Is my flat head enging frozen?

[nasser]

Hi everybody:
  I squerted a mixture of keroceen and oil 8:2 through the spark plug holes and after two days I placed a 14" wrench on the cranck shaft bolt and tryed to turn it CW but that was not enough to turn it, the Q is: how much torque from a torque wrench do you put before you say that the engine is actually frozen? I was afraid to shear the bolt. I am going to do a complete rebuild of the engine, but I need to asses its condition and what needed more attention. Previous history of the condition is not available and no physical damage can be seen at all. BTW, the car is 1947 cad conv, if this matters.
  Any advice on going about the tear down and rebuild of this motor will be greatly appreciated. Happy motoring.
Dr. Nasser,

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Gday Doctor,

Well, there are a number of possibilities, but the most common one I can imagine is that there has been a coolant leak over time and the coolant has leaked into the combustion chamber on one or two cylinders, and the rings have rusted to the cylinder walls.

If you happen to have an endoscope handy, it would be easy to take a squiz into the cylinders, or, as you are going to rebuild the motor, simply remove the heads and have a big look.

Further, the bearings could be siezed onto the crankshaft.

But, as you dont indicate how long it has been since it ran, it is very hard to say.

One last thing you could do is get a socket and a BIGGER Breaker Bar and really heave on it.   I take it that there is a big bolt in the crankshaft snout.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[George]

Hi Doc
If you are going for a re-build. Dont mess about trying to turn the engine. Start stripping it down. With the sump off you can remove the crank bearings. Then you know if the crank will turn. If the crank has to be freed off you dont have the added friction of seized pistons.
With the crank released from the piston rods, the pistons will also move easier, ie if only one or two pistons are seized you can remove the good ones independently. With the heads off you can see if the rings are seized.  If you succeed in turning the engine in situ, you could cause irreparable damage to the block.
The more you can actually see the better.

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

George,

I forgot to mention that the headlights we use in the conversion of the cars with the rectangular headlights to be legal in Australia are are Chrysler Sigma, late 70s early 80s model.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[George]

Thanks Bruce.

[JIM CLC # 15000]

04-20-05
Dr N, I agree with what has been said.
Since you plan to do an over-haul, remove the heads and see if you need to run a "ridge-reamer" in the cylinder bores.
You will need to move some of the pistons into the cylinders in order to use the "ridge-reamer". Use a block of hard-wood and hammer to position the pistion in far enough to use the R-R.
You may have/want to as the pistons have to come out thru the top.
If there is/are some "frozen" pistons, Use a hard-wood piece as a dowell to drive out the pistons, while protecting the cylinder walls with a metal-sheild. Anything that will prevent the "rod " from damaging the cylinder wall.Dont force it-use a BIG hammer.
No doubt that you will have to install new pistons and rings to fit the new cylinder bores.

[nasser]

  Funny enough, it crossed my mind if the gear selector was on revers or not, so I went to the car (hoping) and looked and found that it was actually on revers. So I put the selector on nutral and tried to turn the crankshaft and guess what, it didnt budge too. I think Ill not force things and will go with your advice and take the heads and the crankshaft off (from the bottom) and mike every thing and do the usual things like hot tanking , magna fluxing, etc.
  In buying engine parts for this flat head, I get confused between the so many suppliers like Egge, Kanter, Bob Cooper, Ed Cholackean (the spilling might be wrong) and many more. Any body shopped arround for flat head engine parts before?
  Thanks to everyone, happy motoring.
Dr. Nasser

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

I have freed up many "frozen" flatheads. They are very forgiving. If you pull the plugs & they have no rust on the electrodes, there is probably no water present. The crank pulley bolt is the WORST place to try. Poor mechanical advantage. Always pry on the flywheel. If is breaks loose, then go back & forth until you can go all around. Good Luck & let us know.  Bob

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

One more thing. You might have a great motor & not even know it. Bob

[Bill Sullivan]

All the suppliers you mention I have used and received good service.  I think Coopers usually has the most reasonable prices.  There is also Terrill Machine in Texas that is cheap and responsive.

I usually shop amonst these suppliers, they are usually quite honest about what is available for these engines.

Bill.

[JIM CLC # 15000]

04-21-05
Dr. I forget all about it until I read Bobs post.
By all means, use a big common screw-driver as a lever and turn it over using the "fly-wheel" ring gear teeth and the engine block. One tooth at a time, if necessary, until you get one complete revolution, then, you should be able to turn it using the crank-shaft bolt.
Good Luck, Jim
P.S. Remove spark-plugs first.

[Rhino 21150]

Im not sure where your car is sitting, like the driveway or garage or back yard. But if you have some strong kids nearby just put the car in third gear and rock the whole car back and forth. Dont let it move more than a foot or so backwards. This will usually break them loose if they are going to. If it is frozen badly the clutch will slip and prevent any serious damage.
Take the plugs out unless the kids are as big as the one that put the air conditioner unit in my Grannys attic. He pulled the 600 pound unit up the folding stairs with one hand! Bought him a Pepsi, he was only fifteen!

[nasser]

Hi everyone:  
Bob, how do you rotate the cranckshaft by its pully? is there a special tool for that? The flywheel and screw driver idea is vey good if one is carefull not to snap a tooth. And as you mentioned I might have a good working motor on hand, may be wishfull thinking, may be not. Yes the plugs are not rusted on the electrodes nor on the threads, on the contrary, they were oilly. If the engine does rotate, do you think I hook up a battery and do a compression test? or just leave it there and start the tear down? Thanks to all contributers, happy motoring.
Dr. Nasser,

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Hello Dr., you dont use the pulley, you pry on the flywheel with a LARGE long screwdriver. You will not break a tooth. If it frees up, the you can turn it over by the starter with the plugs out. It should spin fast. Then reinsert the plugs & start it. You cant do a compression on an engine until its been run & warmed up. Run it several times to build up the compression. If you tear it down before running, you will never know its condition, oil pressure, smoke, etc.  Let us know. Bob