Replacing the ball joints - which manufacturer to choose?

[DeVille68]

Hi guys,

I want to replace my upper ball joints since the one on the driver side one has a boot that is damaged (it spills the grease all over my brake drum) and the passenger side has no grease nipple anymore. I guess it has not been greased for at least 6 years. I have attached a picture of the currently installed ball joint of the driver and passenger side.
It seems that the driver side was replaced some time ago - with a wrong one? And the passenger side seams to be original, at least to my eyes?


So, now I have the problem of choosing the proper new reproduction ball joints. I want the best quality parts I can find.
So far I found five manufacturers:

• Raybestos --> http://www.raybestoschassis.com/advanced-technology/
• MOOG --> http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/suspension/ball-joints
• Eglin --> http://www.elginind.com
• M-N --> http://www.mcquaynorris.com
• AC-Delco --> http://www.acdelco.com/parts/chassis/advantage-ball-joints/

All of them say that their product is the best and the industry's choice ..... of course...
USAPartsSupply sells the Eglin product, RockAuto sells the Moog, Raybestos and AC-Delco. Have not found a reseller of M-N yet. 


Which one do you prefer?
Any opinions? Any experiences?

My gut feeling tells me to go with MOOG or M-N, but I am not so sure...


From what I can read in the manual the original ball joint was not a replacement part, you had to buy the full upper A arm. Part Number: 3633510 (RH) and  3633509 (LH) including ball stud assembly, shaft, bushings, bumper, nut and ground strap.

How am I supposed to replace these ball joints? The service manual tells me: "The upper spherical joint is pressed into the upper suspension arm and tack-welded to the arm at two points."
I guess I need to remove the full A arm and somehow remove the welds and remove the old one.

Any opinions and comments are highly appreciated.

Best regards,
Nicolas

[DeVille68]

Here is a page from the service manual for 68 showing the suspension system

[Scot Minesinger]

To me the main thing is that it is the correct part.  I purchased the USA Parts brand and went in perfectly in my 1970 Cadillac, which has a similar suspension.  If you have to remove the spring to do this work, might as well replace all ball joints and control arm bushings too.  Much easier to do all at once.  Plus you get a discount on the parts if purchased as a kit from USA Parts.  This is the first time I did a job like this, so if you need advice, do not hesitate to ask further.  Best of luck, make sure your shop press is in good working order.

Attached is a picture of the parts with new ball joints, bushings and finished in powder coat (not knuckle, that was painted to prevent heat treat alteration) before being reinstalled.

[mgbeda]

I recently replaced the upper ball joints in my '76 DeVille, which is similar.  There were two (I think- slight chance it was three) spot welds attaching the ball joint to the a-arm.  They were pretty obvious once the area was cleaned up.  Use a grinder or cut off wheel to remove those.  Then you can press the ball joint out with a shop press.  Or what I did was to take them to a shop and pay to have them pressed out.  I also did the bushings at the same time, which I'd recommend since you have to take the A-arm out anyhow.  On my car then I had the A-arms sandblasted (another shop) and I painted them and then took them to another shop to have the new ball joints pressed in.  Which they did upside down, so then they went back for another round of pressing out and in.  Finally the new ball joints came with a round ring type nut that screws onto the bottom side to keep the ball joint from backing out.  Mine didn't have any wrenching flats but just had two holes where some sort of pin type wrench would go.  I couldn't find any such wrench big enough so I pounded them tight using an old (now broken) hole punch.

Along the way I learned a great, easy way to get the spindle / steering knuckle loose from the ball joints.  Jack the car up high and support it on jack stands.  Detach the shock from the bottom control arm.  Use your jack to support under the lower control arm.  Now loosen the large nut attaching the ball joint stud to the spindle just a few turns, but leave it on enough that it is still securely on its threads.  Now let the jack down, also just a bit.  And next hit the knuckle with a hammer.  For me one little tap and the ball joint stud popped out with a bang, but only a little bit because the nut was still there to hold things together.  Now raise the jack again to hold the control arm in place.  There are a few ways to restrain the spring.  Some people leave the shock in place, held at the top.  I tried that but it is difficult to get everything all apart later.  Some people bind the spring in place with chain.  I didn't try that.  I removed the shock completely and put three steel rods (leftover from a construction project) down the middle of the hole where the shock went.  This is to keep the soon-to-be-free spring from popping out sideways and killing you.  Now with your spring restrained and the weight of the car on the jack to keep the lower control arm in place, you can back off the nut the rest of the way.  Lastly release the jack and the whole thing falls apart.  You need to have the car up pretty high, because that spring compresses a long way.  On mine the lower control arm was almost at 90 degrees hanging down before the spring was really free.

Make note of exactly how the spring was clocked on the A-arms (I took lots of pictures).

On the upper ball joint stud there is an eccentric bushing used to set camber.  That will remain on the stud.  You need that.  It can be pulled off with a small gear / pulley puller.  The shop that pressed my ball joints out threw it away with the old joint, which was a problem.

Good luck, and above all be careful.  I didn't even come close to injuring myself, but there is a hellacious amount of energy in those front springs that you must respect.

-mB

[waterzap]

Have used Moog for all my cars.  Is it the best,  I don't know.  But I have never had to replace them again and never had any issues. Take that for what's it worth

[35-709]

All 5 of the parts you listed are excellent choices.

[DeVille68]

Hi guys,

Wow, thanks for your valuable information!
I should probably remove the A arm, renew the bushings and paint all the pieces. Should I also replace the lower ball joints? I assume that these are still original.

So we have now 1 Moog, 1 Eglin. Any more?
Mike, from which supplier did you buy yours?


P.S: Regarding boots: As one can see above, the boot of the original ball joint ( passenger side) is much smaller than the replacement part on the driver side.
Do the ball joints from the five suppliers above have the correct size boot?

[Julien Abrahams]

Very interested in this topic. The boot of my lower ball joint (driver's side) has a small rupture, and I wanted to just get new boots. But that seems to be impossible (they only supply the whole spherical joint, and no separte boots).

[Jon S]

Hi guys,

Wow, thanks for your valuable information!
I should probably remove the A arm, renew the bushings and paint all the pieces. Should I also replace the lower ball joints? I assume that these are still original.

So we have now 1 Moog, 1 Eglin. Any more?
Mike, from which supplier did you buy yours?

If you are going to all that work, surely replace the lower ball joints also. 

When did Cadillac change to pressed on ball joints?  My 1958's were riveted (3 per joint) and after you punch them out the kit included 3 bolts/nuts/lock washers to them in place.  Much easier, but then the A Frames were much larger.


P.S: Regarding boots: As one can see above, the boot of the original ball joint ( passenger side) is much smaller than the replacement part on the driver side.
Do the ball joints from the five suppliers above have the correct size boot?

[35-709]

Advance Auto Parts sells replacement boots in their HELP section, many parts stores sell the HELP line of odds and ends parts.  The blister pack package contains 1 each of 2 different sized boots so you might have to buy more than one to get enough of the right size if you need more than one.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

FWIW,
I ran my '66 for about 10 years with 3 out of the 4 boots torn. I lubed the front end every oil change and never had an issue with running the ball joints dry. When I replaced the front end bushings I changed the ball joints , but the old ones were still good. As Geoff says, most of the auto supply stores carry replacement boots, and it is a lot easier to change one of them rather than the ball joint itself.
Greg Surfas

[mgbeda]

I got my ball joints piecemeal from ebay.  I think they were either Moog or TRW, but I will have to check.

If I were you I'd do the lower ball joints too, and the lower bushing.  That's the stuff that you have to take the springs out to do, so might as well hit it all at once.  The lowers tend to wear more than the uppers anyhow.  Strut rods, sway bat, shocks, all that can be done without disconnecting the springs, so that can wait if you want.

-mB

[DeVille68]

Wow, I started this thread four years ago! 
And only now, I really replaced all ball joints. So I ended up buying the Moog Ball joints.
Moog K5073 Front lower
Moog K5205 Front left upper
Moog K5200 Front right upper

( I got mine from rareparts, but rockauto has em too)
Thanks again for all the tips, I basically followed your advice. Regarding boots: The new boots of these Moog balljoints seem to be much closer the the size of the originals and should not cause any issues like the one boot did that was installed as a replacement before.

Quality from looking at them is very good. They are tight, no damage, good boots. Everything is there. Dimensions seem to be accurate because I had no problem at all pressing those new ball joints into my original A-arms.

Check out the pictures below. I have put the description of the pictures into the names of them.
I will update this thread as soon as my Caddy is on the road again.


One question thought, that I hope you guys can answer, because I am in the middle of installation.
If you look at picture number (6) you see a little plastic piece around the stud of the ball joint. It came this way in the packaging.

What is this piece used for?
Somekind of protection while shipping the part or does it fullfill a function installed too?

I noticed that the upper portion of the boot would be somewhat loose without this plastic piece, so I put it in. You can see the end result in picture (7) and (8 ).

However, this plastic piece also limits the amount of travel the balljoint can do. And it may also soften or removed metal to metal contact, that is the stud cannot directly contact the housing of the ball joint because the plastic piece sits between.

--> Question: Should I leave this plastic piece the way it is now or should I remove it?

Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
Nicolas

[DeVille68]

I am a bit surprised that no one posted even a hint. Anyways, so I asked a few friends, Moog and Rare Parts and got a different answer from each of em! :-D

The two most frequently mentioned answers were:
(1) never seen, this. Throw it away
(2) It acts as a limit for the boot and for the camber eccentric.


So, now I went with answer (2), because it made the most sense to me.
So far no problem with installing the ball joints or the spindles and the camber eccentric. Torque limits and distances make sense too.

You can check out my future progress in my restoration blog: http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=130360.220