Okay, so if all goes well "Doris" should be here sometime next week or maybe by next weekend. I do have a few technical questions. They are:
1. No oil filter canister- From my research it appears that 1950 didn't have these? If so why?
2. Hydro-electric system- What maintenance items should I address immediately? Car works as it should but my friend mentioned that when he tried to roll the windows up, they were slow.
3. Any other generalized items that I should look out for that's 50 specific?
Thanks!
1. There is definitely an oil filter. It's located in a "tower" cannister that sits on the top of the engine, i.e. between the front of the driver's side valve cover and the radiator. You screw the lid off and replace the filter inside. Power steering became available in 1951 but some '50s were retrofitted. The power steering unit and belt needed to be in that location so the filter canister was moved to another location (back over the valve cover, on the passenger side over the generator, or somewhere in between).
2. My '55 has electric windows so I can't troubleshoot the hydro-lectric system so much, but taking off the door panel, cleaning and lubricating the rollers in the track and moving parts of the regulator (scissors) made my windows go up much faster. Sometimes the channels need to be adjusted/aligned to prevent binding. If the problem is in the hydro-lectric pump on the firewall, that's a much trickier and complicated matter.
I believe an oil filter was a dealer installed option in 1950.
From what I understand the windows are powered up hydraulically but lowering is simply a valve releasing allowing fluid back to tank (not powered) and there is a spring to assist in retracting the cylinder. I have not owned or used a hydro-electric system. Hopefully, someone who does have one will assist with some advice.
Congratulations on your 1950 Cadillac, thank you for sharing a picture.
Good luck,
Joe
from Serviceman Feb 1954. Page 6
One of the changes was that all 1954 Cadillacs had a factory oil filter. It should be changed every 6000 miles under normal driving.
There were kits for the older cars in the parts book group 8.2952. In the 1952 master parts book it says that on 1949-51 engines it should be installed on right side of engine.
Filters were clearly not something that was thought very important in days gone bye. For my 1931 they were standard,but only changed at 12,000 miles. Or when plugged so bad that oil didn't flow through them.
For 1938 oil filters were no longer standard equipment (Serviceman Oct 1937 page 38).
By June 1938 ,the Serviceman ran a column on how to install them for customers that asked.Some comments in the column may explain why they dropped them. Be sure the by passing oil is enough for the engine. Don't hook into one of the oil galleys it could make the valve lifters noisy (This was how the 1937 filter was set up).
Warren
Quote from: Warren Rauch #4286 on February 05, 2025, 09:27:25 AMfrom Serviceman Feb 1954. Page 6
One of the changes was that all 1954 Cadillacs had a factory oil filter. It should be changed every 6000 miles under normal driving.
There were kits for the older cars in the parts book group 8.2952. In the 1952 master parts book it says that on 1949-51 engines it should be installed on right side of engine.
Filters were clearly not something that was thought very important in days gone bye. For my 1931 they were standard,but only changed at 12,000 miles. Or when plugged so bad that oil didn't flow through them.
For 1938 oil filters were no longer standard equipment (Serviceman Oct 1937 page 38).
By June 1938 ,the Serviceman ran a column on how to install them for customers that asked.Some comments in the column may explain why they dropped them. Be sure the by passing oil is enough for the engine. Don't hook into one of the oil galleys it could make the valve lifters noisy (This was how the 1937 filter was set up).
Warren
Interesting, good to know. It appears this one is very very original then. The seller states 47k miles and it looks every bit to be right.
Also pardon my ignorance here but what does an AACA Senior Award mean for a vehicle? That its unrestored and all original?
At one point in time, someone removed the oil filter on the engine in my 57. The filter and lines were gone and there were pipe plugs in the block where the lines should be. I bought a used filter housing on ebay and installed it after engine was rebuilt. The filters are not like those on cars today where it is direct, these old filters are bypass type not filtering all the oil. Not only that, if you're missing the metal spacer that goes in the canister to raise the filter up, nothing is really getting filtered at all.
I'd like to try and make sure if this was either 1. factory or 2. an option. Based on additional data this car is close to being 400 points based on the AACA scale. My other concern is oil flow.
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on February 05, 2025, 12:59:05 PMAlso pardon my ignorance here but what does an AACA Senior Award mean for a vehicle? That its unrestored and all original?
Not an expert, but Restored/all original, could be either one. There is also a Preservation Class for unrestored vehicles. Suggest consulting the AACA website.
AACA awards - from the AACA forums ---
"When you enter your first AACA National Meet, your vehicle would be in the running for a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Junior. If you win a 1st Junior, your vehicle would then try for the Senior Award at the next AACA National Meet you attend. If however, it earned a 2nd or 3rd Junior, it would have to try again for the 1st Junior. Once it wins the 1st Junior, it competes for the Senior Award. When it wins a Senior Award, it then qualifies for the Grand National. At the first Grand National you attend, your vehicle can win a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Grand National. When it wins the 1st Grand National Award, it would then be in the running for the Senior Grand National Award at the next Grand National you attend."
Thank you. Seems like she's well sorted then. Should arrive this upcoming Monday or Tuesday from Maryland.
I did a little more digging.An oil filter was an option in 1950.
From 1950 Cadillac owners manual page 24.
Oil Filter
"If an oil filter has been installed in your car as an
accessory it is recommended that the oil filter
element be replaced every 6,000 miles."
The filter is also NOT on the lube diagram in the Shop manual.
Marketing was pushing filters that year. AC had a national advertising campaign the fall of 1949. In a letter dated Oct 13,1949 to its dealers Cadillac was helping too. They sent a poster with the letter urging it be displayed. Any one have a copy of the "Dirt Proof Your Engine Oil " poster?
Warren
Quote from: Warren Rauch #4286 on February 07, 2025, 07:57:16 AMI did a little more digging.An oil filter was an option in 1950.
From 1950 Cadillac owners manual page 24.
Oil Filter
"If an oil filter has been installed in your car as an
accessory it is recommended that the oil filter
element be replaced every 6,000 miles."
The filter is also NOT on the lube diagram in the Shop manual.
Marketing was pushing filters that year. AC had a national advertising campaign the fall of 1949. In a letter dated Oct 13,1949 to its dealers Cadillac was helping too. They sent a poster with the letter urging it be displayed. Any one have a copy of the "Dirt Proof Your Engine Oil " poster?
Warren
Good to know shes very stock then. She arrives Monday. Seller also is putting me in touch with the son of the original owner for more history. Nerding out right now.
Confirming they only made 4500 CDVs for 50? Why so low? Korea?
On a side note, does anyone know how effective those early canister filters were? In my local group, the consensus is that the oil should be changed every 2000 miles (or once per year regardless) and the 1949-1958 filters were more of a "peace of mind" effort by GM. Or at worst, a semi-useless gimmick.
BTW, that yellow CDV is to die for!
If it goes missing one late night, you now know who took it for a spin.
Here is an AACA comment:
By Pass filters are effective but full flow filters are more effective. The change over to full flow oil filters I believe coincided with advances in oil technology and the addition of detergents and modifiers. I've modified my 1929 Chrysler to a full flow oil filter and I use Castrol GTX oil. Now I know some of you have just rolled over in your grave, but the car has been on the road (the second time)for thirty years with no measurable wear in the engine.
Back in the late 1970s during my uni days I did some testing on the bypass filter and found that after 60 minutes of running time less than 50% of the oil had passed through the filter. That's why I changed over. Plus zero detergent oils were getting harder to obtain and more expensive. But that aside an engine doing 2000rpm goes through 60 000 revolutions in 30 minutes and that's a lot of chances for that little piece of contaminant to do some damage or get caught in the wrong place.
The other interesting point that gets brought up is "How do you know if oil is actually going through the by pass filter?"
The answer " You don't"
You could potentially drive your car for years with a blocked filter and have absolutely no idea.
In Hendrys' The Complete Cadillac History ,the appendix compiled by William Tite it does say 4507 for the 1950 Coupe De Ville.Read a little further and some reported numbers are production and some Sales. calendar year and model year vary a lot.Just when in the model year they were made, could mean most were made in 1949 and it took till June to make some more. Chevrolet built very few 6Cyl 1955 Corvettes,because they over made 1954's.
The 1950 Coupe de Ville was just a better trimmed out 61 Coupe.If we assume numbers are model year production, see below.
1949 Cadillac 61 Coupe 6409
62 Coupe 7515
62 Coupe de Ville 2150
total 16074
1950 Cadillac 61 Coupe 11,839
62 Coupe 6,434 without/ with Power windows
62 Coupe de Ville 4,507 Power Windows STD.
total 22780
1951 Cadillac 61 coupe 2400
62 coupe 10132
62 Coupe de Ville 10241
total 22773
Production of coupes comparing 1949 is unfair,since most were old style.But,only using the hardtop (de Ville) is wrong too. The numbers look good. The deVille was gaining popularity. I wish I could answer the question. Just provide evidence,it likely is true.
Warren
Well she'll be here Monday. Heres the data plate. Looks as if shes a Dec 49 production?
Quote from: jwwseville60 on February 08, 2025, 08:50:11 AMOn a side note, does anyone know how effective those early canister filters were? In my local group, the consensus is that the oil should be changed every 2000 miles (or once per year regardless) and the 1949-1958 filters were more of a "peace of mind" effort by GM. Or at worst, a semi-useless gimmick.
BTW, that yellow CDV is to die for!
If it goes missing one late night, you now know who took it for a spin.
Here is an AACA comment:
By Pass filters are effective but full flow filters are more effective. The change over to full flow oil filters I believe coincided with advances in oil technology and the addition of detergents and modifiers. I've modified my 1929 Chrysler to a full flow oil filter and I use Castrol GTX oil. Now I know some of you have just rolled over in your grave, but the car has been on the road (the second time)for thirty years with no measurable wear in the engine.
Back in the late 1970s during my uni days I did some testing on the bypass filter and found that after 60 minutes of running time less than 50% of the oil had passed through the filter. That's why I changed over. Plus zero detergent oils were getting harder to obtain and more expensive. But that aside an engine doing 2000rpm goes through 60 000 revolutions in 30 minutes and that's a lot of chances for that little piece of contaminant to do some damage or get caught in the wrong place.
The other interesting point that gets brought up is "How do you know if oil is actually going through the by pass filter?"
The answer " You don't"
You could potentially drive your car for years with a blocked filter and have absolutely no idea.
My 48 Buick has a hidden Fram filter dressed up as the original canister. Sorta like that mod.
Jack,
That is a fine example of a classic Cad in what appears to be in a great starting condition for your restoration, or tooling around the town.
For those who have or are thinking of using or adding a filter canister, I thought I would post some pics that might be helpful.
The pics are from a 1959 set-up, but are similar to other earlier models, in function and design.
Have fun,
Steve B.
PS
I have seen oil filter canisters on 1953's with a roll of toilet paper used as a filter in lieu of an element.
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on February 08, 2025, 06:08:09 PMJack,
That is a fine example of a classic Cad in what appears to be in a great starting condition for your restoration, or tooling around the town.
For those who have or are thinking of using or adding a filter canister, I thought I would post some pics that might be helpful.
The pics are from a 1959 set-up, but are similar to other earlier models, in function and design.
Have fun,
Steve B.
PS
I have seen oil filter canisters on 1953's with a roll of toilet paper used as a filter in lieu of an element.
If she wasnt equipped with it I'll leave it be. Both my others have em so I was concerned it was an issue.
Also thank you to Yellow Brick for a good driver. Enclosed and safely brought.
As the Shop Manual calls for changing the oil every 1000 Miles, using modern oils, the oil isn't going to get dirty enough to require a Filter, if you are to maintain the service regimen.
The trouble with oils these days, is that with the use of modern Full-flow Filters, the Service intervals have been stretched out to huge mileages when compared with the past.
Bruce. >:D
Thanks good to know I change every 1500 miles or after 8 mo.
She arrived today and she's just as nice if not nicer than the pictures. Leather key holder says she was new from Chesapeake Cadillac Company in Baltimore. NEAT!
I'm glad it worked out!
Observation.
When I first looked at the picture of the car in the enclosed truck, I thought even in my youngest skinniest days could I have fit between the car and the side of the truck wall, and even if I could have, how do you open the car door to get in.
You see, I have never received or sent a car in an enclosed truck.
Then the old bifocals kicked in, and I noticed a door on the side of the truck.
Clever little designer devils.
Mystery solved.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on February 12, 2025, 11:22:23 AMObservation.
When I first looked at the picture of the car in the enclosed truck, I thought even in my youngest skinniest days could I have fit between the car and the side of the truck wall, and even if I could have, how do you open the car door to get in.
You see, I have never received or sent a car in an enclosed truck.
Then the old bifocals kicked in, and I noticed a door on the side of the truck.
Clever little designer devils.
Mystery solved.
Have fun,
Steve B.
No sadly the 300 lbs Russian guy climbed in through the passenger door open window. He did it with caution though so I'm not that upset about it.
I do have a new series of questions. They are:
1. The vacuum antenna will retract, but won't go up. All I get is hissing indicating vacuum but no action. Rebuild time?
2. Radio seems non-op. I haven't checked fuses yet but I assume it too might need a rebuild.
3. Sluggish windows. They'll go up, they'll go down, but they move slow.
4. Discharge when headlights come on, but not with anything else. I have one of those repro DELCO batteries under the hood so perhaps its not fully charged? Everything else seems fine and doesn't cause a discharge.
Bet a few of you haven't seen these in a few decades...Perfect match for the 59 who still has her original Firestone spare.
Hey Tim, that is gorgeous. Congratulations on your new "baby". Wish I had her in my garage, but still on my bucket list. You can park her in my driveway anytime! Clay/Lexi
Quote from: Lexi on February 12, 2025, 02:36:04 PMHey Tim, that is gorgeous. Congratulations on your new "baby". Wish I had her in my garage, but still on my bucket list. You can park her in my driveway anytime! Clay/Lexi
Thank you Clay/Lexi. The 50 certainly feels smaller than later models, but they're very comfortable and well thought out.
Nice to see the original grey "dog dish" wheel cap with thumb hole on the spare as well. Often they are missing. Clay/Lexi
Quote from: Lexi on February 12, 2025, 02:47:18 PMNice to see the original grey "dog dish" wheel cap with thumb hole on the spare as well. Often they are missing. Clay/Lexi
So that's original? Good to know I thought someone added it as a cap.
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on February 12, 2025, 03:02:35 PMSo that's original? Good to know I thought someone added it as a cap.
I stand to be corrected, but these dog dish caps came with new cars from 1941 to 1949, then from 1950 with some model exceptions, until 1954. This topic came up in the old Mid-Century Cadillac Forum years ago, and I seem to recall that it was reported that midway during 1954 these items ceased to be put into any new cars. The fact that they remained in the MPL at least for a while after, tells me that they could still be purchased; but guessing that GM no longer wanted to include them in their new cars as a "give away". So 1953 would be the last FULL year that they were put in select Cadillac models. I thought I had something official from Cadillac here on them, paper wise, but so far I have not been able to locate it. If it turns up I will update this post. The caps that I have seen in the past were always grey in color and I assume these were in OEM condition, like apparently yours is. If anyone can add to this or make a correction, please let us know! They also were said to come; "
w/retainer", whatever that is. Any thoughts anyone? Clay/Lexi
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on February 12, 2025, 03:02:35 PMSo that's original? Good to know I thought someone added it as a cap.
Bugging me that I can't find the above noted reference, of which I think there is more than one. So I checked what I should have first, the Authenticity Manual, for 1954 - 1956 Cadillac. It says, (sic):
"
A spare tire is mounted vertically in the right side of the trunk and held in place by a folding arm
with a single nut, A plain metal hubcap was furnished on early l954 cars, but was discontinued
beginning with engine number 58988, according to the August 1954 Serviceman. Apparently cars
with wire or sabre wheels continued with hubcaps until engine number 40089 in l955. This from
the March, 1955 Serviceman."
Given time, I might pull those Serviceman issues and have a look.
A little more information is always good. I would encourage all to purchase the Authenticity Manual for their car from the CLC. Clay/Lexi
Quote from: Cadillac Jack 82 on February 12, 2025, 12:36:31 PMI do have a new series of questions. They are:
1. The vacuum antenna will retract, but won't go up. All I get is hissing indicating vacuum but no action. Rebuild time?
2. Radio seems non-op. I haven't checked fuses yet but I assume it too might need a rebuild.
3. Sluggish windows. They'll go up, they'll go down, but they move slow.
4. Discharge when headlights come on, but not with anything else. I have one of those repro DELCO batteries under the hood so perhaps its not fully charged?
Here's my 2 cents worth (based on my 1955 experience)
1. The vacuum antenna has vacuum hoses from the back of the radio to the antenna up and down ports on the antenna cylinder. If it comes down but won't go up, check that hose from the up port going on the radio to the top of the antenna cylinder. If it is broken, disconnected or leaking that could be the problem. Where do you hear the hissing, under the dash or outside by the antenna? It's easier to check the hose at the back of the radio than it is inside the fender at the antenna. Either way you have to get inside the fender to replace it. Also inside the antenna cylinder is a check valve washer, a black, plastic, flexible washer. In the pic it fits inside the indentation covering the four holes of the 'piston" piece below it. When air is sucked in one direction it is pulled up and covers the four holes on the the piston and pulls the piston and mast up. The bottom half of the piston (left side in pic) also has holes so when the bottom hose sucks it pulls the check valve and covers those hose and pulls the mast down. A defective (warped) washer will prevent a good seal. It could be warped such that it only works in one direction and will just suck air (hiss) in the other. Either way, you're looking at a rebuild of the antenna unless you can find someone to provide you the parts. Some of the old antennas had a separate check valve washer for up and down.
InternalParts-ebayListing.jpg
2. Radio seems non-op. Back in the day I would take out my radio, go to the corner Rexall Drug Store who had a tube tester and test all the tubes, then buy one to replace the defective one (usually the vibrator) and put all the tubes back in. Of course I'm assuming you checked the wiring and fuse to the radio first.
3. Sluggish windows I addressed in an early reply to this thread. Originally you mentioned only sluggish going up but since you received the car you say also going down. As mentioned in that reply lubrication of the rollers and regulator would help both the up and down sluggishness. My car also needed the channels re-aligned to prevent binding. As mentioned in 59-in-Pieces post after mine, down is handled by opening the hydraulic valve and a spring pushing the window down making the problem less likely the pump and more likely to be helped by lubrication.
4. With the old generators, the engine has to be in at least at fast idle to not discharge when headlights are on. Try it with the heater fans at full speed and you may see the same thing. It's not necessarily a bad generator, it just a feature of those old generators. I even had my battery go dead one time on a long trip in the snow (going slow) with the headlights on and the heater/defroster at full on.
2. Radio seems non-op. I haven't checked fuses yet but I assume
it too might need a rebuild.
Tim CLC Member #30850
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lots have been said about radios before. Of course you must have
good power, working antenna and speaker(s). I see it as 2 choices.
1. Send it to a specialist who will remove the guts and convert it
to AM, FM and/or any other mode you want, without changing its
external appearance;
2. Restore the radio to its original working state. At this age it most
certainly needs to come out and be totally recapped, probably the
vibrator must be replaced with an available solid state unit. Chances
are most of the tubes are OK, 0Z4 has a high failure rate, otherwise
they are available. Realign it.
On playing you may find the original internal speaker also needs
replacement. There is a jack for another speaker. Fortunately just
about any part needed to fix a quality old time radio is economically
available. For a 1950 Cadillac radio model 7258755 service info is
in SAMS AUTO RADIO AR-2, folder 2. It appears the 51 used the
same radio, though the part number changed.
good luck, Bruce Roe 14630
So good news.
The windows are fine. The repro battery was almost dead and died on my way to get a backup. They work well. Radio is inop and appears to be a Bluetooth rebuild from an original (they eventually fail). The rest is history. Doris made her first tour of the East Valley in true form. Impressive how this 331 is almost silent. Enjoy!
If anyone has a nice restored or clean core for the radio...please let me know.
I change my oil and filter every 2,000 miles on my 1958. Been doing so since it was new.
I do mine around 500 - 700 miles. Think the manual says every 2,000. Clay/Lexi
Sitting is just as bad or worse on oil as using the car is. At least when you drive it often, you boil the moisture out of the oil.
Tim,
The pic of the trunk and the spare tire gives new meaning to the term "Gangster Whites".
I was also interested in the "red" labeling for the trans fluid.
Is that a sticker (original or after market) or is it silk screened.
I've never seen anyone focus a pic in that area before.
Have fun,
Steve B.
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on February 18, 2025, 11:45:47 AMTim,
The pic of the trunk and the spare tire gives new meaning to the term "Gangster Whites".
I was also interested in the "red" labeling for the trans fluid.
Is that a sticker (original or after market) or is it silk screened.
I've never seen anyone focus a pic in that area before.
Have fun,
Steve B.
I'd like to chime in here the red decal labeling the fill spot for the transmission your asking about is original. The decal on his car is in very good shape which is cool. Very nice to see!
Doris will be out next weekend. She needs a coolant and oil change badly.