1950s 1959 brakes sticking on.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

On a '59 I've owned for the last four years, the brakes always had a slight pull to the right when applied but it became worse last year so I stopped driving it. Over the winter, my mechanic decided to go through the entire system, replacing all four wheel cylinders, hoses and the master cylinder.

Since it was winter, I didn't take the car out again until this spring and the car stopped perfectly straight when braking. However, a new problem developed: The brakes are now sticking on when engine heat builds under the hood, becoming progressively worse the longer the car idles. The car doesn't even need to be driven for this to occur; just from idling. My mechanic finally returned this summer and said the problem is with the booster which was replaced with a rebuilt one. I took the car out for a good 20-mile country drive (in cooler weather) and everything seemed okay. 

Then this morning on a warm day, I pulled the car outside and let it idle as I had to rearrange some cars in the garage. When I got back in the car the brakes seemed to be sticking again. I moved the car back and forth a few times just to certain (flat pavement) but it became progressively worse to the point that a significant amount of accelerator pressure was needed to move the car in reverse- just as had been the case before the booster was installed. Once the car cools down, everything returns to normal. 

Thoughts?

[Big Fins]

My thoughts lead to the shoe return springs at the wheels. If not there, there are 3 flex hoses that could be hindering the return of the shoes. However, the heat problem has me wondering about the cups in the Master cylinder. Are they of the correct size for the bore and/or are they swelling due to incorrect brake fluid or a mixture thereof?

When the system was gone through, was silicone fluid used as a replacement and if so, was the entire system flushed properly with alcohol to remove any traces of petroleum based brake fluid? Lot's of unknowns here.

[gkhashem]

My take on a few possibilities.

I cannot see how the atmospheric heat matters, your experience may be just a coincidence.

The brake hoses while new may be collapsing inside not letting the brake fluid return to the master cylinder. (yes new hoses can do that)

The wheel cylinder one or more than one might be defective and not letting go.

I am not sure if a fluid leak can cause sticking in the drum or brake shoes.

Also just because a part is new does not mean it works correctly.

Also watch out to not lose your wheel covers excess heat from the brakes can cause some wheel covers to get loose and fall off.

Check each wheel for excess heat after a drive place your hand on the wheel to maybe isolate a wheel that may be the issue.

[Roger Zimmermann]

I would put the car on jacks so the wheels are not contacting the floor. Let idle the engine for about the same time and check which wheel will still turn or not.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Not sure the exact fluid he used but this is someone who's extremely well versed in cars of this era. Symptoms repeat themselves under the conditions described and return to normal after the car cools down without fail so coincidence seems very unlikely. 

[Big Fins]

The inside diaphragm of the booster is leather, or if I remember correctly, it was when OEM. There were also leather stem seals where the push rod goes from the booster into the M/C. There is a rubber bushing where the push rod connects to the M/C causing many to wonder why the M/C can't be removed when it comes time for replacement.

Your man may be well versed in brakes, but even the best can be fooled by something as simple as a seal or spring. Heat swells seals, so your issue may just lie in the MC/booster combination. There is no proportioning valve, just a junction/distribution block, so nothing there to hamper fluid return.

With the Chinesium parts circulating these days, George may be right about the new hoses, but that won't involve a heat issue when just sitting and not moving. You have some work to do that is going to take time. Like Roger said, put it up on stands and wait for it to get warm, then see which wheel or more is binding.

[dadscad]

I had a similar problem with my 63 after having the bendix master cylinder rebuilt by a "professional". As it turned out after studying the factory shop manual brake section and inspecting the assembly of the master cylinder, I discovered the rebuilder installed the residual pressure valve in the front circuit, backwards. This allowed the fluid to flow out of the master but it couldn't quickly return. It created locked front brakes after repeated applications and the heat caused from the shoes dragging. I removed the valve and reinstalled it correctly to solve the issue.

[gkhashem]

I assume your man bled the system of any air bubbles

[dn010]

Check out the shop manual's list of issues that could cause brakes slow or failing to release and check off the easy ones - anchor pins loose, air cleaner restricted, brake adjustment etc. I'd also try the brakes without having the vacuum to the power booster hooked up to see if that narrows anything down.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I assume your man bled the system of any air bubbles

Yes, with me doing the pumping. Each cylinder was bled three times. 

[dadscad]

While the brakes are locked up,have you tried loosening the brake line at the master cylinder to see if fluid is expelled and the brakes release?

[35-709]

I had the same problem.  The problem in my case was that I had adjusted the brake "pushrod" too long.  After driving a short distance the brakes would start to drag and get progressively worse until I stopped and let them cool off, I was then able to limp home. 
The red flag here to me is that even while the car is idling the situation would occur.  That would be caused by the brake fluid expanding from the engine heat.  The small clearance distance between the rod and the master when at rest is/should be called out, and is important. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

A friend had the same problem with a newly-fitted Booster and Master Cylinder in a similar era GM product.

They were trying to get the correct "free travel", but were actually extending the pushrod to such an extent that the releasing of the pedal didn't allow the refilling ports in the MC to open up to accept a fresh filling.   They had great trouble in bleeding the brakes because of this.

Bruce.

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

I'm with the three comments above about over adjustment of the pushrod. I have seen this so many times and for some strange reason every time I've suggested this is the problem I've been told by the victims that that isn't the problem. They then go down the various rabbit holes of time consuming work and further expense, finally finding out it was the push rod. It's a quick job to do. It might not be that but always try the simple things first.

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

Another thought....do 59s have manually adjusted brake shoes with feeler gauge slots in the drums? If so and the brake shoe adjustment wasn't done as per the manual you could have this problem.

[Big Fins]

Another thought....do 59s have manually adjusted brake shoes with feeler gauge slots in the drums? If so and the brake shoe adjustment wasn't done as per the manual you could have this problem.

Yes they do. You have to set the center top anchor first before performing the shoe adjustment.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. I'll point my mechanic in the direction of pushrod adjustment. 

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Sometimes those who are well versed in something tend to skip steps because they know better. So, be sure your guy follows every step.
Our pushrod was just a bit too long. After a drive the brakes would heat up and it got to where it would hardly move. I tried various things, but went back to basics and found the pushrod.
I like the idea above about putting it on jackstands and seeing which wheels turn and which ones don't.
Also, our brake return springs were weak over the years so if you need to go back into the drums, redo the springs.
You can also just crack the bleeders. If fluid oozes out, that isn't it. But if it shoots across the garage then that wheel has pressure. If you do that, then let in heat up again and try another wheel. If it happens there then it's in the master area. If it doesn't, it's in that wheel's area. Don't forget the rears will share the same rubber hose.
Goo's luck.

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

Yes they do. You have to set the center top anchor first before performing the shoe adjustment.

And adjust the shoes using a feeler gauge.