Hopefully a fellow member can offer me some advice and direction. I engaged Passport ($5,000 cost to me)to transport four cherished vehicles of mine from Wisconsin to Tennessee. I also paid for $100K insurance for each car against loss/damage. Sadly, my 41 Cadillac 60 Special was badly damaged across the entire roof of the care. The car was loaded incorrectly, as it bounced on its suspension hitting the platform above it which supported another car of mine. Passports insurance refuses to transport the car or to have it restored in the shop of my choice (RM Restorations, Ontario). Their policy dictates if the car is "drivable" it must be repaired locally. This is a 100 point senior and premier award winning classic, and the insurance company is not recognizing its value, rarity or prestine restored condition. Now I know why most Americans distrust and dislike insurance companies. I need all the help and advice that I can get. Thank you.
Bill Podany
Knoxville, TN
As a member of a that most-hated profession, I suggest you contact an attorney in your state. Passports liability to you depends on things like your contract with Passport and whether they were negligent in the transport of your car, not necessarily whether their insurance covers this type of loss.
Thats a shame. Johnny raved about Passports service when he had his car transported to Florida. I used Passport and thought they were overpriced but my car was delivered intact without a glitch.
Marty
Sorry to hear it. I used Passport Transport to move my 42 Fleetwood from St. Louis (MO) to Columbia (SC) and was very satisfied with the servive I got for the price. As for insurance companies, having worked as a claims adjuster in Paris, in the early 60s, company policy was for us to find a way to say "No", as nicely as possible; then, if the insuree put up a fight, we would open the file again and gave him an "OK, well, maybe" and then offer him a ridiculouly low settlement. If he got real mad and threatened us with a law-suit ...we usually stopped and listened. Nasty tactics, but putting them into practise saved the company thousands!
Tom,
I am prepared to engage an insurance lawyer if necessary. Presently, I am working with my insurance company, Hagerty, which I think is an excellent company, and they have given me excellent service in the past. They may intervene on my behalf. I will study my contract, however more carefully with Passport. Thank you,
Bill Podany
Marty,
I also have used Passport in the past, and even transported the same 60 Special without incident which is why I chose them to move my collection to my new residence in Tennessee. I believe that the husband and wife driver team (who were very considerate and careful) were not experienced in positioning and stabalizing vintage automobiles in their transport van. I cautioned them when loading that the car had a soft suspension, and to anticipate that the car will move up and down. However, I cannot believe the trickery that the insurance company is trying to pull over my eyes to settle this claim.
Bill Podany
Im not an attorney, but I would think that if Passport violated their contract or didnt exercise reasonable care, they would be liable, period. If they dont carry adequate insurance for their negligence, its THEIR problem, not yours. Your contract is with Passport, not the insurance company. I dont understand how can they hide behind a third party.
Hello Yan,
Thanks for the insight regarding how to deal with a damage claim and an insurance company not committed to helping their premium holders. I will follow your advice. I am also engaging my insurance company, Hagerty, who I think is just great to intervene on my behalf with this recalcitrant insurance company deployed by Passport. On a personal note, I follow your Cadillac Data Base site often, and just love it. And I would like to send my appreciation to you for all the work that goes into that project for the benefit of many collectors and restorers. I follow your forum posts also, as I am always impressed with your knowledge and helpful attitude to others in need. Sincerely.
Bill Podany
Knoxville, TN
If the shipper warns the carrier of special needs for the car, such as a bouncy suspension and a need for more room at the top, and the carrier disregards the instructions due to inexperience and the desire to stuff four vehicles onto the trailer, that sounds to me like a pretty good negligence case. Bill in Tennessee, while the conversations are still fresh in your memory, you need to write them down as nearly verbatim as possible, with no fudging, and then go see your lawyer.
This is an opportunity for the CLC to be of service.
If passport were to receive a letter from the CLC President, saying that a membership has been notified of a complaint about the problems he is having with Passport, it might persuade Passport to take better care of the customer.
After what I have read about Passport, I wouldnt want to use them. They should be told they are being discussed on the Forum!
Harry Carlson #16432
<b>Passports insurance refuses to transport the car or to have it restored in the shop of my choice (RM Restorations, Ontario)<b/>
I have been in the Collision business for almost 20 years. This I can tell you for sure from some of my experiences with insurance companies,
You are entitled to "pre loss condition"
You are entitled to use the shop of your choice(in your area).
You are NOT entitled to have your car transported if it is safe to drive.
You are NOT entitled to have your car fixed by a shop in another country.
The insurance company will make a strong argument that there is a competent repair shop in the area. You will need to make an even better argument that XXX Auto body is the only shop capable of repairing the car to pre loss condition.
IMHO, you dont have much to stand on
unless you agreed in writing, that in the event of vehicle damage the vehicle must be repaired by XXX Auto Body.
Just curious, you claim they are not recognizing the value of the car. How much was their estimate written for? Do you have your own estimate as a comparison?
I understand your passion about whom shall repair your car & I would demand the same, but most Insurance Companies do not share our passion.
Please keep us posted,
Lou
Tom: I would think he has a good case even if he didnt warn them about the special needs of the car. If they purport to be in the antique car shipping business, arent they supposed to be familiar with the requirements even without having been informed?
Quote from: Martin RodThats a shame. Johnny raved about Passports service when he had his car transported to Florida. I used Passport and thought they were overpriced but my car was delivered intact without a glitch.
Marty
As a clarification, my car was shipped by FedEx, which I believe owns or bought out Passport. Im not sure about how the company is now structured, as to who handles the actual shipping, but my car was shipped by a truck that said Fed Ex, and I could not have been more pleased with the service. The driver was very through in shipping my car, and I would still strongly recommend them.
As a fellow enthusiasts with a special attachment to my "Pride and Joy", I can relate to how you must have felt when you received your vehicle with damage. Hopefully you will be able to resolve this situation in a way that is to your liking.
Without going into detail of my almost "drastic situation" when it came time to ship my car, let me just say that even in the best of situations when dealing with a reputable company, one has to be very alert to all the details involved in doing the shipping.
When shipping a car, one must do their "homework", and fully research the company they are doing business with.
Hello Lou, the Devils Advocate,
Thank you for your insight on the insurance practices of car carriers. I appreciate your honesty. Yes there are other shops in the USA that could do the job, but I have used RM in Chatham, Ontario (across the Detrioit River from Detroit)on this same auto, and would prefer them; but I do know others in Wisconsin and Chicago. When I get comparative estimates, I will follow your suggestion and post them. I will keep this site updated as it gets resolved.
Bill Podany
Knoxville
Johnny,
I agree, and I did do that in this case, and selected Passport because of their expertise in special autos, and also because of my previous experiences in having Passport transport cars for me long distances with never an incident, including this same Cadillac. The cause of this I believe was a husband and wife driver team who seemed to lack depth of experience in securing, tieing down, and the proper loading of large vintage automobiles, each having their own individual nuances requiring special care....which I provided to them. In hindsight, another car (in this case a Porsche) should not be stacted above this 41 60 Special.
From your post it appears to be that the problem was caused by the inexperience of the team that actually handled your vehicle. The gentleman that handled my job couldnt have been more professional. He was scheduled to arrive at my home at apprx. 2 PM. He was coming from the Boston area to the South Jersey area, and got jammed up in the New York area, which is to be expected, and arrived some 4-5 hours later. He called me 3-4 times with updates. Once he arrived, he throughly went over my car, with flashlight around his head, like a surgeon. Before he loaded it onto the ramp to be hoisted to the second row, he put a cover on the steering wheel and seats. Since I was his last stop, I was in the back of the top row. His equipment, tractor and trailer, looked almost brand new. Inside the tractor, looked like NASA, with all the latest tech aids. In the trailer, underneath the top row, was plastic, to stop any fluids from dripping on the vehicles on the bottom row.
The reason I post so much about my experience, is in the hopes of helping others to not make the mistake I almost made, and alleviate the problem you are having. While it might appear that I might be a cheerleader for Passport, its just my only intention to relate how my experience went with them, and some of the things a person that would be shipping a car, to look for.
Johnny,
Thanks for your recent response. I have used Passport on other occasions without incident; it is this singular incident which will cost thousands of dollars to repair (hoping not to dimminish the value of this Classic). It goes without saying that the husband and wife team loading these vehicles were not experienced in handling specially valued 65 year old and precisely restored vehicles.
However, Passports indignant and arrogant response to solving a serious accident which their personnel created is not only irresponsible, unethical, but plain bad business practices.
I will spread the word to any collector and car guy I can about Passports recalcitrant behavior, and unfriendly policies.
Bill Podany
Knoxville, TN
Have you made any headway recently?
Bill Podany,
While my post about shipping by FedEx, I might have appeared to be somewhat of a cheerleader for them, my primary purpose was to warn others who never shipped a car before to the pitfalls and problems they might encounter when they ship.
As previously stated, my experience with FedEx went off without a hitch and I was 100percent satisfied. In rereading the original post I notice that you used Passport. It is my understanding that FedEx does subcontract at a somewhat cheaper price. I went with FedEx and the trailer was designed to handle cars with the greatest of care. It only held 6 cars, 3 on top and 3 on bottom. They had plastic sheating running the length of the trailer under the top level, so no fluids would drip on the lower cars. The think I liked the best about FedEx was that they ship COD! A real plus!
In any event, my advice to anyone that does any shipping is "Buyer Beware"!
Jim,
Thanks for your continued interest. Passport Transports contract stipulates that the damaged car must be repaired locally and if the car runs, it will not pay to transport the car to any shop. The result of this is that they will not pay for me to have this car restored in a shop and location of my choice. The reality is that no shop in East Tennessee would even think of taking on this project. Passport told me to look harder. Any none of their shop recommendations that I contacted would tackle the repair. Passports insurance company views all repairs the same....regardless of the quality of the car; be it a rare collectable or a 10 year old Honda. So they sent me a settlement check for $2900, which my lawyer advises not to cash. My insurance company Hagerty has taken up my plight picking up the costs to transport the car to RM Classic Cars in Ontario to have it restored and returned to me. They will then duke it out with the third party insurance company. After exhaustive inquiries, this was my best course; the likelihood however is that Hagerty will raise my premiums. The current estimated cost of repair from Hagerty will be close to $10,000!
Gday Bill,
It is good that Hagertys is going to look after one of their clients.
That is why we have Insurance Companies.
I cant see how they could raise your premiums as the damage wasnt done by you, but as a direct result of another party.
The Insurance Companies will fight it out between themselves.
Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Johnny,
Your description of the Passport trailer is exactly what was used when I contracted for one complete truck. They transported four cars (two classic Cadillacs) and a Harley Davidson. They took the greatest of care in loading at my home, but a major error was made in that the drivers stacked my Porsche above the 41 Cadillac, and there was not enough room apparently for the Cadillac to bounce on its own suspension. I have used Passport before, even for this same 41 Cadillac, and never had a problem; but the previous drivers never stacked another car above it. This was strickly a case of inexperience with the driving team....a very nice and accommodating husband and wife team. I used Passport on this occasion because they had done a commendable job in the past for me. But now, I am definitely ANTI-PASSPORT because they have been irresponsible in resolving my claim to what any car collector would say is a fair request.
Quote from: Bill PodanyJohnny,
Your description of the Passport trailer is exactly what was used when I contracted for one complete truck. They transported four cars (two classic Cadillacs) and a Harley Davidson. They took the greatest of care in loading at my home, but a major error was made in that the drivers stacked my Porsche above the 41 Cadillac, and there was not enough room apparently for the Cadillac to bounce on its own suspension. I have used Passport before, even for this same 41 Cadillac, and never had a problem; but the previous drivers never stacked another car above it. This was strickly a case of inexperience with the driving team....a very nice and accommodating husband and wife team. I used Passport on this occasion because they had done a commendable job in the past for me. But now, I am definitely ANTI-PASSPORT because they have been irresponsible in resolving my claim to what any car collector would say is a fair request.
Bill, I can understand the reason you feel the way you do, and quite frankly I would feel the same way, and would probably not use Passport again. If nothing else, I hope that your post and subsequent posts by others has made anyone that will at sometime find the need to ship their car, to be aware of the pitfalls and problems that can arise!
The shortsightedness of corporate bureaucracies never ceases to amaze! How in the world could an insurance company for a CLASSIC, COLLECTOR car transporter really claim that the local generic body shop in Taterville is a realistic option? Surely, they would have to know how valuable these vehicles can be and how expensive they are to fix properly. How can they feign such complete ignorance of the business they are in? Im no lawyer, but I cant help thinking a judge would see this as transparent bad faith on Passports part. Particularly after you have established that no body shop in the area will touch it. Even they know they arent qualified.
BTW, have you posted your troubles on the AACA board? That is such a big organization. Maybe that might get their attention.
Good for Hagerty and shame, shame, shame on Passport! I am a novice and have never shipped a car, but I now would certainly think twice about Passport. Good luck, and please keep us posted.
I would think that part of the problem with Passport, is that unlike us, they view, the cars they ship, as only freight, and not the treasures they are. Nor are they well versed what it takes to restore these cars to their past glory.
Hopefully your bad experience, and some of my posts concerning shipping a car, will help those, who in the future, have to ship a car. You just cant be cautious enough, to assure your car will be shipped on time and in the same condition as when they picked it up, and if their is damage, it will be repaired, to the standard it deserves.
This needs to be an article in the Self Starter. It should also be an article in Hemmings. Ive had the same treatment (from Farmers Insurance). They sent me to some hayseed who TRIED TO STEAL THE CAR. He was one of their "recommended providers." Really.
I live in Birmingham and have an excellent paint and body man here who is expensive as heck, but does first class work. Let me know if Ontario doesnt work out for some reason.
Morgan
This is not the first disaster Ive heard about involving
Passport.
Ive used Intercity Transport and they are utmost professionals and I highly recommend them. Mike
Well looks like its been along journey for you to get your car repaired, Sorry for your troubles.
I have a heard mention of the transport company not protecting our beloved cars, or that they treat it like freight.
Well guess what to us its a hobby, to them its a business.
All too often people forget that they are actually making business transition with folks who are no hobbyist. They are actually only concerned with the money aspect.
We must treat every thing as a business deal
One thing thats been passed over is hagerty picking up the bill, Hagerty offers "Agreed value coverage" Had this fellow been with some other company who did not offer "agreed Value coverage" His car may of been totaled out instead of getting a $10,000.00 repair done.
If you have a collectible car, and use it as a collectible car and your policy does not state "agreed value coverage" then your not properly insured
Mike Josephic: Devils Advocate
Thanks for the lead on Intercity Transport; I have gotten very good reports on them, and in the future, I will try their services.
Bill Podany
Knoxville, TN
Jim S CLC
Since Hagerty has taken over, the car is getting restored properly and should be back in my garage within a few weeks. RM Classic Cars is a class organization and does superior restoration work; I have used them on prior projects. However it is their policy that they do not pay transportation to and from thier shop. So I will get stuck with about a $2000 bill for round trip shipping from Ontario to Knoxville. It is unfair and unethical that this cost to me occurred because I hired an expensive and supposedly professional transportation company which damaged my car in transport because they stacked one of my other cars too close to the top of the 41 Cadillac. Both Hagerty and Passport have this same rule about not paying for the transportation to and from ones shop of choice.
Johnny #662
I have been told by several restoration shops servicing the CCCA Membership that Passport was a fine and responsive and ethical company when it was privately held and run by its founder in St. Louis. The intelligence that I have gathered is that ever since FedEx bought Passport Transport, the quality of service has radically declined. FedEx has imploded their corporate rules and contractual protections for their profitability; the result is that they have forgotten about the foundational customer centric principles of careful handling, fair policies, and properly trained driving and loading teams. After all, their business was founded on servicing rare, expensive, and cherished automobiles owned by discerning individuals. I have learned that most of Passports experienced drivers have left the company for these same reasons; they have moved on to Intercity Transport, Reliable, and Blue Highways.
Morgan Murphy,
Thanks for your help regarding the restoration of my Cadillac. Fortunately, RM Classic Cars out of Blenheim, Ontario is doing a beautiful job, and the car should be returned within a few weeks to Knoxville, TN. I would submitt an article to either Hemmings or the Self Starter, but I am sure that they would view my story as defensive and vindictive and one that would underscore the infermities of a personal claim.
Quote from: Bill PodanyJohnny #662
I have been told by several restoration shops servicing the CCCA Membership that Passport was a fine and responsive and ethical company when it was privately held and run by its founder in St. Louis. The intelligence that I have gathered is that ever since FedEx bought Passport Transport, the quality of service has radically declined. FedEx has imploded their corporate rules and contractual protections for their profitability; the result is that they have forgotten about the foundational customer centric principles of careful handling, fair policies, and properly trained driving and loading teams. After all, their business was founded on servicing rare, expensive, and cherished automobiles owned by discerning individuals. I have learned that most of Passports experienced drivers have left the company for these same reasons; they have moved on to Intercity Transport, Reliable, and Blue Highways.
Thanks for the update and info. Hopefully these posts will help others in the future when they need to ship their cars.