Warning to members about consigning your Cadillac to Collector vehicle auctions

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

This is what I meant by these auction houses having "no skin in the game".  No responsibility, no liability, means they collect and collect without having any concern for the goods they are handling and profiting from.

All business entities have "skin in the game" and disagreeable policies - however many or few - doesn't change the fact.

Personally I would not consign a vehicle to one of these places for any number of reasons but that's me.

[rwchatham CLC 21892]

The auction house has no skin in the game ? Do you realize what a huge undertaking an auction event is and the expenses involved ? A car that’s bid up to 3k of its reserve should of probably been let go , it’s a personal choice but with the return shipping and the hassle of trying to sell it outright after it’s been seen at an auction , I personally would have pulled the reserve and moved on .

[dochawk]

I've been driving at the mecum auction in Las Vegas for three years now.

The first two years were through the local Mustang club--they *contacted* us to do it.

At first I thought that that was a bit odd, but as I thought about it, it made sense:  where better than a car club to find folks used to being ultra careful with cars?

Anyway, the first year we called another club for more bodies and paid them most of the fee we got (a few bucks a car), but they were too much effort, refusing to drive anything but their preferred vehicle.

They provided that they fee could either be paid to us, or we could designate a charity.

We accepted enough to host our Christmas party, and sent the bulk to our go-to charity (St. Jude's Ranch for Children [not the same thing as the hospital]).

The next year, we brought in other folks as individuals.  They were tickled pink with our performance, and with a bill due of something in the range of $4,700, they gave us a bonus and rounded to $6k.

OK, when the revenue gets reported, it's "$6,000 . . . oh wait, $6,020 with Doc's tip."   

I was designated the old car expert (without prior warning), both as I love the prewar stuff, and moreso because I was able to start the '31 Packard the year before (thanks do driving Carl's '27 Cadillac).   So I frequently got pulled from wherever I was  to come drive something else (including a Cord that had to be towed, but they wanted me behind the wheel [*sniff* that would be *awesome* to have driven], and a '35 or so Pierce Arrow [a genuine work of art worthy of Cadillac!] from a collection that ended up getting pushed because they'd used too short a screw rebuilding the stater the day before!  I offered to pop-start the thing with a push, but they were trying until it was only 3 cars from the stage . . .)

Anyway, the $20 called when I was pulled from a built '64 corvette, as someone had bought a '30 Model A roadster but didn't know how to drive it, and it had to go down to his trailer.  So I did it, and when I finished he happily handed me a $20 . . . thus the screwball number.

Alas, we were one of something like two clubs in the whole country that actually ran things well and showed up with enough drivers, so last year the contracted with a company to run the driving.   We're still at the top of the list, but now it's $30/driver/day, so something more than half what we made for the charity before.

As it happened, I found myself driving a '93 Fleetwood from display to pre-staging.

And ended up buying it.

In hindsight, I paid a little bit too much.  I was calculating the 8.5% sales tax when I made my final bid (and would not have gone any higher), which isn't charged on private sales here, but didn't add the other 10%.

Oh, well; I love the car, and for the first time in decades, am driving a car I fit . . .

[cadillac ken]

All business entities have "skin in the game" and disagreeable policies - however many or few - doesn't change the fact.

Personally I would not consign a vehicle to one of these places for any number of reasons but that's me.

I have owned my own business for over 28 years now.  I own my own building, thousands of dollars in equipment, and pay a lot of overhead.  IMO, that's not "skin in the game".  That is what a business has to do to do business.

I can tell you that my reputation is far, far better than any auction house that peddles cars.  Why? Because my clients know that I stand behind what I do.  I take responsibility, and that, my friend is the "skin" you risk.  Having skin in the game and money in your game are far and away two separate things.  Making the sale and walking away with a paycheck and essentially saying "good luck, lose my number" is not my idea of having a notion of skin, your skin on the line if things go wrong.

But of course thousands of folks every year sell their cars at auction and are willing to accept such practices. However, we see that many are not aware of just how irresponsible these car dealers are.  I guess for some the convenience is worth it-- until of course something goes very wrong.

[wrench]

Just to make another point about insurance.

It is possible that your car insurance wouldn’t pay a claim for damage done at one of these auctions, or they could come back to you to return the proceeds from the claim if they go to sue somebody for your damages paid and they find out you signed a hold harmless agreement without their expressed permission.

It’s called subrogation. You can’t sign a hold harmless agreement without permission from the insurer. Well, you can, but you waive your right to an insurance claim.

Plus it’s a gray area because of the ownership change and the insurance coverage change halfway through the process

Basically, you are signing away the right of the insurer to go back after the auction house’s insurance after your insurer pays your claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subrogation

I’m not a lawyer or an insurance guy, I just have experience with people trying to get me to sign hold harmless agreements and having this explained to me by corporate lawyers.

I don’t know if there is some sort of specialized insurance product that covers you during this process, but it would be worth checking into it before engaging one of these auction houses. Especially with selling multiple vehicles and/or high value vehicles.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I have owned my own business for over 28 years now.  I own my own building, thousands of dollars in equipment, and pay a lot of overhead.  IMO, that's not "skin in the game".  That is what a business has to do to do business.

If business risk and capital investment risk don't qualify as "skin in the game" I don't know what else does.

[dochawk]

I am a lawyer, but I haven't looked at the policy.

I'd be stunned, though, to find that classic policies don't cover the sale at the end of ownership . . .

[then again, the things that have startled me over the years as a lawyer led to Hawkins' Second Law:  "There is no lower bound to human intelligence--no matter how stupid person you encounter, there's worse around the corner!"

[dochawk]

I'm the one that reviews those for our club (I'm a lawyer), but I'm less than convinced that they would be effective if needed.

I put *far* more faith in the insurance policies . . . (and got asked for advice in a recent incident with another club . . .)