V16 Starting Problem (38-9019)

[Don Sabourin #20267]

I have a 38-9019 that seems to have a problem starting again after it has been driven.  I have checked the entire electrical system of the car and that is functioning well.  I have an electric fuel pump on the car, but that seems to not aid in restarting the car after it has sat for more than 3 minutes.  I am thinking that it might be a vapor lock issue, but with the electric fuel pump, I thought it would compensate for that issue.  Spraying the carbs with ether as well gets no response.  After the car sits for a hour, it starts like a champ again and runs strong like it should.  Additionally, this was not an issue during the cold season in Michigan.

Any suggestions of what to try next?

 

 

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Have you checked the electrical system to see if you have power to the coil(s), or if there is a spark at the points during that crucial time whilst it isnt starting?

It seems that fuel isnt a problem as you said that you have primed the carbies, so it can really be an intermittent electrical problem.

Or, is it actually being flooded, and will only start after if has had a chance to settle down?

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[JIM CLC # 15000]

04-30-05
Don, sounds like a coil problem to me.
However, if memory serves me correctly, the V16 has two coils.
If that be the case, it should attemp to start on one good coil.
But, I would still check the coils.
Good Luck, Jim

[Johan Boltendal 158]

Check the spark at starting after a minute.Also check the following, you may have a rich mixture due to too much fuel, perhaps your float level is to high, may by your needles do not sit properly or the electrical pump pressure it to high.Also the engine may run to hot or the carbs become to hot due to wich the fuel evapourates causing the rich mixture. With a well functioning original fuel supply system, there should be no need for this extra pump.
Good luck, Johan

[JIM CLC # 15000]

04-30-05
Don, second through after re-readn your post.
You state that you used ether starting fluid, which confirms that your engine is not getting a spark, because with ether an enging will start if it gets a spark.
Good Luck, go easy on the ether, it can blow a head off, Jim

[Mike #19861]

 Since the engine has two coils, it is unlikely that they have both failed at the same time, but it is posssible, so I would not discount that possibility. Also, check the positive side of the coils to make sure they are getting power. Use a test light to check the negative sides of the cols as well, it should flash on and off as the ponits open and close. Another possibility is shorted condensors.

 Flooding has also been brought up. If this is the case, remove some of the spark plugs and inspect them for wetness.The carbs may be leaking down.

 A word of caution here on the use of ether in gasoline engines. This is NOT RECOMMENDED. There is the potential for explosion causing severe engine damage and personal injury. Ether can accumulate in the cranckcase and be ignited causing an explosion. I have seen engines where people have attempted to start engines with ether and it has blown off the oil pan and rocker covers and set the engine compartment on fire. If you use ether do so with caution and use only small amounts of it.

  Mike

[Doug. Houston]

Well, here we go again.

Last year, I did an article for the CCCA  Michigan regions TORQUE magazine. In it, I gave a tip about making new cables for a classic car, and because I needed cables for my own 38-90 Cadilac, I showed those cables as examples. But in addition, I showed the installation on the spare starter that Ill be installing on the car. On that starter, I installed the grounding stud that Im always harping on.  One of our members here will be making me new stainless steel battery boxes for both the 38 and the 39 V16 cars of mine, so Ill have the proper battery installations on them.

One other possibility. The battery needs to be no less than the 4H group size in order to adequately pull over this 16 jug monstrosity. Often, if the starter is pulling too much current from the battery, the coils srent getting enough voltage to fire the engine. The situation is bad enough on V8 cars, but conditions on the big displacement mills are most critical.

[Wayne Womble]

My vote is for flooding also. Why not try this. Before shutting the engine down, turn the pumps off and let it run the carbs out of gas. See if that affects restart. If it does, that pretty much proves the flooding condition.

[Don Sabourin #20267]

Any thoughts to an anti-perculation problem with the carbs?

[Don Sabourin 20267]

If I let the engine run and warm up and then shut, this is when it will not restart now unless I hold my foot to the floor.  After that, it runs great!

[Johan Boltendal 158]

Like Wayne and myself already suggested, this is what flooding the engine is all about.

[Wayne Womble]

Yes, That is the typical symptom, having to hold your foot to the floor to clear the flood.

[Ken Andersen # 21420]

I remember this type of thing happening a lot to me way back in the late 70s when I owned an old Holden. After checking all possibilities, including the coil for spark, I just about gave up. Then after speaking to an old Holden mechanic, (82 year old) he advise that at cold start up, the coil works fine. But the longer you run the engine the hotter the coil becomes, until it reaches operating temperature.  It is when it reaches this operating temperature that my old Holden started to play up, and in fact just die. Wait about 20 - 30 minutes and it was as right as rain. THe problem is a break down in transmitters in the coil. If you can imagine a flasher cam. When you hit the turn lever, it send current to the indicators via the flasher cam. When the cam heats up, the flip wire breaks the circuit, until the flip wire cools enough to ruturn to its original position. Then the circuit starts all over again. This of course is down in micro seconds.  Apparently with the older style of coils, as they age, so does there ability to hold continuous current, especially at engine operating temperatures. I would check the coils individually, by replacing them one at a time and if this is not successfull then replace both of them.  From my understanding, just because these engines have two coils, then the suggestion that if one is faulty the other can take up the shortfall is not so. My understanding is that both coils are required in order to provide the necessary spark in order to fire these beasts. If one coil is failing, then there wont be enough spark to power the shortfall. For mine, start with the coils.

[Rhino 21150]

On a straight six I owned of a make I wont mention I removed the carb, cut a new gasket out of very thick paper from the parts store and reinstalled. Problem solved. Extra thick gasket (about 1/4) resisted heat transfer from the engine to the carb.