"John Elway forward pass travels toward its receiver at over 70 miles per hour; Randy Johnsons fastball darts from his hand at over 90 miles per hour; Pete Samprass serve booms across the net at 120 miles per hour. Unless you know how to play the game, youre advised to stay safely away. But should you find yourself in even a minor fenderbender, you may be on the receiving end of an air bag deploying at up to 200 miles per hour. "
http://www.libertyhaven.com/theoreticalorphilosophicalissues/ethics/suddenimpact.shtml
You forgot the best quote from that article.
..."Any fatality is cause for regret of course, but realism compels us to acknowledge that few valuable interventions come altogether without cost. People die on operating tables during routine surgery, drown while enjoying an invigorating swim, get hit by lightning while out on a golf course. We can and should try to minimize the occurrence of such tragic outcomes, but as Milton Friedman famously observes, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Air bags save on the order of 30 lives for each one lost. It would seem on first blush that this lopsided ratio is an eloquent testimonial to the regulatory regime that mandated them in all new vehicles. Few public safety measures, we might say, can claim so enviable a record of success. "
Dave,
Cool, lets get the gubmint to ban the car TVs and the cell phones, navigation systems and all the other nonsense too. Let all that junk work only when you arent driving the car.
I understand thet are working on breathalyzer starting systems, now we have tire air pressure monitors and who know what else they will come up with. It all adds to the cost, makes owning an old car cheap. Dont forget the new black boxes so the insurance companies can determine what happened.
Myself I check my tire air pressure constantly, the average idiot in America drives their car till it breaks, no joke. They dont rotate the tires either, or change the fluids for that matter.
On a recent trip on an interstate a car behind a fire truck just pulled right out in front of me, fortunately the center lane was clear, no rime or reason, then they pulled in front of the truck.
Drive safe and defensively, I havent had an accident since 84 (not my fault), the intersections are the worst, basically just too many people living too close to each other in a hurry to get nowhere.
Porter (from 40 year NJ fame, Maine is much better since 96)
Porter,
You hit it right on the head! It is pretty sad that the car manufacturers are putting tire pressure monitors on for one reason only. To avoid future lawsuits like the ones from the Firestone Explorer blow outs. Cant you just see the Ford Lawyers now? "Gee mam, you ignored the low pressure warning, so we wont pay up in court".
I liked Firestones solution better. Just take down your signs and put up larger Bridgestone signs! What a crazy world we live in!
David :)
There is a federal law prohibiting any TV in a motor vehicle to be viewable by the driver while the car is in motion (this does not include rear view monitors)
all of the new in dash radios that are also TVs have a wire that is supposed to be hooked up (not sure where) so that the TV function is disabled while the car is moving
Most states prohibit any type of Screen in front that is visable to the driver. This includeds navigation systems. That wire that is supposed to get hooked up so they dont work while the car/truck is in gear is easily unhooked. PLUS, like many laws, they are often not enforced. Unless you *****off the Officer who stops you for a different reason. Then youll see how quick he finds things to write you up for.
The bigger question: If screens up front are illegal, then what about factory installed Navigation Radios?
David
Precisely my train of thought. This government induced nannyism that protect us from ourselves, and the generally greedy and litigous public and legal system have allowed any sense of self respect and self preservation to decay into allowing and depending on the authorities to keep us from doing harm to ourselves, and expecting a financial award from those that have somehow circumvented the government mandated web of well being.
We have been denied the privelige of making decisions that affect us in many instances, but hypocritally, are allowed to persevere in behaviour than will harm us and may harm others around us. This to the economic benefit if certain industries and avoiding a political hot potato that all governments avoid at all costs.
The old addage the we are allowed to vote and go to war, but are not allowed to consume alcohol is one. We can light up a cigarrette knowing that it will kill us eventually, but also put anyone in the vicinity in harms way. We are not allowed to smoke pot because it is the essence of evil and the gateway to heavy drug usage. But we can consume alcohol unimpeded.
We must have airbags in our cars knowing that it may mame or kill us because we are of a group of high risk. We are not allowed to disarm them because of the potential of a lawsuit. But, vehicles with only a front row seat have a switch that will disarm the right side air bag, but not the left side.
We must pay for this benefit as well, with increased vehicle costs, weight and complexity. And the insurance companies that were instrumental in mandating them charge us all a premium to have a car so-equipped. All of us pay, weather we have an air bag equipped car or not. Because we will be involved in a collision with one of these cars, and we must all share the cost.
Pity what this world has come to.
Mike
Mike, I love your phrase of Governmental induced nannyism. That is priceless!
And of course I concur. I understand that people want to be safe, and that they must protect their passengers. Accidents are inevitable, not due to the car in question necessarily, but because the one element or variable that is so hard to predict: the human element.
Add alcohol or a mental diversion and you have a problem waiting to happen.
Personally, I loathe and abhorr airbags, and all those silly features they load cars with today in the name of safety so the idiot behind the wheel can drive just as he or she pleases without thought.
And I should point out, that vehicles with night vision or projected images on the windshield are a major potential for confusion. Basically you should go out knowing there is someone out there who will make a mistake and drive accordingly.
The pros to the air bags are that they do save more lives than they dont.
The cons are that they are expensive, delitarious to the driver and passengers should they go off unexpectedly or not when they should, and they perpetuate the lie that you are safe.
You are not safe, anywhere. It is an illusion, and perhaps a natural one, but an illusion non the less. You can die from slipping on a wet rice kernel in the kitchen and break your neck. You can die of a mosquito bite, a bee sting, a bad bit of pork. A bus can clip you with its side mirror as you wait to cross the street. Or a meteorite can fall from the sky and hit you in the head. You can die of an embalism, or of Cancer without knowing you had it. You can fall on the sidewalk, be hit by a bicycle or any number of misadventures without rhyme or reason. Then there are the human elements...crime, bigotry, prejudice and greed. Hell it goes on and on. And finally, you are just plain going to die. Period. It is inevitable the moment you are born. Get over it.
We are the most death aversive society in the world. It starts from there and trickles down from there. After that everything is rosey!!! :)
Years ago they had a buzzer when you started the car, people would just buckle them and sit on top of them, my 90 Van has the buzzer but I always use them anyway. It shuts off in a few seconds.
Granted you could have a system where the car wouldnt start if an occupant wasnt buckled, what would stop them from unbuckling after the car was started ?
The point is your insurance is to protect you from the unsafe driver idiots, we all pay for uninsured motorists.
This is a much GREATER problem nowadays with the millions of illegal immigrants in the US, driving with no license or insurance.
Driver beware, and air bags may well not save your butt, but we all pay for the air bags in the new cars, it jacks up the insurance cost for all of us at collision time, the insurance companies will always make money, no matter what you have to pay for insurance, mandated by law. Not that it will stop anyone from driving, whether a legal American or not.
Porter
Porter,
Ah! but they did have a government mandated Starter-interlock system in 1974 and early 1975 models. All cars required the front seat occupants to be belted otherwise the car would not start. If you tried to start the car, the belt buzzer would sound to remind you that you didnt buckle up. If you did buckle up, start the car and then unbuckle, the car would stay running, but the buzzer would screech away until you rebuckled.
Most people just buckled them and then sat on the belts. Clever people discovered that if you unplugged the seat pad sensor it would disable the system. By mid 75 the feature was dropped from production.
An interesting side note was that if you ordered the Cadillac ACRS (Air Cushion Restraint System = Airbags) then you didnt get the starter-interlock feature. They also deleted the shoulder belts on the ACRS equipped cars! Cadillac actually claimed that ACRS was great because there were no shoulder belts to wrinkle your clothes! Honest! I have the Brochure that says that.
For a while I actually plugged in my Starter interlock to make it work. I thought it would be a good anti theft feature. But it was a pain in the arse when I wanted to hop in the car quick and move it in the driveway, especially to move a few inches when scrubbing the whitewalls.
David
Yeah I knew they had those. I do not understand the big to do over seat belts but I remember the complaints. They are uncomfortable, they wrinkle your good clothes, they pinch in just the right place, and (until recently) short people got it in the kisser. Oh and they are ugly. Well I dont know about that but I have had some that rode up my chest and pinched a bit. Still I wear them.
I will put them in my 56 if it ever gets done. But airbags? No thank you.
Been punched by one and had a rib separated (and I aint small). And you can keep all those stupid sensors and crap.
I do like the autronic eye (mine works just fine), twilight sentinal and power antenna...those a fun perks.
Crumple zones are a good thing, but my 56 had few (though it did have some I think). As for wearing belts ... well if you dont buckle up, we wont leave the driveway. :)
Now if only I could buy a big brand new Sedan DeVille without computers and all that crud....ah well. I am forced to own pre-80s cars and am happy with that.
Initially, air bags were designed to protect those who didnt buckle up, which was the vast majority of people in the early 70s, given the lousy separate belt systems. I am not sure, but air bag inflation rates were based on someone unbelted hitting the bag. Thats why, up until a few years ago, there were so many people killed who were of small stature in the passenger seat, or driver seat when seated too close to the wheel. Thats been moderated with "smart airbags" that base inflation pressures on weight in the seat and maybe whether the seat belt is clicked(I think thats how they work??), and adjustable pedals that allow people to adjust their seat to the proper distance.
Im huge believer in the effectiveness of the three point belt and safety cage. But compared to cars of just of 10 years ago, serious accidents are much less likely to result in death or serious disability when belted. Unfortunately, that all costs money, but presumably it is also resulting in lower insurance payouts, which should lead to lower premiums, in a perfect world (Even I dont believe that)
Initially, I thought side air bags were too much, and envisioned everyone driving around in instant exploding marshmallow bags. Then I realized that the side impact is among the most deadly collision and the roof rail bangs your head. I know, it happened to me in 1993, but I forgot about the impact because I was knocked out!! Very convenient.
It does *****me off that these new cars are totalled just because air bags deploy. Got no answer for that one
Randy,
The only crumple zones in the 56 are the steering wheel, windscreen and the dash board as the occupants fall forward and distort the items on their chest, legs and heads.
Seat Belts are good.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
"It does *****me off that these new cars are totaled just because air bags deploy. Got no answer for that one"
Ill give it a shot.Deprecation. We all know that when you buy a new car ,the second you walk out of the dealership the value of your new car has just dropped $5000.00 or more. Generally speaking any accident in which the air bag is deployed will cause a fair amount of damage. Hypothetically lets say the car cost $20k new minus the $5k you loose out the door and the car is 1 year old with 15k miles on it.That $20k car(new) is now worth $12k at best when you figure for depreciation.Most insurance companys will pay out up to 70percent of the value of the car.That new car is now worth 8-9K!! When you factor in the repair cost VS the vehicle value ,it gets close to the "total" mark really quick.Do air bags push alot of cars over the total mark? Absolutely. BUT as far as the ins co is concerned totaling out a vehicle is a drop in the bucket compared to what the medical expenses would be if that same accident happened without airbags.Whiplash alone would cost more than $12K. LOL
How do air bags prevent whiplash ?
That thought hit me yesterday, I thought headrests were designed to prevent whiplash.
If the only thing stopping your forward progress in an accident is a seatbelt,then you will/could get whiplash. The seatbelt stops your torso not your neck or head.The airbag will stop the forward motion of your head to about the same speed as the rest of your restrained body.
I agree and I disagree :
(1) Accidents are inevitable (I disagree)
(2) Basically you should go out knowing there is someone out there who will make a mistake and drive accordingly (I agree).
In summary, if you "drive accordingly", you have a 99.9percent chance of disproving the first theory that "(road) Accidents are inevitable".
Now Im not saying that youre "immune" to a fatal wet rice kernels, mosquito bite, bee sting, bad pork (unless youre Jewish), bus side mirror, meteorite, embolism, cancer, fall on the sidewalk or violent criminal behavior.
So TRY to stay safe at all times and lets all wish ouselves a peaceful, painless passing in bed !
Porter,
In S. Carolina I have to pay an additional premium for "uninsured motorists" AND another for "underinsured" motorists. The premiums actually appear on the policy.
In Switzerland (and I guess in most "civilized" countries) you cant get license tags for a vehicle (including pedal cycles)without a verifiable address as well as genuine PROOF of insurance.
If, subsequently, you CANCEL your coverage or cease to pay for your premiums, your insurance company has a legal duty to immediately notify the police. In such a case, you might be lucky to be able drive a few more DAYS before your car is impounded and you are arrested.
Of course, Im talking of a country of some 6 million inhabitants, with FEW (if any) illegal immigrants. When you live in a country of more than a quarter BILLION people, where borders seemingly are "porous", where anyone and his aunt can "disappear" with relative ease and where the "incivil" have civil liberties like you and me, WHAT can the law do ?
Our governing authorities have found a simple, effective solution: make the ngood guys pay for the bad guys !
Accidents are only inevitable if you accept that 99.9percent of the drivers out on the roads are incompetant and dangerous. From what I have witnessed...I am ready to make that an assertion. Guess I am losing faith in humanity. :/
Yes, they were. In the original spec that was sent to the manufacturers from the overly zealous Joan Claybrook of the NHTSA in the early 70s, they were to prevent an average sized unbelted passenger from serious injury in speeds up to 50 MPH.
The lap belts had to be retained because of the real potential of the occupant submarining during a collision. Remember those knee bars on those cars with the passive belts? They would have been necessary otherwise.
Mike
If everyone was consious and alert in their task, yes, most collisions could and would be prevented. In most peoples case, you will be involved in at least one collision in your life. It may be minor to a severe life ending collision. You may beat the odds too, by living in a sparsely populated area and driving with the utmost care and alertness in the most favourable conditions.
I was rear ended by a mentally absent girl in a Jeep a few years back. I was a sitting duck. I was doing all the right things, but still got nailed. Nothing I could do. This sort of situation is unavoidable, no matter how you drive. The only thing I could have prevented was not being there at that time. But my crystal ball is still in the shop, along with my magic wand and x-ray glasses.
So, you have to accept the fact that there is a good chance that you will be involved in a collision at anytime anywhere. No matter what you do and how you drive. But you can be consious and aware of what is going on around you and many will be prevented and avoided.
Mike
Without a doubt, more reliable too for the most part but when it comes to repairs, $$$ ouch.
The vast majority of "accidents" are caused by bad drivers.
We would all still be better served by a car that has no frills and is engineered to be repaired easily, not one designed by the stylists.
The Corvette is the complete package, but look at the cost.
GM has yet to come out with something revolutionary for the masses that is better than the competition.
Porters rambling 2 cents for the day
Would one not want a fighter pilot of an F18 Hornet to have an ejection seat. The most violent of flight actions at the most dangerous times in the worst of conditions requires a violent act to survive. Yes the pilot has to pull and yes the airbag knows not of the intent or severity of the inpending damage, but it must act quickly. Perhaps in the future there will be other ways. However at this time, they are a work in progress. Thier value has spoken for itself, dispite their failings . Just an opinion. Art
During this discussion of safety devices on modern autos I dont believe anyone has mentioned ABS brakes. I have two occasions where abs brakes I believe have prevented me from being involved in an accident. Both times a vehicle pulled out from a side road in front of me while I was traveling about 65 and no place to go except to panic stop if possible. One time was with my car with ABS brakes all around and one time was with my S10 pickup with abs on the rear wheels only. I guess we all know about pickups without any load in the rear switching ends in panic stops. In this case the stop was straight and true. Jim
[The vast majority of "accidents" are caused by bad drivers.]
I would say ALL accidents are caused by bad drivers!
[We would all still be better served by a car that has no frills and is engineered to be repaired easily, not one designed by the stylists. ]
What frills would you do away with? Automatic Transmission? Radios? Heaters? Air Conditioning? Dont do away with too many or we will all be riding around in model Ts.
That would be like a 60s Chevy Biscayne with no power anything.
A durable inline 6 engine with manual or auto trans, just basic durable transportation that can be repaired easily, mechanically or autobody.
With the modern day collapsible steering column and crumple zones and padded dash, skip the air bags too. You could have ABS disc brakes at all fours, simplistic 5 mph energy absorbing bumpers, etc. No silly electronic suspensions, onstar, tire air pressure sensors, etc.
Seems like a reasonable concept to me, should sell well too.
Honestly , these new cars are way too complicated and you cant keep them past the extended warranty, ask anyone that has owned late model cars north of 100K mileage.
If new cars are designed like computers: obsolete after three years and destined to be thrown away for a new purchase then so be it. I am not enamored with the new cars from any of the manufacturers. The basic concept would be similar to the Volkswagon Bettle, not that that car didnt leave a lot to be desired. GM needs to lead, not follow Toyota and Honda, or BMW & Mercedes.
Porter:just my take here at the moment, all comments welcome, I dont consider my opinion the last word on any subject, we all enjoy hearing everyones views.
At the very least we are having an important discussion about safe driving.
Gday Art,
Here in Australia, the Air Bags wont deploy unless the severity of the accident is transmitted to the three sensors that are strategically placed within the structure of the vehicle. One at the front, one under the front seat, and the other one within the structure.
What it does is senses that the amount of crumpling of the crumple-zones and if the distortion is sufficient, and all sensors are reading the smilar movements, then the Air Bags are deployed.
The system also recognises when a vehicle is crashing at any position, and if it is a "off-frontal", sideways prang, or a rear-ender, then the bags arent deployed as they would be useless.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
I rode in a new Malibu MAX today (a sin to call it that but there it is) and it was nice enough. It had plenty of power up to 60 then got a little weak in the knees; the interior was a blah grey with chrome-like-plastic-substance, and smelled like a new Pampers. It was well equiped and thoroughly uncomfortable for my frame.
I do not believe people cannot operate a car safely with a tv or radio, or even a navigation system (as long as they do not have to program it as they drive, which of course they do), but ... and here is the kicker ... given the natural inclination for people to take the easy road, most drivers forget what driving is about and do things like contemplate their day ahead, chat on the phone, or put on makeup in the rear view mirror. Quite honestly, if something were to happen that is out of the ordinary, like a child running between two parked cars, their speed, and lack of attention would spell tragedy. Chances are were they really driving defensively, they could avoid it. Pat, my sons mother, was rearended in Boulder by a California woman on a business trip. She was looking at the light, and was momentarily confused by the signs so she did not see that Pat was stopped at the right turn waiting on traffic. BANG! Her comment? "I guess I wasnt paying attention...I didnt see you." And so it goes.
Those sensors would be called "Discriminating Sensors" (leaving myself open for a classic Tassie rebout). Basically what they ar are gold plated balls held in place by a magnet. When the G-forces in any appropriate direction are severe enough, then the ball is dislodged from the magnet, completing a circuit to the DERM which in turn sends voltage to the "explosive device" which deploys the bag. Its just that sometimes those magnets were not strong enough, or the balls too big in minor collisions and the bags go off. Write off the car and injur, mame or kill the occupant in the process. I have read that the accelerative force of these bags actually approaches 350 mph!
But with the Gen II bags, they do not deploy as easily, and without the force of the Gen I bags. Now they have smart bags that can vary the force depending on the weight of the occupant. They are much safer in minor collisions in that they are not likely to deploy at all, and when they do, with lesser force. More like the 150 mph quoted in the article.
Mike
computers in cars are here to stay, they cannot pass the emissions standards without electronic fuel injection and all of its sensors, plus they run better for longer and get better milage to boot
the ONLY way to beat the airbag/ single shoulder belt combination for saftey would be full nascar like harnesses that have to be tailered to each driver and the seat they are in plays a very important part in the formula since it, not the belts, keeps the driver from moving sideways in a crash along with the bars that extend around the sides of the drivers head to keep it from flopping sideways in a crash
I had an accident (my fault) and hit the side of another car in an intersection going maybe 1 mph, I put a crease down the the side of the ladies car (98 mazda 929) that was in both doors and the rear quarter panel, all cosmetic damage, the repair bill was 4700 dollars (just checked with the insurance co, I expected it to be more). The cost of labor and the added cost of EPA compliance plus the artificial devaluation of cars in the US market causes alot of minor fender benders to become totals even without the cost of replacing the air bags which has come down considerably since all cars now have them, I can buy a replacement steering wheel with and airbag for my brand new Passat for about $450 and that was for a leather covered replacement for my stock non-leather wheel
the only thing I hate about alot of newer engines is the use of rubber timing belts instead of chains which seems to be on a downturn these days and if you have a diesel VW like me, the timing belt breaking will pretty much total the engine so you replace it at the recomended interval and hope for the best
My 90 throttle body SBC nas been bullet proof since new, I didnt say I advocate a return to the inferior carburetor. They did have to tow it back to the dealer the first day to replace the computer.
Timning belts are not a good idea IMHO.
What is the story with these tire blowouts, anyway? When I was in my teens and tweens, I couldnt afford a new set of tires, so Ive been through many blowouts at various speeds. They make a racket, so you pull over and stop, either put on the spare or ride down the rim to the next tire shop, depending on whether or not you have a spare. So why is it that people keep losing control and crashing when their tires blow out?
-denise
Because people today are not expecting anything to go wrong. So when it does, they become over-excited, over react and lose control. Blame it on the way they werent taught to drive...blame it on the cars, whatever, it is still the drivers fault. If you lose control of the automobile, it is your fault. It does not matter if a tire blew or an alien just landed on the hood...the driver is ALWAYS expected to be in control. No excuses.
Personally I think all this safety stuff robs the individual of the need to be attentive, not that they are in any case which is the whole problem. You should always check your tire pressure because it matters when the climate changes. But with the way life is going, many people are so stressed out even minor things like tire pressure are just that added crap to make life really unbearable.
Life is getting altogether too involved and stupid.
Keep safe, Densie. :)
More people would check their own tyres if only the tyre inflators were near the fuel pumps, and not way over the other side of the fuel stop. It is hard enough to have to stop the car at the bowsers, let alone having to drive over to the air and water area. Time is precious to the masses.
Some of us are lucky enough to have compressors in our own garages and can do that sort of stuff before venturing out into the open.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
That would be nice, but here we have to pay .50 to .75 per use. I rarely have change so I really could use a compressor in my garage.
Good God! What happened to Free Air and Free Water??????????? What is the world coming to????????
Still free over here, and still at 99percent of the bowser islands, and windscreen washing squeegees as well.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Hey Bruce,
Savor that you are still in Gods Country!
Shhhhhh....theyll start charging us for sqeegees and towels soon enough!
NO!!! IM NOT STRESSED!!!
MY LIFE IS NOT INVOLVED!!! ITS NOT STUPID!!!
Well, OK, maybe a little bit.
I think youre probably right. Every year when bridges freeze, people panic, slam on the brakes and skid around until they find something to slam into. A little road hazard training wouldnt hurt anyone.
-densie
Im old enough to remember when the gas stations sold service instead of beer and lottery tickets. When you stopped for gas, you could at least be reasonably sure that the routine maintenance items were checked. Unfortunately, the folks who bought $2 worth of gas, or none at all, and wanted everything checked before they went to the convenience store for gas were instumental in shutting most service stations down.
We have an air compressor and I love it, except that Im always afraid that the noisy tools will bother the neighbors...even though they come over and inflate their tires sometimes. You know how neighbors can be.
-denise
> Precisely my train of thought. This government induced nannyism that protect us from ourselves, and the generally greedy and litigous public and legal system have allowed any sense of self respect and self preservation to decay into allowing and depending on the authorities to keep us from doing harm to ourselves, and expecting a financial award from those that have somehow circumvented the government mandated web of well being.
Its getting worse. Theyve already gone after the cigarettes and the cars, now theyre trying to control the food. "For your own good" Twenty or thirty years ago, no one but George Orwell would have believed that this could happen. Now what is going to happen in the next 20-30 years that we could not possibly foresee happening right now? Its scary.
The governments argument is that the government and private insurance companies (which will soon be the government) have to pay more for your health care. At what point do we become government property? Slaves?
-denise
Here in the US, they go off at 10 mph. If it were 50, or even 30, I wouldnt have as much of a problem with them. However, there is still my CD player analogy. If they cant make a CD player that lasts 20k miles, what makes you think that an air bag will work the way it was designed to?
-denise
If everyone would walk around their cars at least once a week, look at the tires and lights and just the general condition of their car, many situations could be avoided. Tire pressure monitors only tell you when a tire is down. It does no more than a walk around. If you are underway, and suffer a blowout, no monitor could have prevented it unless it has been ignored for some time. If you happen to look at the condition of the tires, you could likely prevent most of these blowouts.
Most all blowouts are caused by one of two things, a worn or damaged tire, or low air pressure. These are the sort of things that can be prevented easily.
Cars with lights out are a pet peeve of mine. Its OK if one light is out, they can go at any time, but to see cars on the road with multiple lights out is a sign that the car has been neglected. This shows that the driver has generally neglected the most basic of car maintenance, the walkaround. Yesterday I saw a Toyota with FIVE brake lights out! That is more dngerous than a tire that is low on air, in my opinion. And these cars with lamp monitors do little to prevent it. Quite often I see Cadillacs with many lights out. They do not all go out at once. They are simply ignored over time.
Drivers today just get into their car, start it (or "turn it on" as many say now), stuff a cell phone in their ear and off they go. Never look at anything. Rarely even wash them. These drivers can be charged with driving an unsafe vehicle, a pretty stout fine that includes a coart date, but never do. Many times I see these cars piloted by visible minorities. The cops will completely leave them alone fearing discrimination charges and the ensuing reams of paperwork. Meanwhile they go blissfully on.
Mike
Densie,
But, people can FIDDLE with CD players. That is the reason why they stuff up.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
ALL. concerning all of the "safety" items on cars today, when its all said and done, A safe and sane driver will out-preform any safety-devise installed on any car.
Brake lights come-on automaticly when the brakes are applied. (assuming the bulbs, switch and wiring are ok.)
But, the turn signials have to be turned on by the driver. (a lot of drivers dont use them at any time, ever )
Good Luck, Jim
Hi Porter,
This from a country that has:
1.
> This is a much GREATER problem nowadays with the millions of illegal immigrants in the US, driving with no license or insurance.
Considering that an alarming percentage of them are now "Other Than Mexican" you should be more concerned about those trucks full of explosives.
-denise
We put a CD in, it plays, push the eject button and its supposed to come back out. Instead, it makes grinding and puking noises. Less than 20k or so miles on the car, and I recall a Ford tech in this forum telling me that he frequently replaced these radios under warranty, so it wasnt a matter of fiddling with it. They built junk, and it broke.
At least, unlike the air bags, we can see that it is broken. There isnt any way to test under what conditions the air bag will inflate. And please dont tell me that it "self-tests" when you turn the key on...I have a strong background in troubleshooting systems that "self-test".
Think about it...should you really trust a company that cant make a working CD player to arm an explosive device and place it between your arms? Thats like driving down the street holding a stick of dynamite.
-denise
> BUT as far as the ins co is concerned totaling out a vehicle is a drop in the bucket compared to what the medical expenses would be if that same accident happened without airbags.Whiplash alone would cost more than $12K.
Air bags dont prevent whiplash.
-d
Ah! But Ford doesnt build a crappy CD player. The people who make the parts that go into the radios do. Just like Walmart, they arent getting these things made in the good old USA anymore. Yes, the CD players crap out. But that is because every year the BIG-3 manufacturers tell their suppliers to reduce the prices of the parts they make that are put into the cars. So to meet these lower prices and keep up with rising costs of making them, ie: payroll, health benefits, etc etc. the materials going into the cars are crappier and crappier. All just to keep getting the bid on being a supplier. All so the car companies can make more money to justify the rebates and family plans.
Back to the CD players. Visteon lost the bid to produce the radios for Ford. Delphi won the bid. And yes, the Delphi made radios are much worse! So the whole industry is screwed up. Gm builds radios for Fords, Ford makes DVD units for Chrysler, etc etc. Everything is built to last for 3 years at best. They want you to PAY to fix all this when the basic warranty expires. Or get so frustrated with repairs that you trade it in . Even my 75 Caddy is too complex. The Climate controls systems are a pain, the guidematic system works backwards, the autolevelers dont anymore and the plastic fender fillers turn to dust when exposed to sun or air. Sometimes I think we would all be better off just driving a 1965 Bel Air. Simple technology built to last decades.
David
David,
You are right-on with all of that.
When the manufacturers made their own stuff that went into their cars, the quality was far better. Nowadays, it is just out-sourceing everything. Nobody takes responsibility.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
I agree with much of what youve said, but I doubt that the quality of the air bag system is any better. Whether Ford makes the radios or not, they have demonstrated that they dont mind putting garbage into their cars. Even if they did make a serious effort to put togther a quality air bag system, though, it is overcomplicated, has many points of failure, and cannot be tested or even exercised. Whether it will blow your thumbs off while youre driving down the road, or fail to deploy in a collision, becomes more of a crapshoot as the car ages.
I love the 70s Climatron system! I wouldnt want to give it the freedom to detonate an explosive device in my hands, but troubleshooting is usually straightforward. What kind of problem are you having with it?
The 70s cars were a strange mix of quality and absolute crap. The Guidematic, is that the auto-dimming system? The one on my 78 had piece of cardboard with a hole on it in front of the eye that broke off. Since that happened, it began picking up stray light and the dimming went nuts. What in the world were they thinking, making it out of cardboard?
A 60s car is definitely tempting. I wanted a 66-67 3-way hearse when I bought my 76, but finding one with potential in this area could have taken years.
-denise