News:

The changes to make the forums only allow posting by CLC members have been completed. If you are a CLC member and are unable to post, please send the webmaster your CLC number, forum username and the email in your forum profile for reinstatement to full posting and messaging privileges.

Main Menu

To paint or not to paint?

Started by Jim Govoni, May 07, 2005, 11:28:02 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jim Govoni

Hello: I have a 53 Series 62. It is paint code 6. Sometime int the 70s the PO painted the car a 55 Cadillac color scheme. It is now beige with a salmon colored top. The original paint was not two tone. I will be painting the car next winter. So, should I go back to the rather dull Phoenix Beige Metallic, or pair it black? It had a brown Bedford cord interior. 1953 Trim 54 is lt. tan bedford cord with dk. plain broadcloth.  It will never be a show or concourse car but its more than a driver. I am torn, but I really like a black car. I am planning a 10K paint job. Any advice? Thoughts? Many thanks, Jim

JIM CLC # 15000

05-07-05
Jim, you have to keep in mind if perhaps some day you might put it up for sale. People are smart in todays world, they think that if its re-painted, why is it not the same color as it was when it left the factory. It will make a difference with some people, and it will always be in the back of your mind that the color is not what it should be.
If you DO go with Black, by all means change the data-plate to refect the correct paint code number. There are services that will make you a new data-plate.(see Himmings Motor News)
Good luck, Jim

wm Link

Since we are not talking a 53 Eldorado here...paint it the color you prefer. The guy that is going to give you flack for a color change on a driver sedan...most likly would be the one to offer you $6k for the car ONLY if it had a $10k paint job in the correct color. If you changed the color AND the data plate, of the $10k paint job...well then...he might go $6,500. Thats been my experience. Purists ane not the ones spending the BIG dollars on retro rods today. The car is going to look GREAT in black...forget about the data plate unless it bothers you.  

Jim Govoni

I feel the same. Thats sound advice. When I see another black 53 it just takes my breath away. Jim

Alfred Bradshaw

Painting a car your personal preference is a matter of taste.  Tampering with, or restamping your data plate to match your taste is a matter of fraud.

Jim Govoni

How is it fraud? All states?  Jim

Yann Saunders, CLC #12588

In the US Penal Code, this is called Tampering with or fabricating physical evidence

How is it fraud?  Well, what else would you call the act of replacing a manufacturers ID plate with another, containing different information ? This is a forgery. Its like taking a vehicle title (not as easy) and replacing the VIN and description with others.

Jim Govoni

In the US Penal Code, this is called Tampering with or fabricating physical evidence


There is no penal code. Its covered in the US under the Uniform Commercial Code. Nothing in that law exists for automobile regulations. They are governed by state law. No fraud is committed without intent to defraud. As long as you dont change the plate without changing the what it means, like hiding a VIN number there is no crime.

That said, the Maryland State Department of Motor Vehicles states: Hello James,

Thank you for your recent email inquiry.  The answer to your question is as follows.

It would be fine with MVA because we do not use the paint code and do not record the color.  You can check with our ASED office to find out the legality of it from other standpoints (if there are any).  410-768-7388.

We hope this information will assist you in completing your transaction at MVA. Inquiring minds want to know. Jim

Scott Perrin, CLC#17618

Just because something is legal doesnt make it ethical.  

Falsifying the manufacturers information, even without an intent to deceive, will eventually lead to a future owner believing that the car was built in a way other it actually was.  We dont own our cars forever, you know, and our heirs and others seldom know the full story behind such changes, even if well-intentioned.  

The ethical test is whether it has a reasonable potential to deceive in the future, which is certainly the case with changing a manufacturers label plate.

Scott Perrin

paul vw

Theft by deception is a crime in every state.  It does, as was stated, require an intent to decieve, but that can be proven circumstantially.  If you tamper with a data plate to make a change appear as an original option on the car, and the car is worth more if it has that feature as original, or has matching numbers, it seems to me it would be very hard to argue that there was no intent to deceive a subsequent buyer.  Why else would you change a plate number, other than to impart some information that was different than what was on the original plate (i.e, the truth)?  

Even short of criminal law, fraud is a common law tort, and a buyer could subsequently sue you in civil court for the difference in value between a car having that feature as original (i.e. a numbers matching car), and a car on which that feature was added. On some cars, and with some options, that could be a large dollar amount.