1950s First run alignment 1958 eldo seville

[ToddHaugen]

I just got my Eldo back from where it was getting restored.  The mechanic could not finish for heal reasons.  He had completed the engine rebuild so I need to start it for the first time.  Does anyone know the degrees from top dead center?  Better yet, good instructions for a first time start of this model?  Its the original engine with 20k miles on it.  Thanks for the help!

[Dave Shepherd]

6 degrees advance at idle is a good staring point with premium fuel of course.

[Chopper1942]

This is a copy of the reply I made to a post several days ago.  He also was starting the engine for the first time after a rebuild.

When you first start the engine, if you haven't done this before, you probably should have someone to help.

1. Have the radiator, radiator hoses, trans cooler lines, fan and shroud installed.
2. Hook a piece of heater hose to the heater outlet on the engine and another piece to the engine's heater inlet.
   Make them long enough to hold above the top of the radiator.  Fill the radiator until it is full. Lower the hoses
   until coolant comes out of each one.  This will remove most of the air from the system. Connect the hoses
   together. Fill the radiator until it is above the core. You need to leave some room for expansion.
3. Install a mechanical oil pressure gauge.
4. Rotate the crank until the timing marks line up. If the engine and distributor were in time before, mark the dist
   to timing cover location and the rotor to dist location. This will aid in reinstalling the dist.
5. Use drill and a tool to turn the oil pump drive.  Run the drill for several minutes after you have a pressure
   reading on the oil gauge.  Reinstall the dist.  You will probably have to turn the oil pump drive to get the dist
   to fully seat.  Make sure your alignment marks line up.  The rotor should point to either #1 or #6 on the cap.
   If the dist was not correctly timed before, you will need to remove a valve cover to verify which cylinder has
   both valves closed and is on TDC compression.  Make the adjustments with the dist if necessary.
6. Turn the idle mixture screws to bottom and back out 2 1/2 turns and open the throttle and set on high step of
   the fast idle cam.
7. Install a ballast resistor between your add on ignition switch and the B+ of the ign coil.  Run a jumper wire
   from the small starter solenoid post to the B+ terminal of the ign coil.
8. If the engine has been setting for awhile, I usually pull the spark plugs and give each cyl a small shot of oil
   to lube the cyl walls and pistons during initial cranking.
9. Get a can of mass air flow cleaner.  You will use this instead of gas to initally fire the engine.  Don't pour
   gas down the carb to start it.
10. Hook up your timing light.  Make sure the battery is fully charged. Prop the choke wide open with a screwdriver
    handle.  Have some ATF handy to fill the trans.  Make sure the dist hold down is loose enough that you can turn
    the dist to set the timing.
11. Your now ready to start the engine.  Spray some MAF cleaner in the carb and crank the engine. Keep spraying
    small burst until it fires and runs on the gas from the pump.  If your timing is close it should start and run.
    If it backfires try retarding the dist a little.  If it trys to fire, try to advance the timing. Don't crank for
    more than 30 seconds at a time. Once you get it running watch the oil pressure and water temp.  Top off the
    radiator as it drops.  Leave the cap off so you can monitor the coolant level.  Let the engine run for about 30
    minutes at high idle.  It would be a good idea to set a cooling fan in front of the radiator to make sure you
    have good air flow across the radiator.  After the 30 minutes, bring to an idle and adjust your timing and card.
    Once everything is stabilized, start the engine every so often and run on high idle until a normal operating
    temperature.

Also, make sure the transmission is at least filled to the full mark before you attempt to start the engine. Once the  engine starts, check the transmission fluid and fill to the lower mark if your dipstick has one. If not fill until the fluid level is about 1" low. The fluid level should be between the two lines when the transmission is at normal operating temperature.

Good Luck.

[ToddHaugen]

Thank you for the detailed response, it will be helpful.  I was asking a more specific question.  In the owners manual it shows timer marks of 0, 5, and 10 with instructions for a 3 barrel carb to align with the 10 mark.  When I aligned my points I have a totally different set of marks.  each mark has dots with .5 through 5 dots making 10 marks.  See attached.  What is the appropriate alignment for a 58?

[Roger Zimmermann]

I have the impression that the dots were home made...Possibly not a Cadillac part.

[Cadillac Jack 82]

I've never seen dots on a GM product but perhaps I could be wrong?

[Cadman-iac]

  I would have to agree with Roger on that. The line markings look like they're factory, but the dots appear to be someone's attempt at making it easier to tell which line is which degree setting.

 Rick

[ToddHaugen]

OK, so how do I figure out TDC alignment?  I was watching a video where the pulled the plug and stuck bailing wire in to see how far it went if it did not go in then they said TDC.  Another pulled the plug and put a finger in the hole and listened for the "put" sound.  Others suggested pulling the valve cover which seems over kill.  Other thoughts?  I would have thought the balancer could only be installed aligned properly so I should just be able to align it at one and then look in the spark plug hole?

[Chopper1942]

Remove #1 spark plug and take a long thin screwdriver and insert it into the spark plug hole. Slowly rotate the engine by hand until the screwdriver comes out the farthest or until it just starts to drop again. You should be very close to TDC. Now check the marks on the balancer and see if lines up with O which should be the bottom mark.

I would be a little concerned about setting the timing very much advanced.  If I remember correctly those engines had 10.5:1 compression ratios and used 98 octane ethyl for fuel with lead in it.  Only thing that matches that today is racing fuel.  You definitely do not want to have detonation caused by our poorer fuel today and having the timing advanced to far for the available fuels.

I don't know about you, but my hearing today is not as good a knock sensor as it was 50 years ago. If your engine pings under light throttle and small load, you have problems that need addressed.  Most of the time detonation is not audible until damaage is done(piston or ring damage).