1937 V12Can't start without starter fluid or raw gas down the air filter intake

[Stinson]

Okay, during warm times this is how I start the engine - and it is good to start anytime that day even at night. The next day it will not start without adding starting fluid of some type. Now, in the cold it won't start at all, at least today as I may have flooded it. I have even installed an by pass electric gas pump with an added non-flow back device around it and the manual fuel bowl is full even without using the pump - what the heck! Should I move the flow-back prevention device next to the manual fuel pump? Where is the gas going for I see no leaks or moisture? Thank you.
Ty Stinson

[Glen]

It sounds like your choke is not working.  You need that for the first start of the day more than the later starts in the day. 

[Len Sholes]

It sounds like your accelerator pump is not working. With a cold engine take the air cleaner off then look down into the carburetor and see if any gas is coming into the carb when you open the throttle. You should see gas been squirted out of the jet into the throttle body.

[Steve Passmore]

The car in question Len is a V12 with updraught 'Detroit Lubricators'   Not possible to look down the carbs on these.

[Stinson]

The car started fast with a squirt of starter fluid today. The fuel was way too rich on one carb and has been adjusted. Will not start cold. Updrafts are now Zeniths having replaced the Detroits.
Ty Stinson

[Steve Passmore]

Updrafts are now Zeniths having replaced the Detroits.
Ty Stinson

Yes, sorry Ty, I forgot that small detail, but the same applies one cannot look down the venturi to see if there's any fuel.

[Stinson]

Thant is true - but why won't it start without starter fluid? The fuel bowl looks full.
Ty Stinson

[Stinson]

How do you correctly set the chokes on these updraft carbs?
Ty Stinson

[harry s]

Ty, The original carbs on your car are described as having a semi automatic choke. Do the replacement ones have an electrical connection at the choke or are they manual? If they are totally manual then you should be able to determine the choke position on each carb and set by hand as previously described to see if that corrects the problem. The earlier V12s had totally manual chokes and could be adjusted with the actuating rods. If they have the electrical connection then you have to determine if they are working or not. Keep us posted and good luck.    Harry

[Stinson]

Thank you Scott, these carbs are manual only so as you suggest I will try to adjust the rods as that must be the problem.

By the way, I would like to participate in the Wash. D.C. Modified event in June . But I will need to pay my dues in order to register the car as being one of the 100. If so, I wan't to keep my CLC #22330 number - can you help with this?
Ty Stinson

[31caddy]

The old saw about " if it's ignition, it acts like fuel, and if it's fuel it acts like ignition" comes to mind. If the manual choke rods were fine before, they didn't "de adjust" themselves. Before possibly making another problem, get two helpers. Remove the air filters. One helper cranks it over. With the chokes in the off/open position, you and the second helper simply hold a rag over the carb throats while cranking. ( No starting fluid!) You are now mimicking full choke. See if this has any effect. Depending on results, you can uncover part of the throat. I've done this with my bare hand, but am recommending a clean rag on the chance that it pops back through the carb. A small block of wood, or piece of sheet metal would be even better.
Starting fluid is VERY volatile. I'm wondering if you have a very weak spark due to slow cranking or other issues that is requiring the use of the starting fluid.

[harry s]

Thank you Scott, these carbs are manual only so as you suggest I will try to adjust the rods as that must be the problem.

By the way, I would like to participate in the Wash. D.C. Modified event in June . But I will need to pay my dues in order to register the car as being one of the 100. If so, I wan't to keep my CLC #22330 number - can you help with this?
Ty Stinson

Ty, The event coming up this summer at Tyson's Corner is the CLC Grand National.
Here is a link to the website with all of the information:
http://www.vfrclc.org/2017gn.html
Hope you can make it,      Harry

[Stinson]

Hello Roland, thank you. These updraft carbs are mounted well below the air filters and the intake manifolds so I don't think your approach will work in this arrangement. But, you have given me the idea to loosen the carbs enough to see when they are open or closed and then make the rod connection adjustments. This starting issue has been a problem for years, following the complete engine rebuild by a professional. These new Zenith updrafts were installed then and I have always had a starting issue. Sent the carbs out for a recheck and they are fine. New points and condensers and coils. Engine runs great once started and can be started easily any time during the next 18 hours or so.
Thank you,
Ty Stinson