Back to square one with my rebuilt A 6 Compresser 70 Cadillac

[Bill Balkie 24172]

Hello
     I have a 1970 Coupe  DeVille . Last summer I felt my Air Compresser did not cool very well and made a whining sound  that I knew was not right .  I have replace my POA  Valve , Evaporator, dryer. ETC .  Everything but the Condenser. I sent my original A 6 Compresser to Original Air in Tampa to-be rebuilt  ( R 12 )back in September of 2021  . Got it back in January and installed back in the car in February.  I did not hook power wire up until last week. I took my car to a well qualified technician To evacuate the R 12 system. And recharge the system with R 12 Freon . Picked the car up  and the air was blowing strong  not real cold and i could hear the whining starting again . I got caught up in some traffic and the car started to run a little rough . Turned the air off and car ran fine .  Took the car home and parked in the Garage after topping the tank off with Sunoco 93.  Got up this morning took the car out for a ride put the air back on Compresser was whining and air really not that cool so I'm right back where I was before I sent the compressor out to be rebuilt. I am not sure whether to send this compressor back to original air or could it be something else causing the problem. I have no problem with any other function of the system . Rotate the dial to 65 air blows out of the dash vents  . Rotate to 85 vents shut down and heat blows out of the floor vents . Not sure what to do at this point . Any help
Would be appreciate it.
       Bill

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Bill,
Proper start up of an A-6 is imperative to shaft seal longevity (or even any life at al).  This means ensuring the compressor has its full charge of oil and the balance of the (approximately) 11 ounces is properly distributed around the system.  Then with the compressor in it's installed orientation (belly down) rotate the clutch face several dozen times 30-50) to bring the oil out of the sump and into the shaft seal area.  When charging the system begin with a few ounces of liquid into the high side (system off of course) until you get 30-40 pounds on the low side. Then again rotate the compressor a dozen times.
Starting the compressor without oil on the seal will kill the seal almost immediately, and it seems that might be what happened.
The whining you hear was the compressor running with out oil, and if the charge has leaked out the seal, there is nothing in the system to circulate the oil.
Did you leak check the system before you evacuated it and before you completed the charge?
Greg Surfas

[Bill Balkie 24172]

Hello Greg , And thank you for your  quick
reply . This is probably where I went wrong .  I found a  guy that has a very good reputation with R 12 refrigerant and he is an excellent mechanic . I know he properly evacuated the system .  I can not be 100 % sure he did exactly what you suggested . It is probably my fault because I did not explain the start up procedure before he started .  Looks like I will have him properly evacuate the system and send it back to original Air . This Compresser is the original Compresser off of my car . I did not purchase a Compresser off the shelf . Looks like it will take several weeks to get it rebuilt again . This story gets worse . I had a donor Compresser as a spare the I used on my car ( so I could drive it ) while my original was being rebuilt .  I know longer have that as I sold that back to original air thinking I no longer need it . Looks like I will be looking for another used Compresser to use on my car while this one is being repaired again .  A very expensive lesson learned .
  Thank you so much for your comment ,
         Bill

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Hello Greg , And thank you for your  quick
reply . This is probably where I went wrong .  I found a  guy that has a very good reputation with R 12 refrigerant and he is an excellent mechanic . I know he properly evacuated the system .  I can not be 100 % sure he did exactly what you suggested . It is probably my fault because I did not explain the start up procedure before he started .  Looks like I will have him properly evacuate the system and send it back to original Air . This Compresser is the original Compresser off of my car . I did not purchase a Compresser off the shelf . Looks like it will take several weeks to get it rebuilt again . This story gets worse . I had a donor Compresser as a spare the I used on my car ( so I could drive it ) while my original was being rebuilt .  I know longer have that as I sold that back to original air thinking I no longer need it . Looks like I will be looking for another used Compresser to use on my car while this one is being repaired again .  A very expensive lesson learned .
  Thank you so much for your comment ,
         Bill

A shorter fan belt to wrap around the fan and power steering would be cheaper than a temporary compressor. Roll down the windows and drive faster if its hot... 4-80AC

[Bill Balkie 24172]

Laurie ,
  That is a great idea . You wouldn't know what size that belt is ?

         Bill

[Roger Zimmermann]

... Then with the compressor in it's installed orientation (belly down) rotate the clutch face several dozen times 30-50) to bring the oil out of the sump and into the shaft seal area.  When charging the system begin with a few ounces of liquid into the high side (system off of course) until you get 30-40 pounds on the low side. Then again rotate the compressor a dozen times.

Greg, I will not refute this method as you are well involved into the A/C system when I'm just an user. I'm just wondering how it was done at the factory? They certainly not have the time to follow this procedure.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Laurie ,
  That is a great idea . You wouldn't know what size that belt is ?

         Bill

Here you go, NAPA Premium XL 25-7470

[2manycars]

Bill,
Proper start up of an A-6 is imperative to shaft seal longevity (or even any life at al).  This means ensuring the compressor has its full charge of oil and the balance of the (approximately) 11 ounces is properly distributed around the system.  Then with the compressor in it's installed orientation (belly down) rotate the clutch face several dozen times 30-50) to bring the oil out of the sump and into the shaft seal area.  When charging the system begin with a few ounces of liquid into the high side (system off of course) until you get 30-40 pounds on the low side. Then again rotate the compressor a dozen times.
Starting the compressor without oil on the seal will kill the seal almost immediately, and it seems that might be what happened.
The whining you hear was the compressor running with out oil, and if the charge has leaked out the seal, there is nothing in the system to circulate the oil.
Did you leak check the system before you evacuated it and before you completed the charge?
Greg Surfas

Greg, Thank you so much for this. I pasted it into a word document so that I can pass it along to the mechanic who will be recharging my system. I have a 64 CdV, and had everything rebuilt by Original Air back in late 2019. I am in the late stages of reassembling my car. I just put the hard line and hoses for the A/C in last week. I believe Original Air does charge the compressor with the correct oil before they ship. My compressor has been sealed with a blockoff plate installed by Original Air, until a week ago. The belt is still off, because I am going to do the final adjustment of the control panel and transducer first. After that I will unplug the clutch and install the belt. I'm taking no chances letting that compressor be spun until its on the charge machine!

Bill, Good luck with your car! I'm sure the crew at OA will take care of you.

[Bill Balkie 24172]

Hello Laurie ,
    Thank you for the suggestion . Compresser out and new belt installed on the power steering pump .  Now to get the Compresser back to the Original Air Group .
  Thanks again for the good idea .

       Bill

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Bill,
Before you pull your compressor, leak check the system to be sure it is the compressor shaft seal. It is always possible the leak was elsewhere.
Roger,
I do not know exactly what they did at the factory, but I feel sure they had some procedure to pre-lube the shaft seal and the compressor internals. All they would have to do to get oil to the oil pump and in circulation would be to pressurize the high side of the compressor and rotate the shaft mechanically.
Greg Surfas

[V63]

If you remove your compressor for service it's important to note that the intake manifold bolts need to be inserted or else a HUGE vacuum leak will exist.

[Bill Balkie 24172]

Hello Greg ,
    I pulled the Compresser first thing this morning . I took Laurie's suggestion and ran a single belt to power the steering pump . I will be shipping it back to original Air group to check it out .  Made a special manifold to house the two Compresser fittings with a pair of O rings to keep the dirt out of the high and low pressure hoses . I hope I get the Compresser back fairly soon .
     Thanks for being so concerned Greg I really do appreciate it,
             Bill 

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Hello Laurie ,
    Thank you for the suggestion . Compresser out and new belt installed on the power steering pump .  Now to get the Compresser back to the Original Air Group .
  Thanks again for the good idea .

       Bill

[Bill Balkie 24172]

Hello V 16 ,
       Thank you very much for that heads up. Just checked all three holes 2 are blind and one goes thru .  Was planing on taking the car out today . Better to find out now and thanks again .
     
          Bill

[Scot Minesinger]

Bill,

Once you get it right, should last a while.  Restored mine back in 2005 and have had to do some work now.  The seal that keeps the air from dumping into engine bay was bad, and so had to fix that this weekend - lots of labor for a very inexpensive part.  I sealed it for good, and during warm or after warm up up air conditioned will discharge into passenger compartment always.  My servo is acting up too, will have to tend to that too.