Grand National judging

[Joe Manna]

I recently entered my 1991 Brougham(RWD),in this years GN in Boston.Which was a great weekend for those who attended.I placed the car in the Touring Class,because it is driven and is not perfect as some of the other cars.I did however,win a 1st in the class.

It scored 90 out of 100 points to do so.I sent away for my judging summary,which I received yesterday.Hope that Carl Steig is feeling better.3 of the judges comments were the hose clamps,which I just found out which are the correct clamps.

The other comment was the battery.Now my question is,wouldn't that be considered maintenance?.It is an AC Delco battery.Now after 22 years,you would think that a battery that was installed in the car from new would not be available anymore?.

Why would I get points deducted for a Delco battery?.I can see and understand if it was another brand.Case in point,when I showed the car in the '08 GN,it had an interstate battery in it.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?.

Thanks in advance

Joe

[Dan LeBlanc]

I'd check to see what the judging manual has to say. It's available for download on the CLC home page

[Dan LeBlanc]

Just checked for you. It's a 2 point authenticity deduction for using a battery that is of the wrong design for the era.

[Joe Manna]

Hi Dan,
Thanks for the info.I really appreciate it.
Regards,
Joe

[Dan LeBlanc]

I guess the predicament here is that nobody makes a reproduction battery for a 1991.  If you have an AC Delco maintenance free battery, yes the logos will be newer, but it should be of the same style that was there in 1991 essentially.  I'm not sure I understand the deduction here.  Some things you can't control, NOS will be junk, and there's no other option.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Joe,
The time to check the rules is before the game.  Yes they are demanding. So much so that we seem to be pricing ourselves out of the judging being a friendly competition due to the cost of the "exact reproduction, correct number, date stamped" reproductions that we are going to have to buy in order to be competitive.  Frame off restorations on 5 year old cars are not unheard of.  Check the rules for the class you want to enter, tally up the cost of the parts necessary to make your car comply, and decide if the reward is worth the costs.  Just as an example, on tires, you can't get "original" tires from the major manufacturers for anything older than a few years.  $800.00 or so just for "correct" tires sort of takes the competition to a new level.
That said, there were some fabulous cars at the Grand Nationals, as there are every year. However I personally know of a couple of people that dropped out of showing cars (for judging) citing the emphasis on perfection for ALL classes.  I was told a long time ago that "there is no perfection this side of the grave".
Greg Surfas

[Dan LeBlanc]

My car is original except for belts, hoses, tires, plug wires (the original ones were still on there when I removed them last month), plugs, brake shoes, flex hoses (you know, maintenance stuff), and paint on the upper half of the engine (to correct authenticity issues).  I got a second place junior at Hershey two weeks ago.  I'm sure I lost points for cracks in the paint, the two pits on the front bumper, and the brightwork not being as bright as a fresh replate.  Dash has a few scratches on the metal.

Will I correct these things just to win a trophy?  Heck no.  I spoke with someone who's opinion I respect highly.  I refuse to alter my 96% original car (4% non original items noted above) just to win a trophy because you can't replace that originality.  That gentleman wholeheartedly agrees.

Guess it all depends on how far you want to take it.

I'll see how it does next year at Lake George at a CLC event with the authenticity issues straightened.  I've also been encouraged to enter it for a preservation award.

[planetcadillac]

I would like to hear more about this subject. I have not judged for CLC but have judged professionally for other organizations and generally use the rule that on disposable items like tires, belts, battery, etc. Using the correct type and style most important and the labeling and or brand (in terms of tires more specifically) is less important. A correct group 78 side post AC DELCO battery would pass muster with me and usually does with most judges that I have experienced. I had a 34/78 dual terminal AC DELCO battery in my car once and that could be construed as in authentic because the factory never put one in the car. As for tires, on my 83 Eldorado I have the correct 205/75/15 size with correct 1.3" wide whitewalls which are consistent with the factory originals. I assume Uniroyal was the original brand, but no one to my knowledge offers a Uniroyal branded tire in that size and white wall width so again I would pass it. Belts, AC DELCO/GM belts are still available new for most cars of post-WWII vintage and a good correct quality appearing belt passes muster unless it is one of those belt that has an obvious aftermarket logo on it or not the traditional smooth V-belt. Some stuff the absolutely correct items are outside of reasonable cost, some are simply unavailable.

Craig #17308

[Jeff Wilk]

What is the condition of a car that can be entered in the Touring Class?

[Joe Manna]

Guys,
Thanks for all the replies.I am going to try to correct some of the issues for next years GN.

Jeff,
The condition of a "Touring" class car is simply not like new.If you look at the judging guidelines in the directory,it gives the definition of Touring.Simply put,not perfect.

[Jason Edge]

The Judging Manual is available from the home page. Just click Technical Resources then Judging Manual and description of the Touring class is on page 13.
Here is a direct link to the manual: http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/images/CLC_Judging_Manual_20130601.pdf

[76eldo]

My 70 DeVille won a preservation award at the recent Boston GN.

I also had it in the primary class, and got a 3rd.  I wasn't expecting to do better than that due to some flaws that can be expected on a 43 year old car.

I would think if you had a Delco brand battery of the proper group and size that would suffice.  My car has a bright yellow Duralast battery in it, and that's what came with the car.  I have seen battery shells that fit over a modern battery that look like an original 70 battery that are really cool.  My car has the original spring ring cables, but clearly an offensive looking battery.

A deduction was made for that, as well as dealer applied undercoating.  I wasn't expecting these deductions, but that's what the judges saw, so that's OK with me.

I do think that a modern Delco battery should be acceptable since it is a wear item, like belts and hoses.

Brian