55 Sedan starting issue - resolved

[caddychap]

Turns out it was the starter solenoid.  I put a new one in yesterday and it starts up nice.  Thanks everyone for all of your assistance!!!

Hi All - I have a starting issue with my 55 Sedan that I hope someone can help me with.  When I turn the key to the start position, the starter cranks, but the car does not fire up.  There is no spark in the start position.  However, when I release the key to the on position, the car then starts up (but just barely).  So essentially, there is only a spark when I release the key to the on position.  My ballast resistor looked blown out, so I replaced it with a new one.  I replaced the ignition coil with a known good coil.  However, the problem persists.  Is it possible that this problem is due to a faulty ignition switch?  I am really bad with electronics, so I hope someone can spoon-feed me some assistance on this.  Thanks!

[J. Gomez]

Caddychap,

You should have a wire “yellow” from the starter solenoid which goes over to one side of the ballast resistor same terminal that the ignition coils connects.
During cranking the solenoid provide a direct path from the +12v on this wire up to the distributor. Once you release the key the +12V is provided by the ignition switch through the ballast resistor.
If you have no spark or +12v during cranking you could have a dirty/broken wire “yellow from the solenoid or a defective contacts on the solenoid itself.

Hope this helps.

Good luck

[caddychap]

Thanks Jose for your quick response.  So that yellow wire which comes out of the wiring harness up at the firewall and goes into the ballast resistor - that yellow wire is connected down at the starter solenoid? It sounds like the ignition switch is not my problem, since it runs when I release the key.  Tomorrow I have the day off, so I will check that yellow wire's connection down at the starter solenoid and see if this is where the issue is.  Thanks and I will post my findings!

[Dave Shepherd]

Jose's advice is on target, to confirm the  issue run a 12v jumper from the battery to the pos. side of the coil, should start and run, key on thru the ballast you should have about 7v at the pos. side of the coil and when cranking only, full 12v.

[walt chomosh #23510]

caddychap,
The battery could cause this problem that you have.(or starter for that matter) When a battery is weak,the starter will draw so much juice that the coil voltage will drop and that reduced spark won't fire the motor.But,disengaging the starter(releasing the key) will boost the spark  and the motor will start.(or try to start)  Try starting the car with another battery or with another car using jumper cables. This is a common problem seen in all vehicles with a weak battery.....walt..tulsa,ok...let me know what you find,please....

[caddychap]

Thanks everyone for your responses and advice.  The problem still persists.  Here's what I did today:
1) I checked the yellow wire connection at the starter.  Although this wire has seen better days, it appears sound enough.  I undid each wire connection at the starter and freshened the ends up by scrubbing them with steel wool.  I also freshened up the ground strap for good measure.
2) I connected a new piece of 16 gauge jumper wire at the terminal where the yellow wire connects to the starter, and ran the wire up to the terminal on the ballast resistor where the yellow wire connects after it comes out of the firewall.  Was that a proper thing to do, or not?  I am now thinking that the yellow wire runs through the ignition switch, so maybe this test was useless?  Again, I am very bad with electronics, so bear with me.

The battery is new and strong, and I had the starter rebuilt about 4 years ago, so I don't think these are to blame. As an added hassle, a few days ago, my generator telltale light started burning strong all the time.  It always would glow dimly whenever the engine was at low idle, but now it burns bright even when the engine is running strong.  I had the generator rebuilt about 7 years ago, so I hope it is not fritzing out on me.  Today I freshened up the wires connecting to the generator and I tried to polarize it using the method I found in another post, but it did not work. 

So that's the latest.  I don't know what tests to do next, can anyone suggest anything? I will also try Dave's suggestion to  run a 12v jumper from the battery to the positive side of the coil.  So could this be a) an ignition switch issue, or b) a voltage regulator issue?  Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!!

[Dave Shepherd]

Using a voltmeter, you should have  about 6.5 to 7.0 volts( key on only).. to the coil plus side as that circuit goes thru the resistor.  When cranking, pos. side coil voltage is 9 plus volts.  To check the gen., ground the field wire on the gen. ( smaller one) this by passes the reg. and you should have 13.5v plus, gen output.

[caddychap]

I concentrated on my starting issue today, and left the generator issue for another day.  I ran a jumper wire from the positive battery terminal to the positive coil terminal, and it started up great.  So I decided to start it up a few more times just to admire my handiwork, but on the 3rd try, it didn't start up.  But then again, the jumper wire was not connected all that solidly to the battery and/or coil (I just kind of pressed each end of the jumper wire to their respective ends).  But it did work nicely those 2 times. Although when this jumper wire was hooked up like this, I did notice that 1) the ballast resistor got extremely bright and glowed orange (I could see the reflection off of the firewall), and 2) the oil and generator telltale lights glowed even when the key was not in the ignition. Are these 2 observations normal? 

So where does that leave me now? Does this mean that I should be concentrating on replacing my crummy yellow wire which goes from the starter solenoid to the ballast resistor? I did run a new wire from the starter solenoid to the ballast resistor, but I also left the original crummy yellow wire attached at both ends.  This new wire didn't help anything, but could that be because the old crummy wire (presumably with cracks and faults in it) is sucking juice from the solenoid and not allowing the new wire to convey the full power to the solenoid? Will it be better if I disconnect the original crummy yellow wire at both ends and have the new wire stand on it's own? I appreciate any suggestions!  Thanks!!

[Dave Shepherd]

Direct 12v should be going to the pos. side of the coil when cranking only this by passes the resistor, release the key to the run position the current now goes thru the resistor to drop it to 7v or so. both these wires are on the pos side of the coil. I assume the wire from the starter is connected to the output side of the resistor, after the car started you should have disconnected that wire from the battery. Again you need a voltmter to check bothe the cranking and run circuits at the coil and the resistor junction.

[caddychap]

With the engine off and the key clicked to run, I had 6.5 volts at the coil positive terminal.  I did not test it when cranking or once the car was started, but I will.  As far as disconnecting the wire which I ran from the battery to the coil: once the car started up, I did remove the wire, but the engine died out immediately.  Shouldn't the car have kept running once I disconnected that wire? 

I am going to disconnect the crummy yellow wire completely and just have the new yellow wire connected. I will let you all know how this helps.

Thanks again everyone for your help - I greatly appreciate everyone's patience and willingness to assist me.

[Dave Shepherd]

Yes it now should have run off the resisted wire which you say read 6.5, key on.  Make sure this coil is not an internally resisted coil that does not belong on a car with an inline resistor.

[caddychap]

Thanks Dave.  No, the coil is not an internally resisted one.

[Dave Shepherd]

Check the resistance across the 2 coil terminals against specs or post the results.

[caddychap]

Check the resistance across the 2 coil terminals against specs or post the results.

1.6 ohms.  So coil appears to be good.  I will be working on my car this weekend, and I will post my results.  Thanks again, everyone!

[J. Gomez]

Caddychap,

I’m attaching a section from the wiring diagram for the ignition path. The red line represent the +12V path from the solenoid up to the resistor during cranking.

The pink line represent the +12V source from the ignition switch up to the other side of the resistor once it’s running.

The resistor will drop the +12V from the ignition switch down to about +9V - +10V.

If you have no spark or voltage at the coil “black” or resistor “yellow” as I’ve previously indicated you may have a problem on this path.

If you can’t keep her running once the key is release, the problem could be on pink wire path, ignition switch, resistor and/or pink wire path. The pink wire is splice inside the hardness close to the fuse box with others, just as FYI.

Hope this helps on your trouble shooting.

Good luck..!

[caddychap]

Jose, many thanks. This will help me in narrowing down the problem.

[caddychap]

Here's what I have found.  I tested the continuity and resistance of the yellow wire that goes from the starter solenoid to the ballast resistor.  The wire is fine.  However, I hooked up a multimeter to that terminal on the solenoid, and there is no power at that terminal when I crank the engine.  That's why no power is going up the yellow wire to the resistor and to the coil.  So I figure I have a bad starter solenoid terminal.  For good measure, I checked the ignition switch with a test light, and all terminals are working great. So does it sound like a bad starter solenoid.  Please weigh in!  Thanks!!

[J. Gomez]

caddychap,

BINGO..! You found your problem; the solenoid is not making contact with the main +12V power. A new solenoid should fix your problem.

One quick test you could do is placed a direct +12V at the resistor side were the yellow wire is, then once the engine starts removed it. The engine should now run from the ignition switch power through the resistor. If the engine dies you may need to check the resistor and/or the ignition switch.

Good luck..!

[caddychap]

Jose - I just tried the test you suggested - the car started right up and when I removed the jumper wire, the engine continued to run! I am going to order a new solenoid and hopefully that will solve it.  I am cautiously optimistic that this will do the trick.  Thanks!!!

[caddychap]

Turns out it was the starter solenoid.  I put a new one in yesterday and it starts up nice.  Thanks everyone for all of your assistance!!!