1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville 2dr Hardtop

[RMR]

Hello all!

I started out on the Cadillac owners forum and they mentioned I ought to join you guys for some more specific information.  My name is David. I'm 26 years old, so I'm probably a young one on here. Started my own business in 2013 restoring classic vehicles. Started out renting, but bought my own shop Oct. 2014 and now I've got a 3 year waiting list.

I went through the 4 year restoration program at McPherson College in Kansas. Now I have a B.S. in Technology with emphasis in Automotive Restoration. (Yes that's a real degree! B.S. stands for bachelor of science, though I might deserve it standing for something else... haha)

During and after college I did around 7 internships at hot rod, high end, and european shops as well as a dash cluster place and even a museum. I've made some fun connections, worked on some really cool cars, and am enjoying it all.

List of some cars I've had a hand in: 1936 Ford 3 window, 1915 Pierce Arrow, 1930ish? Stutz Bearcat, 1908 Holsman, 1950 Mercury Convertible, 1964.5 Mustang, 1937 Delahaye, Mannerheim's Mercedes Grosser 770, 1951 MGTD, 1970 Mach 1 Mustang, 1965 Chevelle, John Deere 3010, 1968 Camaro, and a 1959 Cadillac Coupe Deville. (plus several other really minor things.)

The Cadillac is obviously why I'm here. Working on it for a customer. It came from Arizona, so the body is in great condition. Unfortunately it is a basket case because it was completely disassembled before coming in. There are several things that I'll need help determining what is missing, but those can be under another thread.

As far as my own driveable vehicles, I've got a 1995 Bronco, 2007 Yamaha Royal Star Tour Deluxe, and a 1956 Buick Special 2 Dr hardtop. In various states of repair I've got a 1958 F-250 step side, a 1977 Ford truck, and a 1959 Rambler wagon.

I know a bit about things but I'm young and know I don't know it all. Love to learn new info especially from those who have been around it forever. Hopefully I can help here and there, and I look forward to learning from you all.


Thanks,

David

(Here is a picture to get things started.  Hopefully this works.)

[59-in-pieces]

David,
Welcome, and at such a tender age, too.
You may be right about the age differences, and there are maybe some here who have tennis shoes older than you - LOL, with all due respect to them.
There are a fair number of guys here who also have years of "hands on" experience, which is what you likely need, and are not shy to share.
Just ask your questions, and stand back.
Have fun,
Steve B.

[Walter Youshock]

If only that were a college major 30 years ago!  Welcome.  I'm sure you could teach us a few things as well.

[59-in-pieces]

Walter,
I do agree with you on the degree.
Sounds like David has a fair amount of experience, and not afraid to get his hands dirty.
IMHO - I just hope he does not go rouge - seduced to the dark side - and starts overly modifying that gr8 car.
Have fun,
Steve B.

[patton6606@gmail.com]

Hello David

Glad to have you join us.  You are establishing a good automotive foundation.  We have a petitioning provisional CLC 5960 Cadillacs Chapter for you to join too.  You can contact me fifty9sixtycadillacsemail addresses not permitted.  If possible try to attend our 2016 CLC Grand National in April in Las Vegas.

[D.Yaros]

David,

I believe I am the guilty party is suggesting you join the CLC and come over to the forum?  Glad you did.  As you can see, the folks are friendly and willing to help.  Glad to have you!

[RMR]

Thanks everyone.  Unfortunately, I know I wont be able to make it to Vegas this year.  Way too many things going on.  Its never to late to go back to college guys!  I had multiple people in my class who were 50+ years old.  (But its private school tuition... $$$$$) 

As far as the Cadillac, we're not planning to get too crazy with it.  So far the only modifications we're planning are: front disc brakes with new power brake booster/cylinder, some type of alternator, and a mini starter if they're available.  No chopping or outlandish paint schemes.  I'd love to put air ride on it, but the customer has a limited budget.

Ill post a few more pictures here for you.  Here is the frame after removing it from the body.  A bit greasy and surface rust.  Zero chunky rust, and there was still a decent amount of paint left on it!  What they say about Arizona cars is true.  I decided to get it sandblasted though to have a nice clean base for paint.  There is a guy here who does it and it cost around $150.



This is after painting the frame when it got back from sandblaster.  The paint is comparable to POR 15.  It goes directly over prepped bare metal.  Humidity is what cures it.  I was impressed how hard and durable it dried.  Very similar to powdercoating.





The body mount bushings were pretty shot so we decided since we had the body off it made sense to replace them all.  (About $500 just in the rubber bushings!..:fearful:)
It was at this point that I quickly figured out, Cadillac parts are expensive.  Lol



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[RMR]

First serious question.  Freeze plugs.  When the car came in I checked out the motor which has been rebuilt.  Things basically seem in order.  It is missing a freeze plug though for some reason.  I can't confidently say whether they just never installed that one or it fell out at some point.  It does not appear they used any form of sealant when they installed the ones that are in the motor.  I also have never dealt with this flat disc type of freeze plug before.

With that information, I'm trying to decide which route to go.  I could install the missing plug, and risk the possibility of the others having not been installed well and possibly leaking.  I could change them all and include sealant, hoping that I installed them correctly.  Or I've also heard of a completely different type of rubber edged plug which expands as you tighten it.  Very open to thoughts and I don't want to have issues with this when the car is assembled.

Thanks!

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[59-in-pieces]

David,
Did you happen to see a stencil on the frame giving the manufactures details.
If so, hope you documented it.
Did you, or can you confirm that the "VIN' numbers were visible on the driver's side frame horn - next to where the radiator mounts - and photo document it.
Dd you locate another "VIN" number stamped into the driver's side frame at the rear, where the gas tank and trunk floor would be located - and photo doc it.
Just for fun, what was the tuition.
Have fun and take many many many - get the point - pictures.
Steve B.

[59-in-pieces]

David,
IMHO - As the owner of the car, I would look to you to do a job which does not fail.
You can't say, it was the original guy's poor work, particularly since you have spotted the mistakes - time to correct it.
Replacing freeze plugs is both cheap in parts and labor - don't take a chance - just replace them all with a style of plug you were taught to use (likely not discs, but with the metal collar, easy to countersink in ??) - new technology beats 50+ years old tech = the state of the art, argument/defense.
Don't use the rubber one that gets larger in the hole with tightening - that is 40+ year old tech and was used for the road side fixes with limited access - punch the leaking plug into the block and tighten.
Let your conscience be your guide, and it will serve your reputation well, going forward.
Otherwise, with a poor reputation, that 3 years waiting list might evaporate over night.
Have fun,
Steve B.

[RMR]

Ive been leaning toward replacing them all for that reason exactly.  I dont believe the typical cup shaped plugs you see on most cars will work on this motor as there is no room for the lip.  It would have to be the disc type which you peen in the middle to set.  Then add a little sealant to prevent a leak.

David,
Did you happen to see a stencil on the frame giving the manufactures details.
If so, hope you documented it.
Did you, or can you confirm that the "VIN' numbers were visible on the driver's side frame horn - next to where the radiator mounts - and photo document it.
Dd you locate another "VIN" number stamped into the driver's side frame at the rear, where the gas tank and trunk floor would be located - and photo doc it.
Just for fun, what was the tuition.
Have fun and take many many many - get the point - pictures.
Steve B.

As far as a stencil of manufacturer details, you'd have to explain what to look for.  I don't remember seeing anything.

The "VIN" (serial) number stampings are correct.  There is one located top front left of frame, and one top rear left of frame. (Left=Driver side in this case.)

Front stamping

 

Rear stamping

 

There are also a couple other interesting stampings. All around the rear of the motor.

Right side inner frame: upside down "-40" inside of a full circle.

 

Left side inner frame: on its side "-40" inside of a full circle.



Left outside frame: upside down "-110" inside mostly complete circle but intentionally not full circle.



As far as school $, between tuition/room/board they are $30,000/year.  I was lucky enough to have around $15,000/year in scholarships, but still not cheap.  They also have two week summer classes that people go to.

[59-in-pieces]

David,
Here is a pic of a 50+ year old stencil.
Here is a reproduction of the stencil during a gr8 restoration - sorry to say, not one of mine.
Note the location and the fact that it is applied upside down.
Have fun,
Steve B.

[RMR]

Wow.  Kudos on whoever did that restoration.  I looove the details.  Makes me salivate at how exact it could be made to the original.  This frame didnt have anything noticeable like that.  The original paint in your other picture was in insanely good condition.

I took care of the freeze plugs.  I removed one of them and it was stuck surprisingly well.  Also found out that they had used a little bit of sealant. They probably all would have held fine and not leaked, but I went ahead and replaced them all anyway.  The disc type plugs were nowhere near as daunting as they seemed.  A little aviation form-a-gasket around the edges and installed them.  This type you have to hammer in the middle to get the edges to expand

[RMR]

Here's a few updated pictures of progress.

The engine and transmission are now painted, frame is waiting to get suspension put together, new front hubs are assembled (disc brake conversion kit), starting to get engine components together, ordering new suspension bushings and rear ball joint.

Found out the rear ball joint is the 58-early 59 style, so likely a little more expensive.  All these parts are crazy in comparison to say, a Mustang.  But then again, they were never in the same market to begin with.

[RMR]

New question.  I sent out the driveshaft to be rebuilt a while back and it came back nice.  Since I have now set the transmission on the chassis, I looked at putting the driveshaft in.  BIG PROBLEM.  Trans output shaft has 16 splines.  Slip yoke on driveshaft is 32 spline.  After looking in the manual, I'm assuming the 16 spline is correct.  Of course I forgot to take a picture before sending out the driveshaft.  So I can't say for sure whether this is the yoke I sent it out with.  The car came in with the driveshaft in the chassis and the trans separate.  There's essentially two possibilities I see. 

1. The driveshaft company installed the wrong slip yoke.
2. Someone had changed the slip yoke at some point, presumably during a transmission swap. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[Caddyholic]

What disk brake conversion are you using? Does it use hub less rotors? If so what are they from?

[RMR]

It was just the standard conversion kit from OPGI:
https://www.opgi.com/cadillac/CDB5006/

Bolts directly to your stock spindles.  The standard kit works with 15"< wheels.  The big brake kit requires 17"<.  Thats why we went with standard.  Not entirely sure what the rotors are from.  The hub and rotor are separate pieces in this kit.  So far the parts seem well made.  I was especially impressed with the hub.  It's all pretty simple to put together too. 

[RMR]

In addition to the slip yoke issue, there are a couple other things I'm trying to figure out: 

Exhaust system thoughts and any experience with suppliers.  I assume it would be a good idea to install a heat riser. 

I hear there is supposed to be little triangle washers between the flex plate and flywheel in the trans, does anyone know why other than spacing? 

Needing to find out what all of the ports connect to on the motor.  A few pictures would help also.

Thanks

[RMR]

Hey folks!  I haven't posted in a while so I thought I'd give an update.  The Cadillac is getting dangerously close to being a complete rolling chassis.  New bushings all the way around, new steering components, everything should be back to brand new.

The new rear upper control yoke bushings from Caddy Daddy cost $180 for a set of 4.  They are expensive.  They also do not fit.  The bushing is .010" larger than the hole it's being pressed into.  Hopefully someday they will correct this, but until then, using small bolt, nut, and some washers you can chuck the bushing up in a drill and run it on a file to get it to the right diameter.



Here is after its been filed down to size.



This is how the car is currently sitting.  Coming along nicely.

[RMR]

I also rebuilt the distributor and we decided to go with a pertronix electronic ignition kit instead of the points/condenser.  (Customer preference)  Followed the steps outlined in the shop manual and everything was pretty straight forward.  The pertronix unit was also pretty simple to install and comes with directions.

A before shot.



Internals before shot.



Found an NOS vacuum advance for a decent price.  Original had a leak.


Beginning reassembly.  The red part takes the place of your points/condenser.  Another black ring attaches to your rotor to provide a signal.  To get the air gap right between the two, you install washers on the bottom end of the distibutor between the gear and housing.


I lightly blasted everything before painting some parts.  Anywhere something needs to move freely I did not paint.  Instead I rubbed those components with a light tool oil to prevent rust.


Completed distributor good as new. (Probably a little better...