Considering the purchase of the first generation (smaller) Seville...

[David #19063]

Hey Greg,

I am glad the car is everything you desired and more.  Nice to have someone represent their car properly.

Put some pictures up on the Pictures Page.

David

[Rob Bruining CLC # 12428]

Congratulations! I have had my 77 Seville since 1983. Mine is triple silver. I have always loved the looks of the car and how it handles.
If you want to get rid of the high cold idle there is a fairly easy cure for that. I think for the longevity of the engine it is worth the effort.Most engine wear occurs during initial start up, and a high reving engine increases that wear. If you are interested in the procedure, let me know, and I will attempt to explain it to you.

[Greg McDonnell CLC #20841]

Rob,

Thanks for your comments!  Its great to know youve had the car for 23 years and still love it!  It is a beautifully executed downsize (imho) and Im thrilled to have found such a nice example.  I looked a long time and wondered if Id ever find the right one for me.  Just when I had about given up, this one appeared for sale on the internet!  

Yes, the high (cold) idle is bothersome.  Would very much like to learn how to correct that.  I will look forward to your explanation!  

Greg

[Rob Bruining 12428]

Here is how to lower that annoying high cold idle that plagues the Olds 350 fuel injected engines that were used in 70’s era Sevilles and Eldorados.
Start by removing the air cleaner assembly and accompanying metal spacer collar found between the throttle body and air cleaner. Next unscrew the threaded  air cleaner lid stud. You should  see the black electric “choke assembly” on the top back side of the throttle body. Pull off the electric connector. Next take your hand and push down on the assembly, then turn the assembly 90 degrees. Slowly let the assembly rise up. It should be free of the throttle body at this time.
The engine idle speed is controlled by means of a controlled “engine leak” The air bleed screw on the front of the throttle body sets the base idle speed. The electric choke assembly allows a regulated increased  â€œair leak” by means of  pushing down (restricting air leak) and  retracting (increasing air leak). A metal pin on the bottom of the electric choke assembly is in contact with the plunger that sits just below it. It’s this plunger’s position that we want to change by placing some cut pieces of shim stock in it’s top recessed area. I first used cut up pieces of a flat feeler gauge set. A machine shop friend later punched me out a round set of various thickness shim stock. You will want to experiment using combinations of the shim stock to achieve the desired reduced high idle. Go slowly starting with about  .010 and work up slowly to achieve the desired results. If you use too much shim stock the car will idle too slowly on cold start. Also the plunger will be pushed too far down when fully warmed up and the tension springs on the bottom of the plunger will get hung up  in the throttle body.  Assemble the parts in the reverse order.
Whenever I now cold start the car and hear the  lower high idle I just think how much wear I am saving on the engine.
Another thing you may want to consider  when starting the car after storage is to momentarily disconnecting the computer’s fuel circuit fuse. It is located on the left side of the under dash computer in a fused line running to it. Push in the fuse connector and turn. Take out the fuse or simply separate the connectors. Turn over the engine until the oil light goes out . Reassemble the fuse connector and start the engine. This will prevent a “dry start”. It also can be done when doing an oil change.
These are simple steps that  can in my opinion significantly extend engine life. Good luck and enjoy that Seville!    Rob Bruining

[david.randall]

This information straight from

http://www.cadillacseville.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=100&Itemid=17


Seville history    
THE CADILLAC SEVILLE (by John McEwen)


THE HISTORIC BACKGROUND...

The Cadillac Seville has undergone a considerable number of transformations since the name was first used back in 1956. In that year Cadillac decided to expand the body style choices offered by its top model, the Cadillac Eldorado - a convertible-only model since its introduction in 1953. Not all of those who could afford an Eldorado were necessarily keen on a convertible body. The result was a two-door hardtop coupe called the Eldorado Seville. At the same time, the convertible became the Eldorado Biarritz.

Of interest is that DeSoto also claimed the name 'Seville' for a new two door hardtop model in the lower-priced Firedome series. This became a companion car to the existing Sportsman line of hardtops. The DeSoto Firedome Seville did not return in '57.

These early Eldorados were never common automobiles. Priced thousands of dollars above the average car and even thousands above the average Cadillac, sales were small but profitable for GM. As an example, in 1956 the Eldorado Biarritz or Seville base price was $6501. A Cadillac Series 62 two door hardtop was $4146 and a '62' convertible was $4711. At the same time, a new '56 Chevrolet two door hardtop sold for as little as $2063 with the cheapest Chev selling for $1734.

Cadillac used the two names for its top model until 1961. Sales of the Eldorado models had never been large but by 1960 only 8865 Sevilles had been built - 3900 of them in 1956 alone. Eldorado Biarritz sales were also dropping with only 1285 cars built in 1960, the last year offering both models. In 1961, the Seville was dropped while the Eldorado remained an endangered species through 1966.

Part of the problem was that after 1958, the very distinctive and unique styling of the Eldorado body was lost. It looked like a more heavily chromed version of the regular DeVille models with Eldorado emblems. While it had more luxurious interior fittings, the distinctive look was gone and so went the sales. Buyers were happy to buy all of the special Eldo interior features as options on the DeVille, for less money than the whole package.

In 1965, the Eldorado became a sub-model of the Fleetwood series and was now known as the Fleetwood Eldorado, which further downgraded its 'special status'. Cadillac resolved the whole thing in 1967 with the introduction of the new front wheel drive "personal luxury" Eldorado as a coupe model only. Correctly, it should have been called a Seville.


THE NEED...

The Seville name remained on the shelf for the next 15 years until Cadillac, hurt by the success of Ford's Thunderbirds and sleek Continental Mk. III and Mk. IV coupled with the huge increases in size to all of its models - ran into the OPEC-engineered gasoline shortage. Cadillac had explored the idea of a smaller car back in 1970 when some Cadillac dealers expressed concern over the rapid increase in Mercedes sales. At that time nothing was done but the energy embargo was not kind to Cadillac or its public image. 500 cubic inch engines (8.2 litre) did not go hand in hand with a newly discovered need for conservation. However, Cadillac officials felt that simply down-sizing the Cadillac would never be acceptable to buyers and owners who viewed size as status.

Mercedes had doubled its sales between 1968 and 1969. The company was showing no sign of doing worse. The Americans who were buying Mercedes were doing so because they had travelled, were well-educated, often female and realized that a smaller, well-built luxury automobile, with superior economy, handling and reliability was the answer. Cadillac was not of interest to them. Cadillac dealers increased the call for a smaller car to sell. Some dealers even obtained Mercedes or BMW franchises. Cadillacs and expensive German cars were sharing the same showroom floor. The comparisons were easy to make and not good news for Cadillac. This was serious.

Knowing that something had to be done, a decision was made to build a smaller, intimate and very exclusive luxury car first, then deal with the general downsizing later - after the other GM models had introduced their versions. The new car would be an addition to the existing line, not a replacement. This was a wise decision as it would introduce the idea that smaller was better for the whole GM line which needed to downsize soon. In keeping with the '70s trend and the Mercedes successes, the car had four doors.

The new small car could not be sold as a "cheap" Cadillac. The Cadillac name would not be sold cheaply as Packard had done with the 120 series during the late '30s. GM was firm with this decision. In fact, the solution was to market it as the new top-of-the-line for the discerning wealthy buyer who was now buying or thinking of buying a Mercedes or BMW. All that was needed now was a car and a name for it.


THE DEVELOPMENT...

Many ideas for the name of the new car (whose code letter was 'K' - a now very ironic choice) were offered. Eventually the choices came down to three. Old time Cadillac dealers favoured the name La Salle as it hearkened back to the grand days before WW II when Cadillac had a "companion marque" by that name. The La Salle had been a particular favourite amongst those who wanted the luxury look at a lower price. Another popular choice was St. Moritz, with its hint of foreign luxury destinations.

The third and best choice, in the eyes of the committee was Seville. It was a tenuous connection but it was a Cadillac name associated with the best model. The LaSalle had been dropped in 1941 and it was felt that the average American couldn't properly pronounce St. Moritz or knew what it represented. Brand recognition is vital.

The decision to go ahead was made in 1973 and the launch date set for 1975, over the objections of many senior GM men who felt that this was too rushed. Indeed, the 16 month timeline would be a record by two full months for the development of an entirely new car.


THE ENGINEERING...

Different size/weight/power output configurations were explored, as well as various drivetrain/suspension options. GM cars from Australia and Germany were imported and examined as possibilities for a donor platform but all were dismissed as being impractical. Existing US GM medium platforms were too large. Cadillac would have to build the new car from scratch, while borrowing a few stampings from the existing Nova platform.

A decision made was to go with a traditional solid axle/leaf spring rear end, which abandoned Cadillac's long use of rear coil spring suspension. Thinking held that this could be engineered to be as good as then-current independent setups at far less cost. Front wheel drive was not a possibility without having to reduce the existing large Eldorado/Toronado engineering which was financially impossible, given the size of the expected market. The traditional Cadillac buyer was not so concerned with the chassis as he was with the ride and appearance. Thus the Seville was to be a very conservative sort of car underneath.

An appropriate engine for a smaller car meant that Cadillac would need something other than its current 500 c.i. behemoth. An Olds 350 was chosen as the basis of the new Seville power plant. The Olds engine was the acknowledged leader in GM's medium-sized engine stable. An innovation was the decision to equip the engine with fuel injection. This was not be just a simple mechanical setup, as used way back in '57 and continued by Corvette, but an entirely new arrangement called "Electronic Fuel Injection". Bosch had already introduced a form of this type of injection for Volkswagen back in 1966.

Working with Bendix, which had introduced the first form of EFI back in '58 on some Mopars (and which was subsequently sold to Bosch), Cadillac developed an EFI system using an analog computer called an Electronic Control Unit or ECU. A parallel development by Bosch was introduced on many important European cars including Mercedes, Porsche, Volvo, Citroën, Saab and Jaguar at about the same time. Thus Cadillac introduced to North America what was to become the common form of fuel supply we enjoy today and the nomenclature associated with it. The system was originally called "Manifold Injection" where a fuel rail distributed fuel to individual injectors. In the '80s, this was simplified to "Throttle Body Injection" for all of GM, which was a quick and dirty replacement for the carburetor.

Getting this new technology to the wheels was the task of GM's Turbo-Hydramatic three speed transmission which made its name as among the world's best. The smoothness, long-life and reliability of the transmission has become legendary.


THE RESULT...

All of this engineering resulted in a car which was a small masterpiece of design and appearance. It retained the Cadillac feel on the road but without the bulk. The handing and braking were exceptional, the quiet inside fully up to the best standards. It looked like a Cadillac because of its design cues but it had a sleekness and tidiness which was very European. As one Cadillac developer stated, "The car has to ooze opulence". And it did. Interiors were sumptuous combinations of leather and wood. There were no options other than choices of radio and sun roof. All of the modern luxury appointments were included. The price was a tidy $12,479 which made the Seville the most costly Cadillac, with the exception of the Series 75 Fleetwood limousines.

The Seville was introduced in May of 1975 as a 1976 model but even before this, it was introduced and test-driven by a large group of leading journalists representing some of the most influential automobile magazines. Their reaction was one of surprise and pleasure at the quality and handling of the new car, as well as its new 'International' size and appearance. No less an authority than Road & Track reviewed it - the first-ever Cadillac covered by the magazine. It was compared most favourably to its Mercedes target. In Britain, a journalist wondered if the Rolls-Royce was actually worth its £7,000 premium over the Seville, which was quieter, smoother and better-handling than the Silver Shadow.

Advance sales and deposits guaranteed an enthusiastic reception by buyers who had yet to actually see the car. Worldwide export sales for Seville broke records for Cadillac. The entire allotment of 100 cars for London's Cadillac dealer was sold before the cars were loaded onto the ship. Sales figures advanced for each subsequent year of production, easily surpassing the target Mercedes sales for all models, the majority of which were small diesels.


THE SUBSEQUENT YEARS...

Change was superficial to what had proved to be a very hot selling and successful new car. Not "messing with success" was the watchword and change was incremental and controlled. The first generation Seville stayed in production until 1980 when the famous fastback body version was introduced. Borrowing styling cues from the Rolls-Royce Hooper body, the new and larger Seville began a new direction for the exciting car from Cadillac. In the interest of corporate rationalization, the Seville lost its rear wheel drive and shared the front wheel drive platform of the Eldorado and the Buick Riviera. The first generation Seville was the only version to use rear wheel drive, which is staging a Chrysler-led comeback today. Ironically, Chrysler is now part of the Mercedes family.

In 2006, the Seville is still with us, although it is now disguised under a new all-letter designation as the 'STS', which originally stood for "Seville Touring Sedan". It has stood the test of time through its various design iterations, while its old stablemate, the Eldorado was quietly laid to rest in 2002 after 49 years of continuous production.


THE ELEGANTE...

In 1978, the Seville Elegante introduced a new level of finish and luxury. Available in one of two different paint finishes and characterized by special stainless and cast brushed-finish moldings with special emblems, the Elegante was a handsome variation on the successful Seville theme. These cars were finished with or without the usual vinyl roof and were better looking for the lack of it. Undershoring the special treatment was a set of four genuine wire wheels by Dunlop of England. Each of these long-laced beauties was capped with a Cadillac crest. The Elegante package included Sierra grain leather seating with what we now call Alcantara inserts, although that term was not yet in general use.

The interior is finished in perforated Antique Grey Sierra Grain leather with Alcantara accents. Door panels were also in perforated leather. Carpeting is in a special long cut pile, in matching gray.

The Elegante package added a base price of $2600 to the cost of a Seville but if ordered with the Astroroof (a combination of powered glass sun roof and upholstered shade) the cost rose to $3706 for a grand total of nearly $18,000 which made a Seville Elegante perhaps the most expensive American car available other than its Fleetwood Limousine companion. This price however was comparable to the six cylinder Mercedes 280SE and vastly below the heart-stopping cost of the various V8 Mercedes 450SE and SEL models. The Seville Elegante with Astroroof was more than $30,000 less than the approximately $50,000 asked for the Mercedes 450SEL 6.9.


THE ELEGANTE FEATURES...

The Seville was billed as "Among the most fully equipped cars in the world". Here's why:

• 350 c.i. V8 engine with Electronic Fuel Injection and Electronic Spark Selection
• High Energy ignition system
• Turbo Hydramatic transmission
• Variable Ratio power steering
• Four wheel power disk brakes
• Dunlop chrome plated long laced wire wheels with Cadillac logo centers
• Front and rear stabilizer bars
• Cruise Control
• Twilight Sentinel automatic delay lighting
• Automatic headlight dimming
• Automatic Climate Control
• Electronic Load Leveling Suspension
• Automatic parking brake release
• Tilt and Telescope Leather-wrapped steering wheel
• Dual remote rear view mirrors
• External illuminated thermometer in left hand rear view mirror
• Lighted vanity mirror sun visors
• Passenger side carpeted waste basket mounted in kick panel
• Digital clock
• Modern AM/FM Stereo Cassette player
• Automatic power antenna
• Fuel monitoring system
• Exterior lamp monitors
• Washer level monitor
• Power windows
• Power door locks
• 40/40 Antique Gray Sierra Grain leather 6 way power seats with power recline
• Fold down center armrest
• Central console with telephone pocket and other compartments
• Expandable pockets in doors and seat backs
• Power trunk release and power close
• Cornering Lamps
• Carpeted Cadillac logo floor mats
• Fully carpeted trunk and trunk lid underside
• Carpeted spare tire cover
• Cadillac logo rubber trunk mat

[Gene Moscicki]

Even though they are built on the Chevy Nova platform. They are wonderful cars, much heavier ans solid. The 75 and 6 cars have drum brakes at the rear 77, 8,9 are 4 wheel disc.
The rear pads are difficult to replace with the emergency brake system, it gets easier after you know what to expect. First time will have you  wondering how to make it work. Fuel injection is GREAT it, like anything is easier to understand once you get your hands dirty. I get 13 M.P.G average with my 79 in 79 GM lightened the car with an Aluminum intake manifold from the heavy cast iron H.P. ratings were changed also and electric power mirrors were new for 79 I have never experienced any hesitation with the car. I hear this is passably a weather induced problem? Seems cold climate related. I would CAUTION buying a Diesel I still have stains on my driveway from leaking oil after 25 years from that car, Fuel injector pumps, glow plugs two batterys and a starter and finally bad head gaskets from starting it on starter fluid, I cannot say anything good about a Die Sell the 350 Olds is no powerhouse, but it is smooth and for an ole guy (me) it is ok. Rear filler panels deteriate I don't know what climate they survive in, not a Seville only problem. I hear they are being re-produced in hard plastic/ fiberglass. Try it you will like it. They are still affordable.The wire wheels offered on the Elegante and others are troublesom Loose / brolen spokes these are made in England and do not stand up very well. After market wire wheels are much better The English wheels can be I.D. by the 6 sided center cap with the Cadillac Crest After market Appliance wheels are round center hub, Almoste forgot  English wheels = tubes in tires  Aftermarket = tubeless

[david.randall]

I concur that the '76 - '79 Sevilles are are great handers and I like to surprise smaller, modern cars on twisty roads The Olds 350 Rocket engine moves the car along just fine.

[76eldo]

Too bad you weren't in the market last year.

I had a beautiful 76 with a true 23,000 miles on it.

http://www.sheffieldgarage.com/seville/1976-seville.htm

I bought it from a wholesaler that called me because he knew I am into Cadillacs.  They all assumed it had 123,000 miles on it because the car needed a good cleaning, and the rear bumper fillers were shot.

The car looked like a low mileage original to me, and still smelled new inside.  A pile of receipts in the glovebox and the trunk showed the car to be 23,000 miles, with oil change and PA inspection receipts leaving a trail of the mileage.  I bought it on the spot.

The local Cadillac dealer maintained it since new, and one of their techs goes all the back to the 70's and knew the car and the deceased former owners.

After a nice bath, buff, and wax, and a new set of rear fillers, the car was just beautiful.  I bought a set of wire caps to add a little bling, and had one nice car.

The only thing I will say about these cars is that I find the front doors to be a little short, and you kind of have to fold your leg a bit getting in and out.

The do resemble the Nova, and probably have most of the same body shell, but the car is Cadillac all the way with regard to the mechanicals, interior, and trim.

I decided to sell it, and I believe it went for $8500.00 last year on ebay.

Brian

[Greg McDonnell]

I have now owned my '77 Seville for almost 3 years.  It is absolutely, without question, one of my favorite cars in my collection.  I've spent countless hours detailing it (including the engine compartment) and had the alc compressor rebuilt.  It now works like it should and the rear end of the car sits at its proper height.

By the way, the color combination is a knockout!  It's Desert Rose Firemist (offered in '77 only) with a Claret vinyl roof and Claret leather interior.  It even has the factory Astroroof and a (factory) 8-track player that still works perfectly! 

I've replaced the spark plug wires and plugs as well as the (original) catalytic converter.  To use a well worn expression, that car runs 'like a scalded dog'!  It is so quick, I have a hard time believing it has all the smog equipment on it.  I could easily get a ticket in it, not only for driving it too fast at times but perhaps for driving a little aggressively!  It is THAT much fun to drive! It only has 40,xxx on the odomoter and turns heads everywhere I take it.  I am one happy camper! 

Greg McDonnell
Mobile, Alabama   

[Walter Youshock]

Great rare color paint, but, that Claret interior faded to a weird purple--especially the sail panels.  I had a '77 SDV d'Elegance with Claret interior. 

Although considered a Nova-knockoff, the Seville was really a great car that was over-engineered.  The only thing I never really liked about them, outside of their size, was the power window switches on the door panel...

Also of note is that it was the last Cadillac to have rear leaf springs.  Must have worked to the fact that it is such a great road car--and the big tires.

[Rich S]

Greg, your car sounds gorgeous! Those colors are really classy and a true Cadillac-only combination! Best wishes with it and please post pictures of it sometime! 

[Greg McDonnell]

 

Thanks Rich for your comments!  I am a very proud owner, to be sure.  I liked these cars A LOT when they were new but I was not quite 22 when this car was built in February of '77 so it was way more than I could afford new.  I never got over wanting one though so I started looking.  I looked for quite some time before finding this gem.  You're right, the color combination is quite 'classy' and very typical of Cadillac's attention to detail at the time. The leather has not faded or turned any unusual shades as some have stated Claret can do over time.  I guess I'm lucky it hasn't-lol!  The vinyl top had faded slightly but after redying it with a custom matched dye, it now looks as it must have when it left the factory!  I will post pictures (not sure where to do that though), but might need some help or suggestions.  I've never attaced pics to a post on the CLC before.

Of course, the car is smaller than my other vintage Cadillacs but is very easy to get in and out of (I'm 6'1") and quite comfortable once I'm inside.  The padding in the seats is unbelievable-very supportive of my 190 lbs! I like the way the steering wheel feels in my hands and its proximity to where I am sitting.  I don't feel cramped in the least.  As I said, after changing plugs, wires and replacing the original catalytic converter, the engine runs like it's new-quite a bit of power in that 350!  The old cat. really choked the engine.  I don't see how the exhaust was able to get through those tiny slits in the converter.  The new one makes a LOT of difference in the engine's performance.  My Seville leaves a light or stop sign with lightning speed!  Without even trying, I've left the other cars way behind me in a matter of seconds!  It's very agile and is actually FUN to drive!  I love this car!

Best regards,

Greg 

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

The "Seville Story" that is quoted in one of the posts had at least two errors. It said that the interior was "rich leather and wood" when leather was actually an option and the "wood" was imitation. It also stated that there were only two options, sunroof and radios (I guess meaning upgraded ones); although the early Sevilles were billed as "The Car Complete" there were actually many options available on them. 

[Robert Diederich]

Hi Greg congratulations on your purchase of a Seville. I almost purchased one in Colorado about four years ago and have often wondered if I made a mistake by not buying it. But that is water over the dam as they say.
It was good to see you and Porter posting on the Forum as I haven't too many postings from you guys lately.
Have a GOOD SAFE, HAPPY NEW YEAR
Regards Bob Diederich CLC16618.

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

Greg,
Congratulations, you apparently got a great car.  Does your car hesitate when opening the throttle from idle?  I don't remember the couple I've driven doing that and it's hard for me to believe that every one of them did it and couldn't be fixed.  Also, one of the posters said to be wary of the "'70's velour" that came standard on those cars.  I have the '76 Seville brochure and instead of velour, the standard clloth was a very handsome, conservative material which I think they called "Mansion Knit"; it came it many different colors, was nothing like crushed velour and I would prefer it to leather.

[TJ Hopland]

I dont remember if we covered it earlier in this thread but make sure the orings on the fuel system have been replaced.  I know of many fires from fuel leaks.  Seems like I read that they are even still available from GM.   Parts are cheap and I dont believe labor is bad, better to do it and know its done rather than find out the hard way with the fire department and insurance adjuster.

[Greg McDonnell]

Greg,
Congratulations, you apparently got a great car.  Does your car hesitate when opening the throttle from idle?  I don't remember the couple I've driven doing that and it's hard for me to believe that every one of them did it and couldn't be fixed.  Also, one of the posters said to be wary of the "'70's velour" that came standard on those cars.  I have the '76 Seville brochure and instead of velour, the standard clloth was a very handsome, conservative material which I think they called "Mansion Knit"; it came it many different colors, was nothing like crushed velour and I would prefer it to leather.

Rusty,

No, it doesn't hesitate (now) but it did (a little) when I first bought it.  After replacing the spark plugs, spark plug wires, cleaning the choke assembly and having the fuel system professionally cleaned (and oh yeah, replacing the original catalytic converter), it runs like a well oiled machine!  When I first got the car it did have the infamous slight hesitation when pulling away from a stop sign or traffic light.  VERY ANNOYING!  But I've taken care of the problem and it is a pleasure to drive!  That new cat. conv. really allows the engine to breathe!  Love how fast the car is now!

I think I've seen the 'mansion knit' you mentioned.  It is indeed a good looking fabric.  I am very pleased though, with my car's leather interior.  Claret is a rich, dark burgundy (oxblood) shade and after cleaning and 'feeding' the leather, it has a suppleness and soft sheen that is beautiful!  I love how the interior smells (leather as opposed to fabric).

Greg McDonnell

[Sublime Elegante]

The Elegantes never came with a vinyl roof.

[bcroe]

The Elegantes never came with a vinyl roof. 

My 79 Eldo had the identical engine; with everything tuned up, no hesitation.  My problem
has been it so easily spins the front tires.  Put on a (legal) monolithic cat converter and at
least 2.5" exhaust.  I prefer the 75/76 with iron intake; the aluminum corrodes at the
coolant packages.  And I'll take the rear drums, had lots of issues with the 4 wheel disks. 

The Seville can be pepped up a lot by converting the TH400 to switch pitch, use a switch
pitch controller.  Better yet, a 403 engine bolts right in, if you retune the computer and
upgrade to dual exhausts.  19 mpg is possible.  This is a pretty good description of my Eldo. 

Bruce Roe  CLC # 14630