1931 Lasalle transmission oil

[George]

I am ready to fill the freshly rebuilt transmission on my 31 Lasalle...The factory shop manual makes reference to not using a sulphurized oil since it etches the bronze parts in the transmission...Any recommendation on what modern oil could be used to assure that there will be no problems?..Thank you for your help....George

[Paul Ayres #5640]

George - The danger from brasss etching with modern lubes is probably overstated.  You would have to get the lube very hot before any etching could take place.  Your main concern will be viscosity.  You will need at least 140 weight lube to get proper synchromesh action in your 31 trans.  Restoration Supply in Escondido, CA has a good selection of Lubriplate lubes that will not harm brass or bronze parts.  The 140 oil is Lubriplate SPO-277, and the 250 is Lubriplate SPO-288.  I suggest you obtain some of both, and start with a 50/50 mixture.  If the trans shifts too stiffly, drain 1/2 cup and add 1/2 cup kerosene, just as Cadillac advised for winter driving, or drain and try a mix with more of the 140.  If the synchros clash, move to a mix with more of the 250.  It took a couple tries to get our 31 Cad trans to behave, but it was worth the effort to get smooth shifting.  Paul Ayres

[Charles Kendall]

Who did you get to rebuild the transmission?  I recently picked up a 1926 Touring thats been sitting for about 30 years.  Probably wouldnt be a bad idea to get the trans freshened up.

[Tony clc#22054]

Do you have a phone number or address to Lubriplate Spo restoration supply in Escondido, CA?

[Paul Ayres #5640]

Restoration Supply is at 15182B Highland Valley Road, Escondido, CA  92025.  Tel (800) 306-7008 or (760) 741-4014.  Paul

[Tony clc#22054]

Thank You

[Wayne Womble 12210]

Paul,   What do you make of this?  This question was asked at the Franklin site and a response from a Lubriplate representitive was quoted. His contention is that EP lubricants should be used in automotive applications and that the SPO oils are not EP. He states that the EP lubes do have sulfur in them though, and that there could be some etching. Here is the question and the response from Lubriplate.

   Hi: I run antique cars which have various bronze parts in the transmissions and would like to know
if APG-140, 250, and SPO-277 and 288 are sufficently low enough in sulfur content to be safe to
use.

There appears to be much confusion amongst the general public as to whether modern oils have little
or no sulfur or not. Supplier web sites in general and your Data Book do not address this issue.

I am already using the APG-140.

Thanks, Gordon



Our APG Series does have sulfur in it. SPO oils do not contain any sulfur.
Normally, we do not recommend EP gear oils with sulfur on bronze and brass
gears. However, in your situation, I would recommend the continued use of
the APG-140. Being that it is an antique car, the benefits of the EP
additive outweigh the sulfur-bronze issue. You must use an EP gear oil for
automotive applications. Our SPO Series does not have any EP additives.

Sincerely,

Dan Moroses
Lubriplate Division
Fiske Brothers Refining Co.


It has always been interesting to me that modern transmissions use oil that is obvoiusly sulfur laden and they have bronze blocking rings etc. but nothing is said about that.

I tried the mineral based oil in my transmissions and I didnt like them much. There seems to be a great change in viscosity with heat, and after a long run, the shifts became erratic. I went back to modern lubes.

Wayne

Wayne

[Harry Scott]

Wayne, I had a similar discussion with a Valvoline engineer and was told basically the same thing. They said the sulphur content was minimal and would not have an effect unless there was extreme use, which would probably not be possible with an antique auto.

[Paul Ayres #5640]

Wayne - I am not a petroleum engineer, but I also have not heard of anyone losing a bronze trans or differential part in recent history due to erosion from sulfur in lubes.  Just to be on the safe side, though, I prefer to use non-sulfur bearing lubes, as long as they are available at a reasonable price.  Also, it is difficult to find an EP lube with high enough viscosity to make the synchros in our older transmissions work the way they should.  They were desigend for 250 weight lubes, and they do not work well on the thin stuff. Paul

[Wayne Womble 12210]

Been doing a little checking around. There are both regular and synthetic oils available that are rated EP, but will not damage the yellow metal parts. The highest viscosity in automotive products that I found was a 140 hot number. The GL-4 oils will not damage the brass parts, so you can safely use them in any application. There were some very thick oils available for industrial applications also with EP ratings upwards of 600. I dont see why they wouldnt work fine, but when you take a good look at the charts there is not much difference between a 250 weight oil and an 85W-140 at temperature.  As with motor oils the change in viscosity with temperature is greater, thus the hot viscosity is similar. GL-5 oils have extra sulfur EP additives and should be avoided. This site give a good explanation.  

http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.asp?articleid=496 TARGET=_blank>http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.asp?articleid=496