1940 60s is the big slab of wood under the rockers repopped?

[johnwalker]

mine is a bit soft here and there. does someone manufacture these? thanks, john walker

[Quentin Hall]

Gday John, before you open Pandora's box, consider using epoxy resin and flock to repair the weak spots. Most marine shops will stock it. I have used it on wooden boats with incredible results, also heard that to replace them you need to lift body from chassis. Someone has templates . I remember reading it, Brad Ipsen will know.

[Doug Houston]

If the wood sills on your car are in bad shape, I'd advise leaving well enough alone.

The body bolts and attaches in several other ways to these sill planks.

The drawing for the '41 main sills does exist, but it's known to be very old paper, and no picnic to reproduce.

Quentin hall has a good idea for spot repairs, so if his idea can be applied, best to go that way. 

[johnwalker]

thanks. Quentin, loving your project on the HAMB. you're a bad infuence.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Carl Steig and I purchased a set of the blueprints together, so with his passing, I guess I am now the custodian of the plans. I have been offering the use of the blueprints for as long as you need them for a minimum contribution to the Cadillac Museum of $75.00 plus postage to you and back to me. (Most people that have borrowed the plans have had them reproduced so as to keep track of where the plans are more easily.) The plans are for the 1941 60S. For the three earlier years, simply delete the step plate over the fender caps. It may be that 1938,39, and 1940 may have to be slightly altered due to running changes throughout the four year production run. Barry Wheeler.

[Doug Houston]

Glad to know that the drawing for he sills was copied. I'm the guy with the original of he drawing, and might possibly my drawing was the master. It came from Fisher Body in the fifties, or early sixties. A guy in Missouri "borrowed" the drawing and had it until this last year. It finally found its way to Terry Wenger, and he returned it to me.

The sills on my '41 have been repaired (by me), and are serviceable. replacing them would be a real nightmare.

The wood sills on  my '38 are still sol;id as new. That car has spent all but a few weeks in garages, throughout its life.

For the icing on the cake, the dash plastic pieces are still original. The steering wheel has a funny laminar cracking, but is still intact. It's hard for even me to believe. If the steering wheel ever begins to disintegrate, I have a new one, in the box to install.

[Paul Phillips]

The 41 sills are tricky but can be reproduced. I reverse engineered a lot of this and then found out about Barry's blueprints, which added a few useful details and saved some time/effort in the final fitting. I would strongly recommend anyone wanting to repro these to take Barry up on his loaner offer.

Doug - if you have original drawings, it would be great to see if they contain any different details. I made a working copy of Barry's print to not risk the original - I could send that to you for comparison if you are willing to take that on.

I am not wanting to go in business making these parts, but if it is the difference in saving one of these wonderful cars, please get in touch.  I have several templates and routing fixtures I made for my resto project, so it is not impossible to do another set.

Paul

[Doug Houston]

I could probably make a comparison. It would be easy with the help of my helper (I need help with lots of things). As I said, my drawing could have been the master that was copied. I got it from Fisher Body's drawing master. Nice when you know someone!

The drawing is  big J-roll thing,. full size. You'd never dare to scale it, of course.

I did have new wood pieces made from oak, for the two fender extensions under the doors. I black enameled them. They went on the car just like from Cadillac parts.

I understand that the original woods in these sills, and other places in the body, were Ash, and not Oak.

[Paul Phillips]

Doug
Please send me a PM with your mailing address and I will send you my copy of Barry's print.  Please return sometime, after you have done the comparison.

Interesting about the original wood choice.  I used ash to remake my sill parts, but my car came with oak sills, and any discussion or pictures I remember seeing were also oak.  I used a penetrating epoxy sealant to protect the wood before installation.  That is what will show on my car, except where body paint covers them under the door threshold plates.

Thanks
Paul

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Paul, Without taking the rocker molding off, one could not tell for sure, but when I looked at the sill plates visible under the 1941 60S being offered by Bill Ingler for a friend on the for sale portion of the Forum, they were flat black.

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Barry

Please educate me.  Were the Ingler ash sill plates flat black because the vehicle was undercoated?  Thank you.

[Barry M Wheeler #2189]

Hi Chuck, I'm sorry, but I was trying also to keep my pants leg clean and it's been a few years. But as I recall, the wood did not look undercoated. Just a flat blackish gray.

[Caddy Wizard]

Paul and all on this thread,


I am a 49-56 guy and have no idea what is original as to the wood species for these wooden rails.  But as an amatuer furniture maker, I can tell you what I know about the wood species mentioned thus far on this board.

Ash is a relatively strong, relatively flexible wood that is not terribly prone to splitting and splintering.  It has an appearance not unlike red oak.  Has been used for baseball bats for years (was the predominant choice, until a recent move to maple, which is harder and splinters more).

Red oak has a similar grain pattern to ash and is fairly strong.  Not terribly water-resistant.

White oak has a much tighter grain pattern than either of the above, is very strong and hard, and is extremely water-resistant.  As for its water-resistance, it is often compared to teak or mahogany or cypress, and makes a good choice for outdoor usage.  The wood is so hard and dense that it is noticeably more difficult to cut than ash or red oak.  If you use quartersawn white oak, the wood has superior dimensional stability and resistance to warping.  Quartersawn white oak is the wood of choice for traditional "craftsman" style furniture.

As you can tell from the above, not all "oak" is the same.  Red oak has very different characteristics from white oak.  Most inexpensive oak furniture is red oak.  Working with white oak is like working concrete.  But the results have a certain permanence unmatched by the other woods.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Barry:  Car has never been undercoated.  Bill