context. I greatly appreciate all the information and advice I've received and enjoy being part of it. Without further delay, welcome to the saga of my restoration.
Back in the late 80s as a college student I became the proud owner of my grandmother's 1961 Series 62 Bristol Blue Convertible. I drove it for a few years before the transmission front seal fluid leak became to significant to ignore. That was followed by the start of my active duty Air Force career. I moved it from CA to CO to OK to NE to AL, doing minor work on it along the way, waiting to have the time and money to address the transmission. Finally in AL I became friends with the manager of a restoration shop what was going out on his own. I know that sounds dodgy, but I knew his history and capability and I wasn't worried. He agreed to keep my car and work on it as I had "spare" money to send him. We put together a contract because he said the best way to ruin a friendship is to involve money without clear expectations, and I agreed. We made it all legal and we were off.
I pulled the engine and rebuilt it, sent the trans to a shop and had it rebuilt, and left the engine, trans, and car in the care of my friend.
Over the next 2 decades he kept me posted on progress. Mailed pictures and updates. Disassembled the car, striped and primed the body, got a donor car with A/C and moved all the dash and firewall components over and repainted the dash. Finally after a long pause caused by retiring from active duty and moving, I called and we were making plans to finish the restoration, but then I quit hearing from him. He was always busy and I was a side job so I didn't worry, it happened before. My wife and kids tried to contact him to surprise me by finishing the car. After they couldn't get him they asked me about his contact info. I called, left a message, no response. Couple days later texted, no response. Finally I searched the internet for his obituary and found one :( and he'd been gone for months.
Now panic sets in, how did I not know, and where's the car? A card to his wife, went unanswered, as did a letter a few months later. He was working out of a big warehouse in Montgomery AL, restoring train cars for a guy that made his money in railroad industry. I was finally able to remember his name, Royce Kershaw. A few more months of work I was able to make contact and he had the car! :) About 2 weeks before I was supposed to pick up the car, he quit answering my calls about logistics. You guessed it, he passed away. I finally got in touch with his heirs and made arrangements to collect the car. Not knowing what I was getting into or how many pieces it may or may not be in, I reserved a rental truck and trailer and suckered a friend into a road trip. Sitting for a few years in a warehouse where other people had access was probably not the best situation. Also found out over the years the roof had fallen into disrepair and leaked. The car was not as far along as I had pictured, based on my last call, but I found it and loaded it up. Then went on a scavenger hunt for all the parts. Spent all day loading up everything we could find and, and hit the road the next morning.
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It spent the night in front of the house and then off to the body shop with it. I live south of Los Angeles and found a great place through my neighbor called Sterling of Lomita. Manny the manger, and Eddie the painter did an amazing job, starting with taking it down to bare metal, fixing a rocker panel, putting in new front floors, and they even found an old wrinkle in the trunk that must have been from an accident long before I had it, and they fixed that as well. Then primed and blocked it. Here it is ready for paint. If anyone needs a classic pained in the Los Angeles area, I'm happy to provide contact info for the shop.
Once the primer was done it was time to finalize the color. Of course, we started with the color code, plugged it into the PPG computer and it spit out a color matched to a modern VW vehicle, with a name nowhere near Bristol Blue. They sprayed a little test square and in some lighting it looked like an exact match and in other lighting it looked too gray or too green. Without me even asking the shop brought in a PPG rep to do a camera color match. Luckily the underside of the hood was still Bristol Blue. Color came out closer but it was still off just a bit. To get a better feel of the color the shop pained 1/2 of a rocker patch panel with each of the two colors, computer match and the camera match. The way the new 2 stage paints look compared to the original single stage make's judging the match a little challenging. I was talking to they painter about what I was seeing and how it wasn't really looking blue, and he said I have an idea come back tomorrow. When I came back he had painted a full rocker patch panel with his modified color, and I thought it was perfect. He took the camera match and removed the toner from the recipe and it brought out the blue a little bit more an made the metallic flake a little less pronounced. It's a little hard to tell in the photos.
If you look at the photos, the rocker panels are sitting on the underside of the hood. The back panel has the computer (right) and camera (left) generated formulas and the front one is the painter modified version. The fact the painter grew up in a family that owned a body shop shows, he has a real talent for understanding the chemistry in this process. They're going to give me a sample card and the formula so I'll post it here when I get it in case it helps anyone else.
With the paint under control and some time to kill before it was done, it was time to turn my attention to the engine. I had rebuilt it before it went into storage and been very generous with the assembly lube, so I hope I would just be able to turn it over with a wrench. I did notice when I picked the engine up on AL it was still on the stand, but the oil drain plug was out. I thought that was odd since I'm sure I had left it in but didn't give it much thought. I put a nice long wrench on the front crank nut and tried to turn the engine over but nothing moved. Decided I didn't need to fight the compression so pulled the spark plugs and that's when I knew I was in trouble. One was wet and rusty? So off come the heads and this is what I found.
That is sickening. Looks like the storeage was compromised very badly with water ingress.
Bruce. >:D
Really sorry for you, we never have to worry where to put our time and money..
Bryt ihop och kom igen, as we say in Sweden
/ Johan
So I found out the hard way why the drain plug was missing. someone must have noticed a roof leak in the building allowed water into the intake. So I assume they pulled the drain plug, but didn't take the extra step of pulling the plugs, or throwing some oil in to prevent rust.
I tore down the engine and took it to the machine shop. Cam was good, pistons and rings were good. Lifters were a loss and the cylinder was going to need to go 60 over and still no guarantee. The machinists first reaction was, new block. Once I said numbers matching car, we opted to sleeve it. New sleeves bored 30 over so I can use my existing pistons, and turned the crank as well. Couple weeks in the shop, took a while for the sleeves to arrive and we were back in business. When I got the block home and started to assemble I realized the alignment dowels were missing for the head gaskets. I tried to buy new, but they are not to be found. After talking to a few machinists, I ended up turning the old ones over and tapping them back in and they worked. The other option I found out about was to buy .5" OD steal tubing and cut them yourself. Got the parts back, picked up some Cadillac blue engine enamel from Hirsch and got to work with my son. I was really impressed at how well the Hirsch enamel went on with a foam brush.
Waiting for the car to come back from paint, I finally had time to start doing some inventory. Trying to find all the pieces of a car scattered throughout a huge dimly lit warehouse space in one afternoon was a challenge. I thought I had most everything but I know I'm missing some parts. After sorting through everything I think I've compiled a full list of missing parts. I'd appreciate any suggestions on cost effective sources for the missing items.
ENGINE PARTS
- Radiator - I know there are low cost aluminum ones out there, but I'd like that part to look more original.
- Engine Oil Dipstick
- Breather from top of oil filler tube - the one that's sort of shaped like a hand grenade
EXTERIOR PARTS
- RH fender mounted turn indicator, mounting/bulb bracket (I have lens and chrome top, I need the part under the fender)
Indicator-bracket.jpg
- Trunk V insignia
- Power Antenna
INTERIOR PARTS
- Center portion of front bench seat that armrest folds into
- Seat protectors (metal shields on side of seat backs and bench, I have the chrome inserts)
- Dash Pad in usable condition - my good one went missing and the one I have is going to have to go to just dashes for complete rebuild
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- Guidematic (Autronic) Eye for dash - John Oldenburg to the rescue here, he has my amp and floor switch and is putting together a full system for me. He's been a great source of information in this hunt.
- Good Condition Steering wheel, I have the chrome just need the wheel, my plastic is cracked in several places. I'm probably going to go with a cover until I can afford to get it recast.
Technically I need a full interior. I have the seat frames, window switches, and interior door handles and that's about it. I assume once I find the missing parts above, a company like SMS can fabricate the interior for me. Would like to hear any lessons learned on this topic.
Hirsch paint is superior. Doesnt take much to apply and when it dries its brilliant. Wish they still made the rattle cans for touch up.
I tried to order a rattle can about 2 weeks ago and found out they didn't sell them any more, but the suggested a Preval sprayer. I picked one up at my local Home Depot, thinned the paint 25% with xylene, and it worked great. That's the way I painted my transmission and touched up the bolt heads on the engine.
I was thinking about rebuilding my water pump, but I'm concerned about the look of the weep hole. It looks a bit ragged, and I'm not sure if that's normal, or anything I should be concerned about. If it's only purpose is to let you know when the seal is failing its shape probably isn't important but I'd be interested to hear what others think. Is this normalish or cause for concern?
Quote from: dbzsjones on February 17, 2025, 12:41:10 AMI was thinking about rebuilding my water pump, but I'm concerned about the look of the weep hole. It looks a bit ragged, and I'm not sure if that's normal, or anything I should be concerned about. If it's only purpose is to let you know when the seal is failing its shape probably isn't important but I'd be interested to hear what others think. Is this normalish or cause for concern?
It is normal. Mine was the same. I will look for a picture after work.
I thought my casting was damaged at first. This was my waterpump after coming back from Arthur Gould Rebuilders.Screenshot 2025-02-18 173425.jpg
Quote from: Clewisiii on February 18, 2025, 05:35:47 PMI thought my casting was damaged at first. This was my waterpump after coming back from Arthur Gould Rebuilders.Screenshot 2025-02-18 173425.jpg
Thank you, not nearly the finished hole I was expecting.
Big day, the car is back from paint. Eddy and Manny at Sterling of Lomita did a great job, apparently in the excitement I forgot to take many pictures, but the car came out great. Back-from-paint.jpg
I took a look at the firewall where the new paint on the side meets the original paint on the front and I think that's a pretty good match.
Firewall-paint.jpg
Couldn't be happier with the way it turned out, now I "just" need to put it back together.
I asked the shop for the paint formula and they sent me a picture of their computer with the amounts for a 10oz batch. The logic being that was a good number to scale up and down from. It's for PPG paint. I assume if you take it to a body shop they'll be able to recreate the color. It is no the formula their computer will give them if they enter paint code 22, and it isn't even the camera match exactly. We started with the camera match and then tweaked it a bit to bring out the blue a bit and reduce the intensity of the metallic to be more appropriate for a 60s car. Did I mention the dedication of Eddy at Sterling of Lomita really impressed me?! :D
Bristol-Blue-Metalic-Paint-code-22-PPG Formula.jpg
If you need more than this to use the formula, please let me know and I can get the missing info.
Gorgeous 61!
Can I ask how much you spent. Because my quote was $35,000. But the fleetwood does have more surface on it.
Quote from: Clewisiii on February 19, 2025, 01:58:36 PMCan I ask how much you spent. Because my quote was $35,000. But the fleetwood does have more surface on it.
PM sent with details. 30-40K was what I was getting for frame off quotes,I took the on frame route to stay in budget.
With the paint done, and the car back in my garage it was time to start putting things together. First thing I had to do was get some of the big things off the top of my parts bins.
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So seat frames go in the car.
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and I put the convertible frame back on. I didn't hook up the hydraulics yet, but decided to put it up by hand and realized just how small my garage really is.
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At least in LA, I can open the door most days and get a little more room that way. Engine and Trans are going in soon, but it's not a Cadillac without chrome so I need to get some shiny bits on next while I wait for my son to come help with the engine.
I picked up some metal polish and started cleaning and attaching chrome parts. Started by making my life easier and getting some exterior door handles on and the edge trim.
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Since I was working on the door I may as well add the mirror.
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Next, to the Fins!
I keep arguing with myself if I am going to cut holes in my passenger door and install a RH mirror. I already bought one, now just second guessing if I want to use it.
If it is anything like the '59 or '60, then they are pretty useless, as positioning them directly opposite the Left Mirror, the Windscreen Post is in the way.
With my '60 CDV, which was converted to RHD, the left mirror is just an ornament, as the screen pillar is totally in the way.
Bruce. >:D
I'm not brave enough to start cutting holes in my passenger door. I'll stick with left side only.
We're spoiled by mirrors and backup cameras. Left hand mirror and rear view is good enough.
I think most people would agree one of the more iconic parts of a 60s Cadillac is the fins, so I felt compelled to start there with reattaching the trim. I had some down time waiting for some engine parts and need to start getting things off the shelves and onto the car. First problem to solve was what clips do I need. My searches kept coming up empty until I finally found what I thought I needed on Caddy Daddy and placed the order. It wasn't until they arrived that I realized what I bought was actually designed for 59 & 60, not 61, but since I had them I decided to test them.
They fit in the trim.
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They aren't symmetrical so I tired them on the facing both directions and they seem to fit.
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So knowing absolutely nothing about how to properly do this, and appearing to have clips that will work I gave it a try. Fist challenge, I ordred one set thinking that would be enough for both fins, but it was only for 1. I had 6 clips and 10 total clip positions. Since this was sort of a test run, I divided and conquered and used 3 on each side, put the small clip up front that bolts through the top of the fin, that was still on the car.
I tried two techniques. First, after bolting on the tail light and fin tip, I mounted the clips on the body and then slid the trim from front to back. This was not very successful. It deformed some of the clips and was high risk for the paint job. I now have my first scratch :-[
Attempt 2, I slid the clips into the trim. Held the trim along side the fin and lined the clips up with the mounting locations on the fin. I then pivoted the trim into position and gave each clip location a whack with the palm of my hand. That worked, so with the help of my son in the trunk we tightened up the front bolt on clip. Of note, my son is 6'2" so the fact he was in the truck wasn't because he was smaller than me, the trunks are just that big! 8)
Overall I'm pretty happy with the results.
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I only have a couple lingering questions.
Did I figure out the right way to do it, or just get lucky?
What is this putty in the trim?
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I removed it because it was only in one side. I assume it's probably to keep things from rattling so I may find out if I need it after it's on the road.
Where do I get more of the bolt down clips, the drivers side isn't tightening down all the way. I really need to figure out what I'm doing before I move on to the side trim.
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on February 23, 2025, 02:30:20 PMWe're spoiled by mirrors and backup cameras. Left hand mirror and rear view is good enough.
If I need more visibility I'll just put the top down 8) ;D
While I had the car pushed out (the fins are actually under a shelf) I decided I'd tackle the trunk trim as well. One less painted part floating around the shop waiting to get damaged. This was nice and straight forward. Line it up and tighten the nuts. I don't think there was any sort of gasket required.
Trunk-trim-attached.jpg
The only thing I need to do is figure out what to buy to replace the 2 clips on the outboard edges that slide. The studs on those were broken off during removal.
Trunk-trim-clips.jpg
show the data plate on your car. I think my car has the same paint and trim codes.
The putty on the front holes is to prevent water leaks into the body.
I thought I posted this in my first post, but clearly I did not. Thanks for asking.
Paint 22 Bristol Blue Metalic
Trim 23
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Quote from: Clewisiii on February 24, 2025, 02:24:22 PMThe putty on the front holes is to prevent water leaks into the body.
That makes sense, I guess I need to go find a source for it.
Big weekend, finally got the trans bolted to the engine and the whole assembly installed. Sure was a lot easier without a front clip in the way. Waited until the engine was installed to add the valve covers, so I didn't scratch them with the hoist chains. Hit one small snag. The brackets on the chain that bolted to the back of the head stuck out just enough that I had to remove the throttle linkage from the firewall to get the engine in the final position. I love the load leveler for being able to adjust the tilt of the engine and you work it into position.
Minor setback yesterday. I was getting some accessories, brackets, and pulleys ready for paint and realized I don't have the 3 groove pulleys needed for the AC swap.
What's really confusing is I have a 2nd crank pulley, theoretically off the donor car, buy it's a 2 groove pulley. Is there any configuration for a 1961-1962 Caddy with AC and PS that only uses 2 belts?
I have a spare set. You also need this retainer ring if you do not have it.
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I do still have the front bracket with the generator mount bracket. But not the rear bracket.
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If you're willing to part with them I'm happy to give them a good home. PM sent.
I will also get some of the right bolts for the front bracket. They are different depending on location.
I may also throw in a fuel filter wirh vapor return. 20250325_174912.jpg
Awesome! Thank you!
Parts car bracket was missing bolts. Only got one of the long ones.
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Am I right in assuming I need more than my fixed 4 blade fan as well?
I dont know how much of a "requirement" it is. But AC cars had a 7 blade fan and a thermal clutch.
Closest new thermal clutch is a Hayden 2710.
There was also a radiator shroud that directed air to the fan.
I have never seen a spacer used in an original AC car set up.
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A little more packing material and this will be ready to ship out on Saturday.
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Everything arrived in great shape.20250406_140402.jpg
I was able to get started mounting accessories.
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I didn't think my water pump was an AC version,but it looks like the pulley grooves line up.
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New radiator arrived this week.
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Bottom pipe is turned up like the original.
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Came very well packed. This is what it looked like after I dumped it out of the box. Very throughly foamed in place.
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So of course I had to get it installed on the core support. It really surprises me how small it looks.
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Learned 1 lesson the hard way today. When I installed the engine I decided to do it with the exhaust manifolds off thinking it would be easy enough to install them after since there are no fenders in the way. It ended up being much harder than I expected. The front 2 bolts need to be in the manifold before you place it, and the back 2 in the circle were a lot of fun to get to working around the steering system. Coming up from underneath was the trick, but even then clearances were tight and a stubby box end wrench was my best friend.
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Anybody have problems with the fit of a chip's caddy dipstick tube? Trying to decide if it's the tube or the stick. I'm expecting that grommet to fit inside the tube. The tube fits in the engine fine so the OD is correct.
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I think I remember there being an o ring on the dipstick. But mine fell off long ago. 20250408_062841.jpg20250408_062901.jpg
For me it looks like if you would turn the grommet the other way, would fit perfect.
Just a thought. I don't even have a stick for mine so I'm a little jealous of you guys.
Best
While I was waiting for brackets and other parts to arrive I got to spend some time on the electrical. I started with the ground cables. The big one from the frame to the starter was in good shape so I left it alone, but I was missing the block to the firewall and the ones on the suspension, and after pricing them, I decided to make them. I was surprised how hard it was to source a 3/8" flat quick connector for the firewall side. Lot's a 1/4" out there but not 3/8". I even tried automotive connector sources I found online with no luck, but I finally turned up something that would work on amazon. I think they turned out OK.
New-block-grounds.jpg
After that I turned my attention to the suspension strap.
Here's my version next to the original. One of the sides had the small connector broken off and I decided the old cable was too dirty to ever get a good solder joint so I remade both. got a little heavy handed with the solder, but it flowed well and the connection is solid. I cleaned up the globs before I installed them.
New-Old-suspension-ground.jpg
New-suspension-ground.jpg
With the easy electrical challenge it was time to move onto the hard stuff. My son had noticed some of the wires in the door jamb were broken. While I would love to use this as a reason to buy a new harness, I don't have the budget or time right now so I repaired them instead. The previous restorer had started the repair with the black wire and crimp connectors.
Brokern-wires.jpg
I cut that out and repaired all 3 with red wire and solder connections.
Fixed-jamb-wires.jpg
I hope they hadn't been cut for a reason, but I doubt it. I'm not removing anything so I should need all the wiring.
After the door jamb it was firewall time. The car had half the firewall connector on it, and a full harness in the parts bin.
Firewall-connector-broken.jpgFirewall-connector-doner.jpg
I took the harness with the complete connector and removed all the wires from the left side and then transferred each wire from the broken connector to the complete connector. I tried to avoid damaging the blade connectors in the harness, but ended up damaging 2 and soldered the wires on those. I'm a little concerned that the connector looked like they probably sealed the blade connectors in place after they were inserted, or it could just be years of crud built up. If anybody has some advice on that and how to reproduce it if required, I'll all ears.
I also noticed 3 wires appear to be cut in the harness and shrink wrapped at the ends. I haven't broken out the wiring diagram yet to figure it out but can anyone tell me if this is normal, or do I have another repair job in my future?
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If this turns out to be a repair getting the right position on the firewall connector is my big concern. I assume the colors will help me determine the accessory end without too much ambiguity.
The door harnesses are not sold by anyone. So you would have to rebuild yourself anyway.
I am not aware of any sealant in that block. You are on the engine side correct.
Here is my underhood plug. I would like to try to rebuild this myself. But there was not enough of it left. So I will need to buy one eventually.
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Notice there are two terminals not populated. But the hole does not go all the way through.
I do not know if the holes were punched when inserting the terminals. But they seem to be very tight fits.
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I think 2009 corvette door conduits are the closest thing to use to cover those wires.
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Those male terminals are very easy to remove and replace. As are the female terminals.
As for the door loom, I would surmise that the reason the loom was cut was simply because the previous owner was too lazy when removing the door, and used the joiners as a cheap and nasty way to rejoin the wires.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: Clewisiii on May 04, 2025, 03:43:14 PMThe door harnesses are not sold by anyone. So you would have to rebuild yourself anyway.
I am not aware of any sealant in that block. You are on the engine side correct.
yes on the engine side
I'd love to hear the secret that makes them easy to remove. I spent quite a while with a pair of needle nose pliers, and a pick. Trying to clean out any crud in the slot, and then squeezing and rocking the blade until it finally pressed through. The door has never been off and only the 3 heavy red wires were broken. Maybe it was age, or a bad idea stopped before it got worse.