Many of the Cadillacs for sale on eBay have good pictures to view, I have learned very much factual information about many of these cars that have been discussed here, the bogus representations, ridiculous claims about the Cadillac marquee or bogus rarity of the car, etc.
The members that ask questions from the sellers sometimes get nasty replies, reality is reality.
Whenever somebody needs good info about their specific Cadillac the information is forthcoming: technical info, where to find parts, how to repair, etc.
I have no complaints with the message board contents or comments about any subject matter whatsoever, at any given time whoever is contributing, what you see is what you get.
Porter
Hello dear Mr.Porter: --Bravo!! Indeed, Porter knows whereof he speaks, --the more resources the merrier as to spark-up commentary; otherwise, this oftlively forum would loose its dynamics, --via mere static-dribble such as my own!.... ~Bob vH
I dont know if I would term your responses as static dribble but I do agree that eBay is a great source of so many things for this hobby, including views of cars we may not have experience with. Case in point is that most recent post of the 1938 Cadillac four door sedan on eBay.
Plus I have had excellent luck in finding parts and manuals for my interests on eBay that I may not have been able to find otherwise. So while I do agree we mmay have a few too many mindless posts the source is still a good resource.
Porter/Randall: -well not to belabor it to the point of being rather exemplary, but erperhaps i should have more concisely said "drivel" instead of "dribble"(as in drooling from ones mouth); -but well, you kindly caught the gist of my meaning... ~Bob vH
...just more gist for the mill. <G>
Mr. Von Heck,
Your eloquence is refreshing to say the least.
Al
If you do not know what you are doing e-bay can be disaster. I bought my 52 Cad off e-bay from a dealer in California. Most MISREPRESENTED vehicle I have ever seen, had to get a lawyer involved. Seller had pictures galore. What he said during phone conversations was that the car was BETTER than the pictures and we all know what pictures do.
The dealer was Phil Newey Sports Cars, La Habra, CA. E-bay can be a great source, however, it can also be your worse nightmare.
Ebay is a great resource, yes, but Ebay is not a great SUBJECT of discussion at all times. The dictionary is great resource too, but very few people read it for pleasure instead of magazines, books, etc.
The problem has become not only the frequency of Ebay posts (I logged on today and there were three in a row about cars on Ebay) but mainly the fact that little information accompanies the post.
Example: Topic: "Nice Cad on Ebay." The only text is a link to an Ebay auction. I dont have time or inclination to open 8,000 links and wait for all of the pictures to download just so I can see another 76 Eldorado convertible.
Another problem is that a lot of trash-talking of the sellers ends up here, and sometimes the sellers are CLC members. One of our rules is not to post disparaging remarks about anyone, and yet this happens frequently.
Ebay discussions have replaced real, meaningful conversation on the forum. I would rather have days where nothing is posted than days where there are a hundred replies about some dumb car auction, while people who ask questions are left unanswered because their posts have been moved down the list for lack of replies.
I am tired of the only posts being from certain people (you know who I mean) who only post links to things. The very least you could do is give a descriptive topic and a sentence or two of synopsis as to why the link is good.
Example: Topic: "Unusual 1968 Cadillac on Ebay." Text: "The car is Mary Kay pink with matching trim on the interior and the owner claims it was a one-off special custom ordered by Elvis."
That way people who dont have interest in it, dont waste time opening the subject at all, or going to the link hoping to see something interesting.
Two days ago I emailed Mike & Nancy Book and cancelled my CLC membership due to the declining state of this board. People who werent here regularly three or four years ago will never understand how bad it has gotten.
Derek
I have to agree about the trash talking (hard not to get caught up in it unfortunately). We should all know better but its human nature, and as it has been repeatedly expressed to me in so many ways, there seems to be no overcoming it. Not because its impossible to do so, but because people do not want to. Oh well.
I will miss Derek on this forum. He has been invaluable for my work on my 77 Eldorado Biarritz. Fortunately he is a friend so I will not lose him completely.
As clubs go, this is my favorite. JJust goes to show you should not rely on one thing, group or institution completely. :)
Randal & Al, -et al: -not a bad pun Randal, Oh but but now youve started something.... Our English Language (derived from Olde-german, the German king of England, --"Kings English"?) ... If youve learned to speak fluent English, you must be a genius! This little treatise on the curious language we share is only for the brave; -peruse at your leisure, English lovers and teachers all, -for reasons why the English language may be so difficult for us to learn:
>
>1) The bandage wound around the wound.
>2) The farm was used to produce produce.
>3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
>4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
>5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
>6) The soldier decided to desert his sour dessert in the desert.
>7) There being "no time like the present", -he thus thought it time to present the present.
>8) A bass fish-logo was painted on the head of the bass drum.
>9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
>10) I did not object to the object.
>11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
>12) There was a row among the row of Oarsmen about how to row.
>13) They were too close to the door to close it.
>14) The big buck does odd things when the attractive does are present.
>15) The seamstress is the sewer that objected to the odor of the sewer line.
>16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his smart sow to help sow the new crop.
>17) The wind was strong enough to wind the sails of the Oldmill.
>18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
>19) Seeing the tear in the painting, is enough to make one shed a tear.
>20) Without changing the subject, they had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
>21) How can one intimate this to their most intimate friend?
One might also do well to realize that.... -------------------------------
A.) Theres no egg in an eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English-muffins didnt originate in England, nor did French-fries originate in France. and Sweetmeats strangely are candies, while sweetbreads are an unsweet meat!
B.) Quicksand works slowly, boxing rings are square, and a guinea-pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.
C.) And why is it that writers write, but fingers dont fing; grocers dont groce; and hammers dont ham?
D.) If the plural of tooth is teeth, -why isnt the plural of booth then not beeth?
E.) One goose, two geese, thus one moose, two meese? Doesnt it seem strange that you can make amends, -yet not one amend.
F.) If teachers taught, -why then didnt preachers praught?
G.) If a vegetarian eats vegetables, -indeed then a humanitarian eats humans?
H.) In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?
I.) People can actually have noses that run, -and feet that smell?
J.) We ship by truck, -while sending cargo by ship?
K.) If you have a bunch of odds and ends as above, --then get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? --Is it an odd, or an end?
L.) French-explorer Cadillac would have been astonished to drive a Cadillac bearing a facsimile-Logo of his family Heraldry!
(Hey, -although not quite succinct, just thought ide throw this last one in for its aptness!)...
It is very unfortunate that you took your distaste for Ebay postings to the extreme and have decided to leave the CLC. Would it have not been easier just not to click on and open the offending Ebay posts? We are all entitled to our own opinions and I for one enjoy the Ebay posts. It provides invaluable information to some of us. A few months ago someone posted a link to an auction for a Talisman, I saw for the first time pictures of a Talisman with air bags. The seller had also provided scans of the original brochures from Cadillac. I do not think I will ever get to see something like that in person.
You had also suggest that posts go unanswered due to a high volume of new posts. I would advise all members take the time to review the last 2-3 pages of posts. Sometimes things get bumped, that’s the nature of onlone forums.
Dear Derek: -you make a really excellent point about the importance of courteously/thoughtfully providing a hint in the Subject-box as to the essence of their Topic, --but why go to the extreme of "throwing the baby out with the bath-water" by abandoning us; --why not remain a valued participating member, in as much as the above suggestion you offer is something that would definitely be a constructive improvement to our respective "Forum-decorum" so to speak, ---------while i trust we will all now endeavor to follow your sincere advise.... "BY BETTER DEFINING OUR TOPIC-HEADERS"
~Bob vH
"Two days ago I emailed Mike & Nancy Book and cancelled my CLC membership due to the declining state of this board. People who werent here regularly three or four years ago will never understand how bad it has gotten." (Derek)
If his only complaint were the "declining state of this board" why would Derek cancel his Club membership? Perhaps Dereks membership was at its expiration and he chose not to renew. But to cancel mid-year would lead me to think that there was some other underlying cause.
If Derek only had disagreement with the state of the Message Forum it is as easy as not to log on but to still be able to enjoy the camaraderie of the Club through the Self Starter and Regional events.
It is a shame to lose a member - it would be beneficial to all to determine if there were another cause.
I agree with Porter on this, but even if I didnt, it wouldnt matter to me. I have discovered cars and information I wouldnt have otherwise when I scan the message board including the Ebay items (its the first thing I check when I log on to the internet). I read the items that are of interest to me and skip the others, the same procedure I use when I go to an auto show,Barnes and Noble, the library, and Wal-Mart or run through old cars on Ebay. If I begin to read something I thought would interest me and it doesnt, I just go on to something else and leave that item for someone else to enjoy or ignore. I subscribe to XM satellite radio and listen to about 10 channels regularly;that leaves about 100 more that I couldnt care less about, but I still enjoy the service. All this, I think, just proves that the world is made up of people who have varied interests and todays world is designed for just such people. Im sorry the club is losing Derek over the Message Board; many of us were members years before we had computers and the club had the Board and Im sure most of that group would continue to belong to the CLC if the Board ceased to exist.
And at times, Mark, you simply lose interest. There may be no immediate or obvious reason other than it has simply played out for that person. Been there many times.
I recently picked up a 67 CDV and posted an eBay 67 Calais/CDV, I was curious about this car, had Ralph Messina decode the trim plate and posted his findings for all to see.
Just a Calais with CDV scripts. Im no expert on these old Cadillacs so for me it was a learning experience. I spent my younger days as a Corvette expert with the fact books, etc.
I find the pictures a handy reference and store many of them for the same year Cadillacs I have.
Much of this collector car hobby is about authenticity, Im no advocate of the message board becoming an eBay Cadillac critique society but if an interesting car comes up with fictious claims there are enough experts here to debunk those claims, usually the factual information on the alleged rare car is stated as such, therefore I gain valuable authentic Cadillac information.
Many post are about "what is this Cadillac worth" ? the authenticity , mileage, condition etc. are all required to determine a fair or actual market value.
I have yet to see anyone "wanting" for technical drivetrain or electrical info, where to get parts, etc.
I too find some posts not in my interest or petty and argumentative so I stay out of them.
Hopefully I occasionally have some good info of use to somebody, as rare as that occasion may be. Mostly 66 CDV stuff.
Best regards to all Cadillac aficionados of all shapes, fins , engines, sedans, coupes, convertibles, limos, phaetons, custom, etc. , whether a lowly model or a rare example, they are all Cadillacs, our preferred brand.
Porter
Too bad, Derek.
I have stated at least a couple of times that all the e-bay posts here are more or less taking over. Our critique of them can be and is often educational, but it is becoming too much of a so-called good thing. It is becoming like reality TV. At first there was a mild curiosity, but now it has become all encompassing and in many cases downright annoying.
Again, should we not have a separate forum for this?
For the most part I simply ignore them, but once in a while a description catches my interest and Ill at least take a look. It rarely goes beyond that. But usually, the extra window just slows my machine down even more.
Again, it is too bad that you have chosen to abandon a good thing for what I hope is a passing interest. This forum really goes beyond that. The information passed on here is very educational, weather or not it has a direct use to you. More things learned about our favourite marque that perhaps we would not otherwise have a chance of knowing.
Also, the comraderie here is wonderful. Some recent posts notwithstanding. I have met some good friends here, you included, that I would not have had a chance of getting to know otherwise.
We will miss you here, and I do hope that in the future, you will reconsider.
Mike
I can shed some light on this. As a member in south-central PA, I am at least two hours from any regional events, the closest active regions to me being the Valley Forge Region in PA, and the Lower Chesapeake Region in MD. Most if not all of my interaction with other club members comes through the message forum; indeed, aside from a few articles written for the Self-Starter, and my founding the HT4100 Chapter, it has really been my only direct link to the club.
Years ago when I got my first Cadillac I was so impressed with the politeness, help, and genuine interest in others that I found here on the board, I joined on the strength of that alone, knowing that I would most likely NOT be involved in any of the in-person events due to their distance and my schedule. Six Cadillacs later, I am still a dues-paying member and still around the board despite the many changes that have, for the most part, improved it. At one time I had plans of eventually becoming a lifetime member and have stayed in the club until recently with that goal in mind.
The board has been my best method of staying involved in the club and quite frankly, it has gotten to be so pointless, I rarely come here at all except out of boredom, or when prompted by other members via email ("hey, look at this post about fixing a convertible top, etc.")
My membership was good through October of 2005 but I decided "Why wait for it to expire?" January is a good time as any to evaluate ones life and remove clutter, etc.
I do receive and like the Self-Starter and even having written several articles for it, I find that the majority of the material is irrelevant to me as a young man unable to afford pre-war cars, which are the main focus of the club. So while I will miss that somewhat, I can honestly say that most issues come to my mailbox and are skimmed at best or left unread entirely due to their lack of content material that would help me as an owner of mostly late 1960s (68+) to 1980s Cadillacs.
Also the general mood of the board has declined and there are a lot of anonymous non-members or people who do not adhere to the rules anymore at all. For the record, identity theft is a poor reason not to include your last name or CLC # (a common courtesy!) when posting. I did this with every post for years now, but since no one else really obeys the rules, why waste the extra time typing those extra characters.
Regards,
Derek
Bill,
Its simple not to open the Ebay posts, and honestly, I dont open them anymore. My complaint is that the level of discourse here has degenerated due to the posts and subsequently Ebay has become the only prompt for discussion.
You make a good point, members should endeavor to check out the last few pages of posts. I am not fretting things getting bumped due to frequency of other responses as much as I am bothered by how many good people have left quietly because of so little information being shared about other subjects.
For example, a good friend and CLC member who owns both a 55 and a 75 Cadillac, and who used to post quite regularly, recently told me in a phone conversation that he had stopped coming around the forum back when the "Dale Jackson" saga started. An example of how one frequent annoyance poster can really detract from the whole experience. Since then he has made a few attempts to come back and get into the swing of things again, but each time he asks technical questions, they go unanswered in favor of the Ebay posts and the "shanghaing" and other silliness.
With the exception of a few good mechanical members, very little of the discourse anymore involves solving problems; I doubt I could get advice on how to troubleshoot an electrical problem, but there are literally dozens of people hanging around who will banter on and on about irrelevant stuff to the exclusion of Cadillac discussion.
Any time I bring this up, people act like I am saying that the Emperor has no clothes. There is a lot of mindless cheerleading for the board, the club, etc., but no willingness to address issues that could make things better.
Come on, doesnt anyone else see this but me?
Derek
Your analogy to radio stations is good, however, imagine if every time you turned on that station, it was playing the same song every ten minutes.
Now you have a picture of what I see when I surf by the message board and find 50 Ebay posts or Ebay-related threads every morning.
Like a dysfunctional family, it has become easier to sit at the dinner table in silence than to raise a discussion. Or, a better picture, it seems like some people cant stand silence, and so they are always trying to stir up discussion. Ebay has taken the place of important discussion by just being a "check this out" quick-fix to get replies.
It used to be that if I logged on and found no new posts since the last time I had visited, it was not a big deal. However, I guess some members would prefer to always be hopping with new posts, and Ebay has proven invaluable for generating these things.
Why discuss matters that are of no importance at all? We all know that people dont know what theyre talking about sometimes when they sell a car on Ebay; we all know that ridiculous lies are told every day in auctions, etc. But we dont all go stand around the car lot to point and laugh when the salesman is schmoozing some poor sucker into buying a new car with untruths. Thats basically what Ebay is -- pointing and laughing at the ill-informed, the uneducated, those with questionable intentions. Its only funny for so long.
Regards,
Derek
Robert,
I wish I could believe that my suggestion would be followed. I do think that it would make it a more user-friendly forum for all concerned. However, when most of the posters are no longer obeying the "Golden Rules" of the CLC forum, it seems unlikely that they will voluntarily obey any "suggested rules" put forth by members. An exercise in futility.
Regards,
Derek
...Besides our friendship, we also share the curse of dial-up internet, which makes the Ebay posts basically unusable. My computer is older (upgrading is a low priority with my recent house purchase) and often the size and Javascript inclusions in the Ebay links lock up my older Netscape version entirely, which is more than just frustrating.
My biggest complaint is that very little of the information being passed around is of use to anyone right now, beyond idle discussion of Ebay oddities, etc. It has been a pleasure participating in the forum, and I appreciate everyone I have met in it and will continue to stay in contact with them.
Perhaps a separate forum for the Ebay posts would be better, that way at least if people had an inclination to view them, they could.
Derek
I dont know what to tell you. I know of several long term members who only show up now and then. Perhaps this is simply the cycle of life in such things...new people come in, enjoy the commeraderie and the technical side slips into obscurity. I know I have very little to offer. I hope I have not been part of this. But I do see what you are saying and, as I have said before, have experienced it on another large forum.
As our love of the marque changes and new voices are added, the older thrust is shifted. Better, or not...it seems to be a common occurance in the life of any public forum.
I am a member of three major automobile clubs, the AACA, CCCA and CLC as well as the SCCA. Of all of these groups with all of their assundry members and perspectives, the CLC is closest to my heart. If I end up dropping one, it will be the AACA. My son races in the SCCA so I will keep it.
But no matter what, I will try and keep the good friends I have made over the years. I know that is true of Derek as well.
"They will get my antique Cadillac when they pry my cold, dead fingers from the steering wheel!!" :)
Club members and non members desire to own vintage Cadillacs and enjoy owning them and driving them, not an overpriced misrepesented nightmare.
Many people have a misconception of what these cars are worth, good cars are worthy of top dollar, much cheaper than restoring a POS.
The purpose of the club is to "develop, publish and exchange information pertaining to Cadillacs and LaSalles, to encourage the maintenance, preservation and restoration of Cadillacs and LaSalles, and to promote social fellowship among Club members."
That is the problem with e**y, people buying cars sight unseen and getting stuck, buying a car based on photos.
I have gotten to know some members here that bought sight unseen,(photos) a disaster,that will turn people away from even owning or having any interest in a vintage car, never again. Even hiring an appraiser can be a disaster. The only knowledgeable Cadillac people I have seen is within the club.
Perhaps a seprate forum for e**y cars is a good idea if it irritates smoe people so severly.
Anyone with good money that needs help assessing the value of a vintage Cadillac is a worthy discussion, probably some money to be made by some of the Cadillac experts here assesing these cars, it has been requested on the forum from members. I dont advocate beating fraudulant e**y cars to death as a national pastime.
There is a time and place for that, but not every other post.
Porter
Sorry to see you go, Derek. I, for one, have enjoyed your posts and magazine articles. I have generally answered a technical question when I know the answer, but I get tired of being "corrected" and then having to respond to that or else just letting it roll on. Several months ago I submitted some technical articles on 68 Cadillacs to the magazine in which you and others might have been interested. But to be nice, it didnt go well with our new illustrious editor. So what do I do? Its the clubs loss. As far as this board, I breeze past all the ebay stuff too, and generally anything else that gets more than about 6 responses long, as that seems to be about shanghai time. The length of some of these has been ridiculous. I dont have the time to read all this stuff. I read what interests me and ignore what doesnt. Youll be missed. Sorry to see you go.
Lynn
Wow I stay away from the message board for a few hours and come back to a tsumami explosion of posts concerning ebay and, ironically the quality of posts on the board LOL. I could be argued that this whole thread about meaningless threads is meaningless LOL.
I frequent about 10 different message boards of very diversified subjects, and believe me they all are guilty of "straying from topic". I go on the Eagles message board, and some lunatic comes in with stock investment tips! My standard practice is to check out the "subject", if it doesnt interest me, I just delete it and go on. When I come on the CLC message board, I first hit the "View new posts" tab. The way the board is set up, no matter how much the post will be buried, it will be brought to your attention. Frankly I see message boards going the same way as face to face dialogues among people. Any time you are in a group of people, even with a common interest, the conversations always go all over the place.
On a message board about Cadillacs ?
I fully understand Dereks viewpoint and glad I brought this topic up for discussion, this was my knee jerk reaction to the 57 Eldorado "Sans" Brougham discussion, after the dust had settled.
I dont really take offense to anyones comments or where the topic strays too, funny thing is, it always starts out with Cadillac and sometimes gets "shanghaied", no big deal.
Any real Cadillac questions get answered from what Ive seen, winter time is slow for cars, sometimes you need some filler posts, no prob.
We are all aficianados of Cadillacs but share other knowledge as well, no harm done.
LOL,
Porter
Porter,
You are right, it wouldnt be so bad if it was a once-in-awhile thing, where someone is saying "Hey guys, critique this car for me, Im really thinking about bidding some of my hard-earned cash." That would advance the purposes of the club as well as to actively help members.
However, 99.9percent of the time its just a post to say how stupid the seller is, how stupid the bidders are for bidding on that POS, and hahah arent we superior because we know theres no such thing as an "1919 Eldorado Seville Calais Biarritz Convertible Sedan."
It just gets old, thats all. And it does take a lot of time to sift through the junk to find the posts from people who are legitimately in need as opposed to the Ebay posts.
Derek
I think the root of the problem is everyone is discussing all sorts of things on the same forum. The Ebay stuff should be under general CADILLAC discussion. There should be a separate forum for technical discussions and another for general conversation. Problem 1/2 solved. I know that most people dint like the idea of registration. But consider this,In a recent post someone made a statement about changing the facts on the history of a Cadillac. Quite a few(including myself)began to doubt this persons masterpiece. The comment was far out there, I really thought that someone used his name just to "stir the pot". The only way I could think of to verify the author was to ask for full disclosure. Thankfully The person explained his comment. The point is , If we get one agitator/troll on this board it could and will turn a lot of people off to the board and even potentially cause bad blood between CL members. Its to risky to continue this way.
Regards, Lou
Good conversation among intelligent people does stray from the topic or else it wouldnt be conversation, it would be merely stating facts and thats it. Im not bothered by discussing, say, real estate in a Cadillac forum, or whatever.
The main thing that bugs me is the hugeness that some threads develop where it starts with something insipid, like a link to a car with no picture of the passenger side seat headrest. Then it turns into a flood of one-word replies and short barbs:
MAIN TOPIC: Check out this Rare Cad:!!
Link to Ebay.
1st reply: "Hahaha, a 4 door Brougham convertible? Any dumb*** knows thats not real."
2nd reply: "Yeah!"
3rd reply: "I agree."
4th reply: "No way, 4 door Broughams were made for 10 minutes on Tuesday, January 17th, 1965, as part of a UAW strike agreement against the manufacturers."
5th reply: "I am amazed by the number of people who STILL dont realize what a great resource they have in the Cadillac Database. From my own files: (proceed to condescending and long-winded description of the myth of the 4-door Brougham convertible.)"
6th reply: "No way."
7th reply: "One passed me going southbound on 117 when I was 5 years old and my parents were taking us to Disneyland one year."
8th reply: "You like Disneyland too? Cool."
etc. etc.
Derek
I agree with Dereks observations about the decline of technical assistance in the postings, and the increase in meaningless tangent issues. The Dale Jackson postings were the worst case, but even now three 40+ response threads push everything out.
I do think a new forum would solve some of the issue. . .
Other clubs have different areas of disfunction.
When I was in my early 20s, I owned a 67 Eldo, which was rarely covered in the literature from the club (this is 1991) and there was no local chapter. (In fact, the local chapter just started in my area this year). The only thing membership got me was a magazine. I have learned alot about Cadillacs that I otherwise would have remained completely ignorant of by reading it. I think the club is slowly shifting to an appreciation to the models of the 60s and 70s as members age. So Derek, please check back in a few weeks or months, when the Board may be less irritating. Your posts were valued by me, and I dont own an Eldo! Just thought they were well done.
While I agree with Lou that even one troll can cause huge problems, I think the answer is more vigilant moderation of the posts, rather than registration or a plethora of forums.
To address the "separate forums for each subject" issue, I would direct anyone who is inclined to visit the LCOC board at
www.lcoc.com. They have a forum for each different possible topic: Engine/transmission, Body/electrical, etc. etc. The problem with this is that the only forum that is regularly visited is the "Engine/Transmission" forum, which has become the de facto "general" forum for their organization. Having made posts in their other forums that go unnoticed for weeks, many members (myself included) started just posting everything under the "Engine/Transmission" forum, and linking it to engines or drivetrains incidentally.
Example: "My Lincolns steering column needs rebuilt because the engine wont start due to a faulty ignition actuator arm. Anyone have any ideas about how to do this?"
Sure, you post it under Electrical, or Interior, or wherever it might be better suited, but you will probably get no answer because increasing the number of forums exponentially increases the number of messages and sites each person must visit when they log in. An "Ebay Only" discussion forum would remove that volume of posts from our General Discussion board without preventing those so inclined to see it from doing so.
Second, the issue of registration has often been discussed, but I think the most salient point is the idea that it is yet another hurdle to membership for most people. I have so many passwords and login names on the Net just to do things like check email and student loans, etc., I can barely remember them, and I am young!! Adding another password or login name makes it that much more hassle, and also more work for the webmaster, as people are constantly forgetting.
I stopped visiting the LCOC forum after forgetting my THIRD new login name and password because, not being a frequent contributor, I would often forget which password I had used, or how I had set up my login name. Was I "1984Lincoln?" "84TownCar?" Or "Dsherwood?" And what password did I link with that, anyway?
The key is to have moderators who are regularly zapping posts from trolls and others. The moderators at
www.subguns.com, another board I frequent, are VERY quick and VERY serious about trolls, imposter posting, and enforcing the rules, and it generally leads to a pretty stable environment without registration. Anonymous posting is even allowed within the rules of the forum, but nudity, swearing, etc., are not, and are strictly regulated.
Regards,
Derek
Andrew,
I always enjoyed your posts, too, they were interesting and often of a technical nature. I like replying to posts about car problems or any other issues, but as others have said, I am often hesitant to do so anymore because of the fear of sarcastic correction if a small mistake is made, or even of the entire post getting buried in the constant snowballing of 40+ reply nonsense posts. Lately I find myself cancelling more posts than I make.
I have learned a lot from the magazine too but lately, although it is still very well done (thanks Steve!) it has a lot of meaningless information to me as a young guy.
Like you say, appreciation is starting to move to the cars of the 1960s and 70s, but it is happening slowly. I am willing to bet that it will be 5-10 years yet before they are appreciated. I was born in 1978, and Im nowhere near a classic yet. LOL.
Another thing about the club on a slightly unrelated note is the "high school student-council-like" self-appreciation and back patting that happens at the executive level. There are a lot of unanswered questions I have about that whole thing. It seems there is still a strong contingent of "good old boys" who run the whole show and basically ensure that the 41 Cad is still the most popular and most discussed model in the organization. There is still a strong resistance to modification or even discussion of newer Cadillacs -- witness Stampies troubles getting the Modified Chapter started and approved.
Regards,
Derek
Lynn,
Thanks for the compliments. I agree with you, I find myself cancelling posts because I dont feel like subjecting myself to nit-pickers and random criticism. I appreciate constructive criticism -- if I tell someone that it doesnt matter what size spark plugs you use, PLEASE, tell me about it!! But there is a general shift towards unconstructive and even sarcastic criticism and questioning going on among members that troubles me.
Witness the posts made to people like Peter Luft in the "Buy/Sell Board," or even when I posted a query about dieseling on my 72 Eldo, and I got the response "Is this the same car you are trying to unload on CLC members?" (this from someone who didnt post a real name or email address!) Im sorry, this is supposed to be a hobby and be fun, not a live-fire drill where you have to duck and cover to avoid personal attacks whenever you post a message.
I would love to read your 68 Cadillac tech articles, thats the kind of stuff I like to see in the Self-Starter, although lately I havent seen anything like it. Please email them to me if you get a chance, Id really like to read them. That kind of information is relevant and interesting to me as a former 68 Cadillac owner and I wish we had more of that in our magazine, and less "From the Cadillac Mailing List Archives" email reprints.
I still have a few articles on reserve somewhere in the editors files, Im not worried about them getting printed or not, like I said to him in an email "the name of the magazine isnt "Derek Sherwoods Self-Starter." But like your articles, it would be nice to see them printed because they would be of interest to many.
Regards,
Derek
I have been regularly reading and posting here since I purchased my 76 Eldo this fall. I have also been a regular on the HT4100 board, which is completely different, and sticks to technical topics and sharing of parts and information.
I would hate to see Derek go, because he is a very knowledgable hobbyist, and has been helpful to me on many occasions. I have been "into" Cadillacs since 1964 as a small kid when my Dad bought a brand new SDV and we took a cross country trip in it.
I have owned many Cadillacs, all convertibles since the late 70s, and find the internet a fantastic information resource, but you need to be very careful about taking what you see and read as total fact.
I think that the Ebay topic is a source of irritation sometimes because you have to realize that there are many people who range from novice collectors who dont know any better to blatant thieves and frauds looking to scam the uninformed.
I have sold cars on Ebay, I have bought cars on ebay, and have gotten great deals on both cars, parts, and literature. That being said, let me tell you that I never sent anyone any money on a car sight unseen, and always bought cars that were within a days drive and picked them up personally, after inspecting the vehicle. If you ask the right questions, the liars will easily reveal themselves. Also, dont make it strictly an email transaction. Ask for a phone number, and converse on the phone. You can tell a lot about the type of person that you are potentially dealing with by their demeanor on the phone, and things you might hear in the background during a conversation.
You have to treat an internet purchase just like buying any used car, and you cant depend on the buyer to represent the car honestly either out of ignorance or just plain deception.
You can walk away from a transaction if you need to. I cant understand buying a car, paying for it, and having it shipped to you. If you are buying a parts car, or resto project, thats fine, but if you are buying a running vehicle, and you dont drive it and inspect it yourself, you get what you get.
I have sold cars that were paid for and then shipped, and never had a complaint upon delivery, but they were honestly represented, even understated slightly.
As far as this message board is concerned, I think that if there were more topics at the beginning of the page, you could simply post or read what you may be interested in so you dont have to wade through things you are not interested in. Here is a suggested list:
1. Info Needed ( specifications, etc)
2. Drivability issues (Car wont start, vibration, electrical problems, etc.
3. Tech tips (heres how I fixed...)
4. Cars for Sale
5. Parts for Sale
6. Literature for Sale
7. Cars Wanted
8. Parts Wanted
9. Literature Wanted
10. Ebay discussion
The last time I made a suggestion about using passcodes to post, it was not very well recieved, and I will probably get slammed for this one too, but Derek does have a point, and remember, for every dissatisfied person that complains, there are 10 that just dissapear.
Anyway, just my thoughts...
Brian
Derek,
Get ready to learn more than you ever thought you could know about the cam design on the 472/500 engines. Lynn is an expert on these engines and I wish his information would get out more to the members and non members interested in it.
Stampie
I have been regularly reading and posting here since I purchased my 76 Eldo this fall. I have also been a regular on the HT4100 board, which is completely different, and sticks to technical topics and sharing of parts and information.
I would hate to see Derek go, because he is a very knowledgable hobbyist, and has been helpful to me on many occasions. I have been "into" Cadillacs since 1964 as a small kid when my Dad bought a brand new SDV and we took a cross country trip in it.
I have owned many Cadillacs, all convertibles since the late 70s, and find the internet a fantastic information resource, but you need to be very careful about taking what you see and read as total fact.
I think that the Ebay topic is a source of irritation sometimes because you have to realize that there are many people who range from novice collectors who dont know any better to blatant thieves and frauds looking to scam the uninformed.
I have sold cars on Ebay, I have bought cars on ebay, and have gotten great deals on both cars, parts, and literature. That being said, let me tell you that I never sent anyone any money on a car sight unseen, and always bought cars that were within a days drive and picked them up personally, after inspecting the vehicle. If you ask the right questions, the liars will easily reveal themselves. Also, dont make it strictly an email transaction. Ask for a phone number, and converse on the phone. You can tell a lot about the type of person that you are potentially dealing with by their demeanor on the phone, and things you might hear in the background during a conversation.
You have to treat an internet purchase just like buying any used car, and you cant depend on the buyer to represent the car honestly either out of ignorance or just plain deception.
You can walk away from a transaction if you need to. I cant understand buying a car, paying for it, and having it shipped to you. If you are buying a parts car, or resto project, thats fine, but if you are buying a running vehicle, and you dont drive it and inspect it yourself, you get what you get.
I have sold cars that were paid for and then shipped, and never had a complaint upon delivery, but they were honestly represented, even understated slightly.
As far as this message board is concerned, I think that if there were more topics at the beginning of the page, you could simply post or read what you may be interested in so you dont have to wade through things you are not interested in. Here is a suggested list:
1. Info Needed ( specifications, etc)
2. Drivability issues (Car wont start, vibration, electrical problems, etc.
3. Tech tips (heres how I fixed...)
4. Cars for Sale
5. Parts for Sale
6. Literature for Sale
7. Cars Wanted
8. Parts Wanted
9. Literature Wanted
10. Ebay discussion
The last time I made a suggestion about using passcodes to post, it was not very well recieved, and I will probably get slammed for this one too, but Derek does have a point, and remember, for every dissatisfied person that complains, there are 10 that just dissapear.
Anyway, just my thoughts...
Brian
Ill be the first to admit that I pay virtually no attention to the politics of this organization, as I am already pissed off at enough of the world, and therefore just prefer to think "happy thoughts" of all who reside within the Cadillac family.
What can I say, Im an idiot!!
Honestly, life is too short, even at 24 Derek, to let a little bureacratic nonsense get you down. I know that sounds age condescending, but it truly is not meant to be. I also own a 1979 Mercedes 6.9 (not worth crap), and the club associated with it had so much internal fighting that a separate club was started. This for a car with total production of less than 1900 vehicles in 4 years. Clubs should be more tolerant, but life can be hard.
Although I prefer the original stuff without modifications, I also prefer not dieing in traffic, so safety modifications are fine by me. Cars from 67 and before are not safe as designed for modern accident avoidance on a freeway. I have almost bifurcated a Honda on more than one occasion. Thank God for leather seats:)
Anyway, if "Pimp my Ride" and "Monster Garage" is any indication, modifications will keep growing, but originals will always be there too. I wish the club realized that modified vehicles are not inherently evil. Also, I need to learn how to weld, and who else will be able to answer my questions on the Board when I accidently cut a fender off?
Moderation would work, but it wont stop a troll from stealing the ID of another member on this forum. The only way is sign ons with a post count next to the sig. Eagle eye moderators will pick out a troll easy. Here is my other favorite stomping ground. There is 47,000 members.They average 2000 post a day. With only a hand full of hard line moderators.
http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/ For me its just as hard to remember my CLC# never mind a pass word ;) Stick around Derek, Us 70s guys need to stay together.
I only know of one post recently that was done by an impostor. As I was the one being imposed on and no one else ever mentioned it to me I assume it was handled in a quick and effiecent mannor. There are moderators on the board but the line imho is very fine. What post belongs where? Should this post be allowed because it has some technical merrit but might say something bad about a vendor? The moderators of this forum do a good job and try to be timely but if they go too far then the help for those that need it disappears because of no freedom of expression.
My 2 cents,
Stampie
PS - The offending post mentioned above was traced to the real person that posted it and the issue was resovled easily.
I just wanted to correct this a little. After trying to get this started the CLC was willing to at least give me/us a chance. The problem is that I could not get enough members (only 10 needed) at the time to get it formed.
If I could get 10 memembers to start the Chapter then Im willing to give it a go. Other wise Ill try and get a Cadillac Last Big Block (472/500/425/368) chapter going as there is enough interest in it.
Also I agree in the interest in the 60s and 70s. I own two Cadillacs right now. One what I consider an old school 60 and one a new school 70. I remember when a post about a 60 would out number a 70 ten to one but lately it does seem like more post are about the newer Cadillacs.
Stampie
I dont think its an issue now. But it will be. It happens on every forum out there. This forum has grown a lot in the 4+ years I have been surfing it. Just look at all the post lately. The issue is the direction this site is taking not where it has been. Regards,Lou
Stampie is right...I may not have one but I would love to have them to read. Understanding only comes from exposure. If all you are exposed to is that which you already know, then you will learn a whole lot slower.
Randall,
That email I sent to you about the vacuume routing for better performace and mileage was direct information provided by Lynn also. Personally I thought yes it might help but I was amazed at the difference it made on a 70 SDV.
Stampie
That is why we spend lots of money and time restoring old Cadillacs, that is our choice.
Any normal person wants nothing to do with these old cars, too much work ,expense and trouble to own but they dont appreciate these old cars.
They make payments and buy (or lease) new ones all the time and are busy with whatever their hobbies are, maybe more time consuming or expensive than our car hobby but more rewarding to them.
Now that Im guilty of starting posts to rival the length and controversy of Dale Jackson Im ready to just lay low and stick to the basics, help with Cadillac restoration.
Porter
Stampie, you know I would be happy to be a part of any chapter you guys come up with...modified or otherwise. I own and love ALL Cadillacs of collectable age (I like the new ones but for the life of me....no.....I just cannot find the money to BUY one <G>). As we all know I have a 1977 Eldo...a 1947 Sedan and a wonderful 1956 62 sedan....all wonderful cars. I would LOVE a 1960 or a 1965 or...well you get the picture.
I am by and large an Original kind of guy. But I can see what you can learn and experience with modifications...the sheer inventiveness, even artistic nature to do so. No I am not thrilled with hot rods but what the heck? Its no big deal.
I was thinking today about the year 2012 and how I might be restricted from driving my 1956 Cadillac fossel fuel engine. I would pull it, restore it and display it, then install an appropriate powerplant and enjoy my car. I know that sounds like heresy but I would rather drive my 56 than something I do not want. So modifications make sense.
Derek: you post about "straying topics" is just one of many of your great satirical posts!!!! I know that I am not alone in people that enjoy your sense of humor. You have that rare ability to get your point across with humor and intelligence. Many of our correspondence has made me have to use the web to decipher your point LOL. Have you ever read the Philadelphia Daily News sports columnists Bill Conlin? Each of his columns is masterpiece. He mixes a history lesson in writing about a "baseball game". PLEASE continue to post, even if its to "vent your frustration".....
Regarding:
" Another thing about the club on a slightly unrelated note is the "high school student-council-like" self-appreciation and back patting that happens at the executive level. There are a lot of unanswered questions I have about that whole thing. It seems there is still a strong contingent of "good old boys" who run the whole show and basically ensure that the 41 Cad is still the most popular and most discussed model in the organization. There is still a strong resistance to modification or even discussion of newer Cadillacs -- witness Stampies troubles getting the Modified Chapter started and approved."
I think this situation is slowly changing, witness the recent "youth movement" the club is undertaking. I think like any large organization, the boys at the top, get to run the whole show, but I would remind, the show in this case is quite a big undertaking, and they arent going to please everyone. I have a been a member for almost 25 years and have seen the many changes, mainly good. In our region, The Valley Forge Region, I have seen more of a shift toward the newer cars of the 60s, 70s and 80s. I personally know some of the boys at the top, and I have to say, that they dont approach their postion with the "good old boy" mentality. Everyone of them trys to make the club and region a great experience for ALL members, regardless of the age of the member or the members car.
Seriously, for Lynn to consider, is putting up a small bare-bones website with the text of his articles on it. I did it when my convertible top article wasnt being published after almost 6 months. I felt it was important enough to start putting it out there for people on my own. Phil Remaker from the CML was nice enough to give me space on his website to post it. It quickly became the #3 searched item for "scissor top" on Yahoo, and stayed that way for a long time. It has since dropped a bit and I havent checked where it ranks in many months.
If you have any inclination to get things published whether or not "the man" will assist you, its easy to get exposure on the web. Its better than posting them here, too, because they wont disappear down the list after a few days.
Derek
The moderators on the board I believe DO perform excellently and transparently. I was just suggesting that perhaps instead of registration if trolling, etc., were to become a problem, that it could be solved by stringent moderation.
At the current time I wouldnt suggest changing anything about the moderation of the board.
Regards,
Derek
I would be willing to offer webspace to anyone here willing to put the basic page together. I will also help in any way that I can to teach them how to do a webpage.
Derek if you dont mind I would like to mirror your page as two copies is always better than one in the internet age.
Thanks,
Stampie
Michael,
Mirror away, that sounds like a good idea. I still get calls and emails from people wanting to read the article because they have a top problem, and I usually refer them to the website. Having another website to refer them to in case of problems would be excellent.
Derek
Johnny,
I agree with you, there are always good and bad people in every position, and I know some of the guys who are now on the national Board of Directors personally and they are good guys with newer interests and good ideas. I think things will change with time and like you say, you cant please everyone all of the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. :)
Regards,
Derek
Brian,
Agreed, the EBay experience can be perfectly summed up in the information you have just presented. Its like anything else, buyer beware. I have bought good and bad cars out of the newspaper and I have had good and bad experiences on Ebay, and you just have to take the good with the bad and hedge your bets as best you can.
Ill always be available for consultation via email, LOL. I think maybe I just need to take a break for awhile and see if things are any better when I come back.
Regards,
Derek
Michael,
Thanks for clearing that up, the last I had heard it sounded like you had basically been stonewalled out of the "Modified" chapter and had switched to the Big Block idea because of that. I stand corrected.
Regards,
Derek
"Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in."
John, thanks for your kind words, I appreciate it. I may be around now and again to add 2 cents to the kitty but I really feel as though for the most part its not worth the hassle anymore, what with the hecklers, etc. that have come to roost here of late. I can count on both hands the number of really great CLC guys who still post here, a lot of the rest are questionable, and its not worth being hassled just to try to help someone fix their blower motor or something, as often happens. Theres a lot of sniping taking place lately, sort of indicative of a general loss of courtesy all around. I always viewed the CLC members as the most approachable and down-to-earth car guys, and for the most part, they still are.
Lately though the "juice isnt worth the squeeze" when it comes to trying to find the good in the forum.
Regards,
Derek
I think we have a lot in common just from your statement about being pissed off at most of the world in general, LOL. Im a pretty easygoing guy and its HARD to get me mad but overblown bureacracy and political nonsense will do it everytime. In fact, rather than get POd, I generally just tend to walk away. Ive always been more like the Clint Eastwood character than the Jimmy Stewart role -- Id rather ride off into the sunset than stick around and try to effect change.
Thats why I figured Id make a short statement to speak for those who just drifted away, and then Id part amicably with an organization which has given me a lot, but which I feel no longer meets my interests or expectations in its current incarnation.
Like you say, it would be nice if the club (if more clubs, in fact) would give up their stigma about modification (Disc brakes?? -95 points!! No soup for you!) and realized that, to stay solvent in todays world, we need to stick together.
A good example is how badly the classic car owners in CA are being screwed by the removal of the age exemption for smog checks. Did you know that GM was one of the driving forces behind the bill to remove the exemption? Theres a great article in one of the recent car rags I was skimming at Wal-Mart that basically laid bare the fact that GM purports to be supportive of car owners while in fact was fully behind and actually instrumental in helping to pass a bill that many of the western states are looking at as a model of how to set their own laws regarding classic car emissions testing.
The old are getting old, and the young arent getting interested in the old cars, for the most part. The days of the car club in general will be numbered unless they see that being exclusionary isnt helping anyone.
Regards,
Derek
Whenever you decide to start messing with welding, let me know. It will be hard to cut your fender off if you are careful with your reciprocating saw, or if you have to sell your plasma cutter to pay on your stupid...err...student loans, like I did. LOL.
Regards,
Derek
Regarding:
" I may be around now and again to add 2 cents to the kitty but I really feel as though for the most part its not worth the hassle anymore, what with the hecklers, etc. that have come to roost here of late."
Derek, you are wayyyyyyyy too young to throw in the towel because of the discention on the board. Take it from one that knows, dealing with the hecklers only will sharpen your already abundant talent for the "comeback", hey even Pete Rose took batting practice LOL.
Regarding:
"Theres a lot of sniping taking place lately, sort of indicative of a general loss of courtesy all around. I always viewed the CLC members as the most approachable and down-to-earth car guys, and for the most part, they still are."
Call me the eternal optimists, but I think most of the sniping is nothing more then good old fashion camaraderie. Take the bunch here put them in a "Cheers" bar with plenty of wings and beer, and I bet we have the time of our life. Can I be Sammy??
01-08-05
Robert, tackle this one. (no pun intended)
...the first one won one one dollar prize...
Good Luck, Jim
Theres a simple reason that 41s are the most popular cars in the CLC: more of that year are owned by CLC members than any other. The good old boys may be the reason for this, but not from a plot to make 41s popular, only from their preference for this year. If every member bought a 68 today, it would instantly become the most popular Cadillac in the club, by far, and there would be nothing the gobs could do to change that fact.
Quote from: Derek"It seems there is still a strong contingent of "good old boys" who run the whole show..."
With the exception of the past presidents, every member of the Board of Directors, including those on the Executive Committee, are elected by the membership. In recent CLC elections, the participation rate has been horrendous -- around 1 or 2percent of the membership. You also have to have people who are willing to serve two years on the Board and travel to meetings twice a year at their own expense. There arent that many volunteers.
Quote from: Derek"There is still a strong resistance to modification or even discussion of newer Cadillacs -- witness Stampies troubles getting the Modified Chapter started and approved."
This is because the concept of a modified car goes against what has been defined in the CLCs constitution. The modified car is being debated and if brought to a vote by the membership, will be a difficult sell in my opinion because of the age of the membership and the definition of what a Cadillac or LaSalle is to them.
You cant change the world overnight, Im afraid; it is a very gradual process.
Consider coming to the AACA Museum in Hershey for our winter board meeting next Saturday morning to watch the process in action.
Jeff
A while back there was some talk on the HT4100 Exchange board about registration of members over some spammers that always seem to show up on these things. There were the vocal few that insisted that registration was indeed good and quite necessary. I had my doubts, but went ahead with a poll to get the general memberships response on the issue.
Derek, you may remember this. In the poll I stated that at least 75percent of the membership must respond and that there must be a clear majority for registration to occur. This would have the effect of weeding out the vocal minority in favour of the general majority. The result was of those that voted, the majority was against registration, but less than 25percent of the membership actually voted. It quickly became a non issue and has not been brought up since.
I essence, what I am saying is that most of the people really do not care for it. The vocal minority do not always have the best interest of all in mind, but for their own ideals. So lets leave it the way it is. Jeff and Michael are doing a great job here in keeping this board as good as it is. If it aint broke, dont fix it!
And, as Brian pointed out, the HT4100 Exchange is quite differant in that it is more or less a purely technical board with very little if any bantering that is becoming more popular here. I do allow strays, but will not withstand any disparity, insults or personal attacks. They get dealt with promptly, but thankfully there has been very little that has resulted in me having to step in and deal with. This in an open forum where anybody can join freely.
I do not object to most all of what is said here. In fact, many of us have become personal friends and we feel this has become a family of sorts. This thread is a function of that. We would not get animated in such a discussion if we really did not feel this way. E-bay posts aside, this is one of the best boards out there, and the reason why I stay here when so many others have come and gone. I frequent this board more than any other, and is alway the first, and sometimes only, board I come to during my time at the computor.
Dereks announcement that he was taking a sabbatical, and the ensuing responses, is a tribute to how close we have all become. Lets strive to keep it that way.
Mike
I couldnt have said it better myself.
Regards,
Derek
Perhaps as a bit of a qualifier. When this club was formed, these 40s era Cadillacs were but old cars to the general public and the foresight of the founding members to preserve them is what was the fondation of the club.
Really, since then, have things really changed? The cars that were originally of that foundation era have become valued collectibles, and thankfully , because of the efforts of this club and other like minded individuals, they remain for us all to enjoy. A tangible lesson in the illustrious Cadillac history.
Today, 80s Cadillacs are of the approximate age of the cars that were the foundation of the club. The 70s cars were the equivilant of 20s era cars then. But, the advancements in technology have meant that far more of these cars remain on the road than their equivilantly aged 30s brethren in the lat 50s. Now, the executives have obviously been long standing members, and no doubt are well exposed to 40s and 50s (they were new cars when the club was new) era cars and are generally regarded as top notch collectibles today. To them 80s and to some extent, 70s Cadillacs are still late model cars and may not get the attention they deserve. But slowly, I am beginning to see more and more acceptance by the general membership, and greater numbers of them in the club.
This club is a living and breathing entity, and it can and will change with the times. It will simply not survive if it does not. Trends evident in the hobby will have to be embraced, even if some object. The purists will object to modified cars. The guys just looking for a nice reliable and practical driver will object to the abject originality measures of others. Some love the latest models, others hate them. But we have to sit down and take stock of our hobby from time to time. If it is to survive, change is necessary. There will always be room for everyone, even if they congregate in their own factions in the form of specific chapters.
How many early 80s Cadillacs are there out there powered by HT4100s today as compared to even 5 years ago? This is a prime example of where and why this club benefits Cadillac afficiandos of all eras. These otherwise beautiful cars need some support now, and so it will be for the FWD era Northstar cars in the years to come. The last of the RWD Fleetwoods already have a strong following. The newest being already 9 years old!
Mike
I have it up now here:
http://www.stampie.com/tech/scissortop.htmlIf Lynn or any others wish to have something there just email me.
Thanks,
Stampie
Excellent! A bookmark must have for all, weather or not you have one of these cars.
Now, how about Lynns 68 Cadillac article? Id love to read that too.
I have written some articles as well, not all Cadillac related, but would like to mak them available to anyone interested as well.
Mike
I have an article on common climate control problems in 68 Cadillacs that is virtually done. I also have a series of 6 articles on maximizing the performance of a 68 Cadillac, tuning beyond the shop manual specs, but they would be generally applicable to other years also. They covered the distributor, carburetor, camshaft, breathing efficiency, transmission, and the chassis. These were not quite 100percent done when I realized that I wasnt going to get anywhere with them. I put them aside and havent looked at them in months. If yall want to see them posted, Ill have to finish them up. Mine also have a number of pictures with them. I dont know how much room Stampie has for all this. I will have to inquire.
Lynn (who still wishes Derek would stay around)
I have plenty of room as I think Im only using 2percent of my space and 5percent of my bandwidth as of now. My publishing timeframe is around 24 hours so let me know when you get them ready.
Stampie
I got your email Mike and Ill put it up. Dont see any reason why not to put up anything else you have so send those on.
Stampie
If I am replying to the INCORRECT AREA of THIS BOARD - I apologize. I too, am dis-satisfied,disappointed,and disillusioned by the CLC, and this MOST COMPLEX board. When I purchased my
www.LandYacht.net, several yrs. ago, I jumped to membership and this board for help.FORGET THAT !I instead I encountered a generally speaking, group of self rightous,imperious,snobs reveling in their own IMpotence.
I stay as a member, because of the SELF STARTER, and the SELF STARTER ONLY !
The CLC is looking to attract new young members. Thats great, but they might try first to be more cordial to the present members.I do state that I have encountered a FEW friendly and helpful folk. These are individuals.They are not the CLC.I try to assist those with questions who know even less than I do. I see these "newbies" attacked, instead of assisted. I suggest a real change in attitude by the "Old Hard Cores". Welcome to 2005.If the CLC is not New Member,Un-knowledgable participant friendly,the CLC will not continue, no matter how good the Self Starter is. PLEASE- Make this a more friendly atmosphered club, and NOT the domain of the self rightous oldies. Thank You - Bill
"I instead I encountered a generally speaking, group of self rightous,imperious,snobs reveling in their own IMpotence."
Personally, I take exceptance to this particular remark. I have very rarely been subjected to such behaviour here, and for the most part, and there are indeed the odd exception, the people on this board have been very co-operative and tried to help in any manner in which they can.
If you find the behaviour here like this, I suggest you join another forum for other marques. There are other boards out there that give new meaning to "self rightous,imperious,snobs reveling in their own IMpotence" Simply put, this is not one of them.
With such a statement you lay a broad insult to everyone here. Qualifying it with statements like "I do state that I have encountered a FEW friendly and helpful folk. These are individuals.They are not the CLC" do not diminish your assault.
And, since you find it so complex here, perhaps you are on the wrong board that you think you are. Complexity? Really? This is perhaps the most easily attainable and most esily understood board I have encountered.
I would suggest that a thought process be involved before making such a post, and perhaps a bit more indication of why you make such claims.
If you find me to be one of these imperious snobs, so be it.
Mike
Bill,
Mike is right on this, you paint with a pretty broad brush here. Can you give some more clear-cut examples of exactly how you were insulted on the board? I dont recall your name being associated with any big flame-ups on here...
Just trying to understand,
Derek
That didnt work but if you do a search for Bolen as a Partial username you will find the other post.
Stampie
01-08-04
Bill, I have to Disagree with you 100percent.
I feel that the members that respond to questions and comments on this board have done so in a, mostly nice way.
I, one among many, will not answer a post, But will reply to it just to move it back to the top.
The CLC, like so many other clubs, dont tell you everthing before you join.
Bill, if you truely want to feel left-out, join the elks".
I, for one member, am staying with the club.
As for the board. BEST thing I ever came across that was FREE!
Good Luck, Jim
P.S. I dont expect too many answers about a "thirtys-car"
therfore, Im not disappointed to often.
I found the other post from Bill, and it too was rather insulting, and in my opinion unprovoked.
Mike.
I have always found message board "fightning",and some people getting offended, really quite amusing. Think about it. All this fightning is done using the marvels of the computer chip, which allows us to exchange dialogues with each other electronically! I cant believe such high emotion can be reached, by simply reading words, electronically reproduced on a TV screen! For the most part, they are words from "faceless people" completely void of any emotion. The only exception is if posters have met and more or less met each other, then we can place a face and emotion on a post.
Personally I read the posts and saw nothing remotely insulting to Mr Bolen.
I suspect that he is one of those people who hit at the wrong moment, and take what was intended as humor wrongly. Whatever the complaint, it is unwarrented in my humble opinion, as was the knee jerk reaction.
The very fact that we have worried on this bone is indicative of the general memberships sensitivity towards others.
I apologize to Mr, Bolen if he took anything I said wrongly.
But believe me, if I want to be rude, you will know it. Hope that clears it up as far as I am concerned.
Aw H**l, I might just as well stomp in it too! Are there plans for a boxing ring or mud pit in the CLC tent at the next grand national?
Well Cadillac LaSalle Club..Members and people who care...Its Only the Tenth Day.............Check this out....
http://web.icq.com/friendship/swf/0,,16961_rs,00.swfNow can we get back to the romance of Fine Ole Cadillacs. You guys know 64 Eldorados are the best...Oh, yes you do...Oh, yes you do... Oh, yes you do, 64 Eldos rule, no question bout it, peter