Blue smoke from the exhaust of a '62...

[Edward Kenny]

After changing my oil and putting in 1 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, 4 ounces of ZDDP and 4 quarts of 10W30 Quaker State Slick50 Oil for High Mileage Engines, my '62 is putting out a slight bit of blue smoke in the exhaust. This happens even after I've had the car on the highway for at least a half hour. Can anyone tell me if I'm in for some engine issues in the future?

Thanks in advance for the due diligence.

[homeonprunehill]

Edward, I, IMHO, think you will be needing at the very least  a"ring" job in the near future. Jim

[Otto Skorzeny]

In the future? You're having engine issues in the present.

Blue smoke is oil being burned in the cylinders. It can only enter the cylinder in about 3 ways.

1. past the piston rings
2. past the valve guides or valve seals
3. through a damaged head gasket

How many miles are on this engine?  Does it smoke more at start-up? Is the amount of smoke consistent throughout your drive or does it puff out during acceleration or shifting?

You're going to have to perform a wet and dry compression test on all cylinders to determine your course of action.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Just a thought.  Do you normally put a QUART of Marvel Mystery Oil in at an oil change?

Marvel contains some solvents that are very effective cleaning agents and a whole
quart is too much to use, especially in addition to the Slick 50. Some of this could be burning
off and making your exhaust smoke.

Have you had this "smoking" problem before -- without the additives?

Mike

[35-709]

Assuming this is an engine with quite a few miles on it I would use 10/40, or maybe even 20/50, and the ZDDP and skip the rest of it.  The Slick 50 is little more than "snake oil" (I don't care what it says on the bottle), and as Mike says a full quart of MMO is too much.  An engine that has had regular and frequent oil changes shouldn't need MMO and you have certainly used enough of it to clean that engine as much as it is going to get cleaned. 

[Misfit]

Edward. Drop all that stuff out of your engine post haste. Not good in any way. The replies you have read here are correct.

#1 Drop the oil mixture you have in there now. 10W-40 is fine for an engine in good shape under 100,000 miles. Over that, depending on the service intervals, 20W-50 would be preferred.

#2 Marvel Mystery Oil is an oil that in the past was used to 'uncoke', sticking rings, lifters, rockers etc... Please don't leave that in your engine longer than a drive to heat it up and get it out.

#3 Do you have an original motor with lots of miles? Put a good oil in like Valvoline 20W-50. If you live in a temperate climate, 10W-40 should suffice. I have '59 that is knocking on 100,000 miles that gets synthetic, plus the ZDDP. It drips a quart in 4000 miles, but doesn't burn it.
Stay away from paraffin bases oils from PA. Paraffin is what is used in candle wax. You should see an oil pan after using PA blended oils over a period of time. Big time sludge in the pan.

MisFit

[Dan LeBlanc]

I dumped in some MMO in my 61 last week (about 1/2 pint).  Went to pull it out of the garage on Friday and now I have a low pressure oil light on.  Changed the oil and still have the light.  I think this isn't a coincidence. 

I'm going to invest in a gauge to make sure it isn't the sending unit, but I have a suspicion I have a bigger problem.

[Otto Skorzeny]

Here's the problem with crap like that. It loosens up all sorts of gunk in the engine that's been building up for 50 years. As parts wear out, the spaces left by the metal are filled with sludge, dirt, etc.

In effect, the goop is taking the place of bearing material and wear surfaces, etc. When it's suddenly flushed out, the worn engine parts suddenly have a lot of slop and play. Oil slips into places it couldn't get before. This can lower oil pressure too as there is suddenly  a bunch of new places for the oil to go - like into the combustion chamber.

I'd suggest changing your oil and filter and using 20w -50. That might get your pressure back up. How many miles are on your engine?

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Reply to following quote from Misfit:
"Stay away from paraffin bases oils from PA. Paraffin is what is used in candle wax. You
should see an oil pan after using PA blended oils over a period of time. Big time sludge in the pan."

I have to disagree with you on your statement regarding Pennsylvania Grade Crude.  Have you ever
been to a PA refinery and seen how they process this?  I have.

First of all, PA crude coming out of the wellhead is a light "honey colored" liquid, very
unlike the typical Texas grade crude "black gold" you see in the movies.  The reason is
that it is very low on sulfur content and other impurities that Texas grade has.  The sulfur
content contributes to acid formation when combined with the water in the crankcase. 
Sure, they refine it and add additives to get around this issue -- but it's not in the same
class of oil.

The PA crude is "the best".  They remove the paraffin by running the crude through
huge "chiller units" that cool the liquid down and the paraffin is easily separated out. I've
been using Quaker State and other PA-grade oils for over 40+ years without any issues.

The "crud" in the bottom of the crankcase you speak of is the sludge that occurs from
condensation, engine combustion by-products, that happens over the years regardless of
which oil you use (brand, base stock, etc).  I'm speaking here about engines 40-50 years old
as are under discussion not newer vehicles.  You keep this at a minimum in any vehicle, old or
new, by changing your oil at regular intervals.

Mike

[Dan LeBlanc]

Here's the problem with crap like that. It loosens up all sorts of gunk in the engine that's been building up for 50 years. As parts wear out, the spaces left by the metal are filled with sludge, dirt, etc.

In effect, the goop is taking the place of bearing material and wear surfaces, etc. When it's suddenly flushed out, the worn engine parts suddenly have a lot of slop and play. Oil slips into places it couldn't get before. This can lower oil pressure too as there is suddenly  a bunch of new places for the oil to go - like into the combustion chamber.

I'd suggest changing your oil and filter and using 20w -50. That might get your pressure back up. How many miles are on your engine?

I pulled the pressure switch this morning and checked it out.  It's the switch that's bad (thankfully).  The engine is going to be treated to a rebuild at some point, I'm just not there yet.  I'm more concerned with it running to get it in and out of the garage at this point.

I know the odometer has rolled over at least once judging by the oil change stickers inside the door, but, it could also be on it's second go round.  Once I dissect it I'll know more.

[Otto Skorzeny]

That's good to hear. I'd still use a heavier oil like 15w-40 or 20w-50 in a high mileage engine like that.

[eldo59]

Is 40-70 too high for a 57k mile car?This is what I use on my 59 with no other additives,seems to be OK.

[Otto Skorzeny]

It seems a little heavy to me but if it's working fine for you, I'd leave well enough alone.

[35-709]

40-70?  That's a new one on me, special order?  Sounds much to heavy for a 57,000 mile engine.

[Dan LeBlanc]

That's almost gear oil.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I've never heard of 40-70.

[Ohio57-62Sedan]

I've never heard of 40-70.

Me either and I've been fixing car's for well over 15 year's now.. I lost count how many rebuild's our shop has done over the year's seance we have been in the business since the mid 60's... The Dealers depended on the independent for years even up into the mid 80's..Hence I love my Cadillac's, never never have I used anything other than 10W-30 or 10W-40 in any vintage motor... I prefer 10W-40 myself.... Quaker State Oil is the worst oil you can buy. Want to talk about sludge.... and don't get me started on oil filter's.... And by the way Mike Oil City is about an hour from me and they don't pull too much oil from them hill's anymore.. I drive through all the time on my way to Warren Pa.. As a matter of fact Eric Boron (Boron oil co.) is a close friend of mine.... most of the oil you see is being shipped in and stored there... I just had to throw my two cents in here, I don't care what you run in your car's.. I know what work's and don't work..

                                                         The Automotive Guru....

[Ohio57-62Sedan]

If your running an old Harley Pre 83 I recomend SAE 50 & SAE 60 .... That's some thick stuff but it cools the motor too...

                                                     Harley Guru too....

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Yes, there really is a product called 40-70 oil for cars.  It's designed for use in worn
engines.  The web site is an Australian company but it's available here too.

Here's a website with more information:  http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php?productName=40-70_Extra_Thick_Oil

Also, for Mr. Ohio 57-62 Sedan, please re-read my posting.  I mentioned "PA 'GRADE' crude". 
I'm fully aware that the Oil City area does not have much oil left anymore.  However, other states still have some reserves of PA Grade.  When Oil City was still running all out about 30+ years ago
we had, besides Quaker State, Kendall, Pennzoil, Wolf's-Head among others.  I used to
call on their refineries.  They were all top quality products.  Sadly, most of these are gone and
Pennzoil was bought out about 15 years ago my one of the Texas majors.

Did you know that back in the day, many farmers with small wells used that crude
right out of the ground for their Model T's, A's and tractors?  Try doing that with Texas
grade.

As far as why I think it's the best feedstock, here's one website explains that in
layman's terms and more-or-less back's up what I said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Grade_Crude_Oil

But hey, use whatever you wish in your cars and good luck.  All I'm trying to do is
keep the membership informed about the different options.

Mike

"The Chemical Guru"

[Misfit]

Mike,
While I respect whatever degree in Engineering, that you may hold, and the opinion of you amoungst this group, I must voice my opinion also. I always listen to others. That's how we learn.

Having turned wrenches since I was old enough to hold one, and having built many, many engines, I must say that unless you have been inside more than one that has used PA. extracted and refined products, ie: Pennzoil, Quaker State, Wolfes Head, or an other of countless brands that have been on the shelves since you and I were boys, you would change your opinion. And quick.

Remember back before there were oil filters? How it was recommended that you pull the pan and clean the residue at the bottom, every so often. Now picture one of those '40's engines, that has never had the pan pulled and cleaned. Bad huh? Now picture a somewhat modern day engine, say circa 1960-1970, that has used the oils you tout as being great. Pull the pan and you will run, not walk, but run to your nearest Valvoline retailer.

There again, we all have our own beliefs and opinions, but until you build engines day in and day out, you learn to ask questions of the ones you do build. I never built performance engines, just stock engines that you run in the Mom and Pop car.

Go to one of the Cadillac performance sites. The ones that have the guys that crank out 7 and 8 hundred horsepower out a 70 472 block and mention PA refined oils. They will laugh at you Sir. There again it's just an opinion. I don't post unless it is fact. There are a lot of people here that can put my knowledge of the cars themselves to shame. But I do know what makes them run correctly.

Regards, MisFit CLC # 22631