1959-1960 Transmission Spacer

[60eldo]

  Was doing some research today and I dont no how I came upon this topic of a small 1" or so round spacer with a small whole in the centre. This spacer goes into the engine and looks like the torque converter center nipple spins against it. No lubrication strange. Nothing behind the spacer, but 3" bowl.Anyone no why there is a hole in center of space. Anyway, if any of you no more about this please enlighten. I just separated a 1960 engine and trans here, let me no if u need pics. Some say that when they pulled theirs apart, it wasnt there

[Clewisiii]

I think the hole was just to let air escape when you load it in. But that is just an opinion

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Jon,

I believe the spacer is there to correctly maintain the position of the ring gear around the Fluid Drive in relation to the Starter Bendix.

This isn't a rotating piece, as the spigot of the Fluid Drive doesn't rotate at the crankshaft, so there is no lubrication required.

Don't forget that the Drive Plate that links the Crankshaft to the Transmission only has that job to do.   Unlike later models with Torque Converters and separate Flex Plates that have the Ring Gear attached to them.

Bruce.  

[Clewisiii]

I just like pictures. I don't know who did it but at one time someone cut some out of brass to replace the spacers people lost when their crank shaft went through the machine shop washer tank.

[60eldo]

 Yes thats the spacer. But correct me if Im wrong. Doesnt the flex plate hold the converter in place. No need for the spacer. Im totally new to this one. And Tassie I dont follow you hear please explain to me like im in grade 4 . I believe the spacer is there to correctly maintain the position of the ring gear around the Fluid Drive in relation to the Starter Bendix. Whats a ring gear,  fluid drive?? Starter bendex?

[Clewisiii]

The flex plate bolts right to the flywheel. I believe this acts more like a thrust washer. Just fills the gap to prevent to much in and out movement between the crank and the coupling. It only bolts along the outside and the flex plate is just that flexible. Once this is in place there is no relative movement between the two. I questioned it's purpose as well. But since they cut the crank different a couple of years later I guess they need this as a gap filler.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Okay Jon, here goes.

The "normal" automatic engine has a Flex Plate that replicates the flywheel in a Manual Transmission car which holds the Pressure Plate and the Clutch Plate spins when the Clutch Pedal is depressed, which releases the pressure from the Pressure Plate.   The Ring Gear is positioned on the outer circumference of the Flywheel.   The Bendix is the part of the Starter Motor which engages the Starter Motor to the Flywheel Ring Gear to turn the engine when starting.

The Flywheel is heavy and thick, whereas the Flex Plate is thin and "Flexible", but to keep it rigid, it is attached to the front of the Torque Converter by bolts to keep it in alignment.   The weight of the oil-filled Torque Converter acts like a flywheel so there is no need for it to be as thick and as heavy as the manual transmission flywheel.

The front Spigot of the Torque Converter is what maintains the Torque Converter to the crankshaft for alignment purposes, but it is the plate that is bolted to the crankshaft at the crankshaft end, and to the Torque Converter at the outer circumference.

Lastly, the Fluid Drive and Torque Converter are virtually the same thing, but different names are put to them by different companies.   Most Fluid Drives are bolted together, whereas Torque Converters are welded together.   Plus, Torque Converters are simply removeable from the transmission by pulling them straight off, whereas Fluid Drives have to be unbolted at the outer circumference to separate the front cover to enable the rest of it to be disassembled prior to removing from the transmission.

I am not sure at which point Cadillac upgraded to the removeable Torque Converter, but the TH400 Transmission has the Torque Converter.

Does that make any sense?

Bruce.
 

[Roger Zimmermann]

I remember I did once such a spacer with brass and sent it to somebody, but don't remember who is that person.
If I'm right, Grant Owen did also spacers for sale as this small part is often lost when the transmission is separated from the engine. There was a technical bulletin explaining why this part was needed.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I remember when I received the engine and transmission on a pallet, and it was delivered to my driveway.   I pulled the two apart to make moving easier, and when I found out that there was supposed to be a spacer, I went and looked on the ground of the driveway where I split them, and lo and behold, there it was.   Been laying there for months.

Bruce.

[59-in-pieces]

Jon,

The brass disc shown in the earlier post looks like a replacement disc that Grant Owen mad some years back - and has no more.

The disc's dimensions are as follows:
Diameter - 1.613"
Thickness - 0.182"
Center hole - 0.125" with chamfer (looks like a center drill for fast production)
Edges chamfered both sides - 0.075" across the flats


If the disc is missing, the car may noticeably vibrate or even knock.

I attached a diagram showing the disc location relative to the parts mentioned in the diagram and posts above.

Hope this helps.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[60eldo]

 Great info here guys thanks. Heres mine one side pretty clean, other side well you can see this is the side against the  torque conv. Should I flip it around when I install it to the nicer side. I do feel a sight dip in the side that was used.