90 CDV brake leaks w/TEVES abs

[TJ Hopland]

Anyone familiar with the TEVES brake/abs systems?  On the 90 CDV I just had a rear line rust out and it lost all its fluid.  Besides the usual barely any brakes there is also no power assist.   I assume the lack of assist has something to do with that maybe it uses the fluid to charge the boost circuit.    Before I found the leak I did add fluid and I can hear what I assume is a motor running on the assembly but it didn't seem to be doing much. 

Anyone know if I just repair the line and bleed it according to the wacky instructions if it will just come back and work?   I have the manual and its a pretty massive section with lots of information, too much to read it all but a quick skim I didn't see anything about running it out of fluid.    There are tons of special tools and warnings about dealing with extreme stored pressures so hopefully I won't need any of those or have to look at replacing the system.   

I remember when I did the front hoses that at least there they were using the ball flares.  Do you suppose that is what the rest of the car uses?    Looking at the damaged line it seems like it would be best if I can replace it up to the rear distribution block but I know I don't have that tool and am not sure I can easily buy the fittings or a pre made end.

For those that have never heard of the TEVES system is an 80's thing that Chrysler also used on a few models.   Its a all in one electric booster, master cylinder, and ABS.   Its got a ECU inside the car that is about 4x the size of the one that runs the engine which is about the size of a VHS tape.    I guess there are some people that repair them but its $1000's so if the thing is damaged I think its over for this car.

Open to hear any tips or thoughts.   Will likely be tomorrow's project after I get some fuel for my garage heaters.     

[Roger Zimmermann]

Unfortunately I cannot help in your case; I can just say that when I was at GM, we had a lot of issue with that marginal and complex system. Usually the accumulator went bad, the pressure switch too. Expensive to repair if you can find the parts.

[TJ Hopland]

I saw there was a special tool for the pressure switch.   I assume the accumulator is some sort of gas charged thing?  And the gas leaks out for one reason or another?   Hopefully not from running out of fluid.

I wish there was a way I could know if the system would come back without repairing the line but I don't really know if there is.   Where I have to make the repair is where they decided to put a bunch of other crap like the fuel filter and rear distribution block.   Its all tucked into a little cramped rusty nook. 

I did do more reading of the manual last night and am starting to have my doubts.   It says the only way to bleed the rear brakes is basically 2 man style with the key on.  Key on you normally hear the pump running and shut off then the pedal feels normal.   It says when doing the rear to turn the key on and wait for the pressure to build and lights to go off then to just have an assistant slightly press the pedal while you open the rear bleeders as needed till you get clear fluid.   Nothing about going down far or on and off.   

Since mine doesn't seem to be building any pressure at all or having more than a slight normal gravity sort of drip from the damaged area I wonder if something has already gone horribly wrong like the pump was damaged from running with no fluid and now it just can't build any pressure.

I didn't read every one of the 80 some pages because many seemed to be electronic related but I didn't see anything about bleeding the unit or pump itself or any troubleshooting about hard pedal.   I'm assuming if the accumulator is bad it would pretty much build pressure and satisfy itself instantly and then have no reserve at all maybe not even enough to give one normal stop.  I don't think that is whats happening at the moment because the pump does seem to be running but it sounds more like its just a motor spinning vs actually doing some work.  There doesn't seem to be any change in pitch like its trying to prime or working against building pressure. 

[TJ Hopland]

Looks like there are at least a couple people that will rebuild these units but its $1000 repair and return process.   I think this car may be done.   I don't want to spend that and find out that something was also damaged in the control unit which doesn't look like its something that people repair.

It kinda seems like with a bad line on the rear that it would just continuously pump fluid back there till it was out which means it was likely out for quite a long time.   Since its got some kind of fluid level sensor you would hope it would quit trying to pump if there was know fluid but who knows.   Maybe I will have to glance at the trouble code list and see if there is a low fluid code.   They show some sort of tool to plug in so I'm guessing I won't be able to read codes.

[TJ Hopland]

One of the tricks I read about was to put pressure on the reservoir with the key on to get it to prime.   Finally a use for the up to this point useless power bleeder tool I bought many years ago.    Topped off the fluid and about 10psi and key on after about 2 mins when I was about to give up the noise finally changed.   I went to check the pedal and see if the lights shut off and they did.  Air ride compressor kicked on about that time so I'm not sure that the pump stopped before I shut the key off but I still have my leak so I didn't want to keep running it and run out of fluid again. 

Now off to the parts store for some line and couplers and more fluid.    Also got to stop for some propane and kerosene to get some heat in the garage.   I think its colder in my garage than outside at the moment.   

[Roger Zimmermann]

If I'm understanding your messages correctly, you have a leak. You cannot expect to have a functioning system with that issue; you may ruin the motor/pump if you are testing too much.

[TJ Hopland]

Yes I do have a leak and its going to be quite a pain to repair due to its location and the layout.    I didn't want to invest the time if the unit was already damaged.   I wasn't worried about the couple further minutes of testing killing it because I'm sure it ran for a decent amount of time before I got involved and then I drove it home with minimal brakes before I was sure there was a leak.

This car actually still looks pretty good but the last couple years have been hard on it.   Its really strange underneath overall the body and structure just has minimal surface rust,  no sings of even seams puffing up but the brake and fuel lines are terrible.  Its also got things like an engine vibration I was never able to track down and a cracked exhaust manifold.  You then throw in the falling down headliner and just about everything with a fluid in it at least seeping its just not something I was going to spend at least $1000 on.    There are plenty of 86-95's around in decent shape that sell really cheap.   Not many coupes but even they do come up. 

Something else came up yesterday but I got some line and a gallon of brake fluid and the heaters running now so later today we should know how this all worked out.       

[TJ Hopland]

Things were looking hopeful and I was pretty proud of how well I was able to duplicate like 6 different bends in about 4' of line.    Gravity bled then tested to see if the booster part was working and the same line blew about 6" from where I spliced it.    Guessing I will need to be able to buy a line with the bubble flare on it or buy the tool to make them and also going to need to out do myself with the required bends for this section.    Also going to take a miracle or 3 for the fuel filter and lines to come apart so I can even get access to the brake block and then for that to come apart nicely without damaging more lines.

Rust is fun. 

[TJ Hopland]

This car may be headed to the junkyard sooner than later.   To get to the rear distribution block I had to remove the fuel filter which I thought was replaced just before I bought the car a few years ago.  Rusted solid and with basically the movement of getting the line wrenches on it started to leak fuel.  I was able to basically break the feed to the filter line with bare hands it was rusted so bad.

Even though I was thinking that may be the final straw I finished removing it to access the rear brake block and amazingly that line came of with minimal effort,  I guess the lower part of that line and the fuel lines and filters were acting as sacrificial anodes?

It looks like parts like fuel tank, sending unit,  and the rear lines are all available and I should be able to order a chunk of brake line with the correct flare so in theory it could be repaired but then which rusty line will go next?   Also discovered it need a rear hub and rear wheel cylinders would not be a bad idea.   Maybe $750 in parts and a couple days laying on the cold concrete and the next few days are gonna be cold plus running open flame heaters when working on a gas fuel system isn't good.   


The brake and fuel lines on this car were for sure designed to fit the budget and probably last as long as the warranty.  ZERO thought or effort into making them reasonable to service or maybe slightly corrosion resistant.

Its almost amazing that the overall body and structure of this car is darn near rust free.  Even things like the fuel tank and exhaust system are only showing some surface rust.   But the fuel and brake lines.....  could they find a material that would rust quicker?   

[V63]

The reality is that brake system unit is a deal breaker...been there done that with an 87 and 90 sixty specials 🤬🤦🏻‍♂️ 🤑

[TJ Hopland]

My unit seems to have survived the leaks just fine.   Today when I thought I had the lines fixed it pumped up in about the normal amount of time and seemed to be working properly till the line blew again. 

I really don't want to junk the car especially knowing how much and hard to find some parts are but I also don't want to screw around trying to sell it and risk someone that just doesn't understand its issues and getting the title transferred these days.   

I really don't see any easy or safe way to repair the fuel line and without fuel no point in fixing the brakes.   With both the brake and fuel systems open now they are just going to deteriorate quickly and require even more effort to bring it back so maybe its just best to let it go.  Maybe it will end up in a U pull place and someone will be excited to find it in the yard with a month old radiator.   

If it was summer I would maybe spend more time on it but dropping a full fuel tank is never fun but at least if I could have the garage doors open it would be reasonably safe.   All I have for heat in my garage is open flame stuff so not a good idea with gas and its not fun to work even with the heat so without its just not going to happen. 

[TJ Hopland]

The brake system which was why I thought the car may be done was working right to the bitter end.   I wasn't sure if there would be any brakes and it had to roll off my lift.  Tow truck driver said just go ahead and ram it into the truck if it had to.  I hit the brakes and full power normal feeling brakes even with a open line. 

Sadly its going straight to a scrap only joint so not going to do anyone any good other than me because it won't be a hazard to me blowing up while trying to fix it or have another line or the fuel line fail and be a hazard on the road. Just needed to get it gone because no room for an immobile car especially with more snow coming.  Got $150 just because it still had a cat.  Also had a full tank of premium but at 5*f today and no where to put it because the other cars in the current fleet are diesels just added that to the list of sad to see them go things. 

RIP Mr Deville.   1989-2021.   At least it got to be a daily driver its last few years.    It could have got scrapped if I hadn't bought it non running a few years ago and at that time it had been sitting for years.