GM Bankrupt

[Rick Payton]

Well, I would like to say that GM, Chrysler and Ford all went to Congress asking for money on their own, I don't think anybody had a gun to their head. Ford did not to take any money and they are free to what they want with their company. If I asked my parents for a large sum of money, I would expect them to have a say in how I restructured my life so I could avoid bankruptcy. I guess I am just " Hopeful" that GM can pull out of this and becomes a company that makes cars that people line up to buy.

That being said, I am curious how many people on this forum have actually purchased a new Cadillac or GM in the last few years? And how many purchased a non-big 3 "foreign" car?

I am getting ready to purchase my next new Cadillac this will be my 3rd in 5 years.


Rick
2008 STS
1955 Coupe DeVille
1965 Eldorado

[Walter Youshock]

If what I just heard is true, the Dealership system is going to undergo some devastating changes--and soon.

Waiting for a Press Release or some confirmation...

[Otto Skorzeny]

Many dealers are threatening a lawsuit. I wish the secured creditors of Chrysler would sue as well.

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

I suppose we could go back to the end of the second world war, you'll see where I'm going with this in a minute. It seems to me that the only way to be a rich, powerful country is to be self sufficient and to produce products that can be sold to all your own citizens and the rest of the world. Britain [where I live] and America were just that, but after the war Germany and Japan were not allowed to re-arm - so they switched to manufacturing and became very powerful while we built up our armaments and let all our other industries collapse ! Germany started to lose it's grip when it re-unified and Japan is having its place taken by China now. Our industries [what little there is left] are hampered by so called green policies, so our governments can sit back and say they are being really good to the environment, when, in actual fact , all we have done is allow all our goods to be manufactured in countries where there are no green policies and no workers rights. Products made by slave labour children in countries where they can pollute at will are always going to be cheaper ! When we were self sufficient , people earned enough in their jobs to by the products made by other British workers - in the pursuit of ever cheaper goods we have put ourselves out of work. On the old chestnut of the UAW pensions - if the products were selling and the companies were making a decent profit the pensions wouldn't be an issue. I blame big business and international banks - by closing down factories in our home countries and moving production to Mexico or China they were putting their own customers out of work - a bit like cutting off a branch of a tree whilst sitting on it !!
Enough of my ranting !!
Phil   

[wrefakis]

in the last 10 years I have personally owned 2 new gm cars that I still own,99 Z28 at around 5k miles the roller bearings in the engine started coming apart,had to replace all rollers and rockers,3 power window motors(more than i put in the over 100 69 7 70's I have owned,including beat up high milers) the engine was a service bulletin issue.not specific to my car,now my 23k 06 buick has a major electrical problem,again a service bulletin issue,both times i had to spend big money to repair problems that the factory admitted were design inherent,all because I only bought american!

for my part the obama autoco (FORMERLY KNOWN AS GM) can drop dead!

PS.my 59 & 69 cadillac sat from november 4 till last week,both started at third turn of key and run like new! there once was a time

[Derek]

That being said, I am curious how many people on this forum have actually purchased a new Cadillac or GM in the last few years? And how many purchased a non-big 3 "foreign" car?

I am getting ready to purchase my next new Cadillac this will be my 3rd in 5 years.

Let's see, since August 2007, I've purchased:

2007 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4
2007 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab 4x4
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 4x2
2008 Dodge Caliber

In 2001, I bought a used 1996 Chevy Monte Carlo Z-34 from Shaull Cadillac/Olds before they went out of business.  Bought the ex-sister-in-law a 2000 Saturn SL-1 in 2008 from the Saturn dealer here in town when her 1999 SL-1 was totalled.  So I've bought GM products at GM dealerships, although I've yet to buy any NEW GM product.  Sadly, they just haven't offered anything that really excited me or filled a need in my life.

Looked at some new GM stuff in '07/'08 but none of those dealerships would work with me or even treat me well.  Most acted like their product sold itself and if I wanted something that wasn't there, tough. 

Dodge dealer offered to send a guy to Nebraska from PA to pick up a deeply-discounted brand new 2007 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 for me, at no extra charge to me, simply because it was the closest one available in black.  I declined and took a silver 4x2 instead locally.

In over 30+ cars I've owned in roughly 8 years, I've only bought ONE foreign car -- a 1990 Toyota Camry I bought for my ex-wife in 2003, for $950 from a small used car dealer I found through a classified ad. 

Worked as a service advisor for a 5-star Dodge dealership, one of the last few ORIGINAL Dodge dealerships, still owned by the family who bought the charter from Dodge in the early 1900s until this past year when they sold out.

[tozerco]

That being said, I am curious how many people on this forum have actually purchased a new Cadillac or GM in the last few years? And how many purchased a non-big 3 "foreign" car?

[/quote]


Ok, so I tried to stay out of this debate because it is largely a matter for American's to work through but I think you might be interested in a view "from the outside looking in". If you are not, feel free to ignore me....

Seen from these distant shores, and having travelled into the US eleven times now and hired cars (from 4 cylinder Pontiacs to Buicks to Chevy "people mover vans") on all these occasions, I always found your vehicles "peculiar" and uniquely American. I have to say that I would never have preferred to buy one of them had that been my only option.

I suspect that I am no different to most other people in the rest of the developed world. American car export figures more than adequately bear out the news that the rest of the world simply doesn't want your cars! So what! I hear you say, we'll keep them for ourselves! Well that would be OK if:

a)    Americans wanted them, and

b)    You shut your doors to foreign imports.

It is important, I think, to recognise that the sedan market in the US collapsed because neither of these two things happened - the product just didn't stand up to comparison with the imports on the one hand and access to the American market through various "free trade" agreements led to an import free-for-all on the other. Exactly the same thing has happened in my own country and the writing is on the wall in Australia for Ford and Mitsubishi (2 of 4 of the only manufacturers left here). Even GM Holden will only MAYBE survive (it hasn't made a profit for seven years) because it is the dormitory for GM's rear wheel drive aspirations world wide.

Need some evidence? Just look at where the strength of your market has been for the last years - SUV's and light trucks ....and these have been protected by 25% import duties.

Even they won't survive the "cut" in the medium/long term because:

i)    Gas ain't gonna get cheaper and, world wide, whether it makes any sense or not, these vehicles are being "greened" out of the market.

ii)   Notwithstanding the current level of import duties, the product just isn't as good as the imports.

Does anybody REALLY think Hummer has got a big future, wherever it is built and whoever owns it? Trust me, nowhere in the world except Montana and LA! So why worry if it goes off-shore?

Realistically, the "free trade" environment is not going to change anytime soon enough for the likes of GM to tough it out for a few more years until either political change or a marketing led recovery can turn public opinion around. Apart from some niche markets, the auto manufacturing industry as we know it in developed countries is doomed. The solution is not for existing auto manufacturers to simply relocate their manufacturing to developing countries just to turn out the same old garbage at a cheaper price. The only solution would seem to me to be that these industries need to chuck out the accountants and their "cost per unit" view of the world and give control back to the inventive, creative men who can design, develop and sell to the world at a premium, the bits the cheap labour countries can't produce.

There is one great truth in this that I hold dear:

You can't find creative greatness in people who are paid a pittance to generate that creative greatness. It takes very good men paid well and fostered in an environment of relative creative freedom.  No Mexican or Thai ever sold GM's hydramatic to Rolls Royce and they won't in the future.

So maybe it is time to put the past in the past, identify and then get behind the men and women with the creative greatness and support the hell out of them .......and keep the accountants and the CEO's with their share-price-increase performance based view of business in the toilet!

There! I feel better now.

Regards to all,



John Tozer
#7946

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I am in agreeance with you John.   Especially the Exporting bit.   

Even the Cadillacs that are sold in Europe are not the American made vehicle, but a re-badged Saab, and we all know how bad Saab's are.

The cars I saw in America in 2002 made me appreciate the Holden Commodore and the Ford Falcon that we were making in Australia.   The Holden Statesman was a better car than the Cadillac.

If only they could have been imported into USA, or manufactured in USA as Chevrolets and Fords, then GM and Ford wouldn't have been in such a bad position now.

Bruce.

[Jon Riley #13576]

I’m glad GM is being given a second chance.  If people who bought homes they could not afford are getting a second chance, if Banks who took on too much risk are being given a second chance, why not GM?

I’m also glad that, it appears, they are realistically taking care of their problems and being truthful about the future.  Something they have not been doing for the past 30 years. 

I don’t want to see GM disappear into a Chapter 7 Bankruptcy filing - liquidation.  That would just mean selling the Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, and GMC brands to a foreign company.

I can understand the concern about the government owning the company, but I think, in five years, we will look back on this a say this was the right move.  The alternative is no General Motors, and I don’t want that.

[Chris Conklin]

In reading some of these posts I'm reminded of the line about the space shuttle program - "Designed and engineered by the greatest minds the world has to offer, built by the lowest bidder".

Well, it's Friday morning where I am, so that makes me a little more optimistic than on most days because I can look forward to hanging out in the garage tinkering with the Eldorado over the weekend. In that spirit, and believing there isn't much optimism about the future of GM, any blue-sky opinions as to what is next? Anybody see any glimmers of hope in the wide swath of despair and desolation that is the automobile landscape in America? Perhaps there's a Tucker out there that actually may produce more than seven cars. I'm not convinced Tesla will be around to deliver on their sedan though. Darn! Pessimism is creeping back in!! 

[fcfanatic]

I think it would be best to let them go under. There comes a time when you got to say enough is enough. The company is failing and only dishing out more of the same. Ineveitable that we will be back to square one very soon.

I read a ford review on their performance stats and they seem slightly better than i expected

[Porter]

I think it would be best to let them go under. There comes a time when you got to say enough is enough. The company is failing and only dishing out more of the same. Ineveitable that we will be back to square one very soon.

I read a ford review on their performance stats and they seem slightly better than i expected

Yeah right, especially when they are making world class vehicles and the best pickup trucks and Vans Contractors need.

Brilliant ............

Porter

[Richard]

I am in agreeance with you John.   Especially the Exporting bit.   

Even the Cadillacs that are sold in Europe are not the American made vehicle, but a re-badged Saab, and we all know how bad Saab's are.

The cars I saw in America in 2002 made me appreciate the Holden Commodore and the Ford Falcon that we were making in Australia.   The Holden Statesman was a better car than the Cadillac.

If only they could have been imported into USA, or manufactured in USA as Chevrolets and Fords, then GM and Ford wouldn't have been in such a bad position now.

Bruce.




Ironically the very day GM filed for bankruptcy ( Tuesday here), a Holden dealer announces the launch of the new CTS Cadillac in New Zealand, all available in right hand drive, which I presume is factory, as it states that 88 cars are on the way, with warranty and full back up.

[Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397]

Let's see, since August 2007, I've purchased:

2007 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4
2007 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab 4x4
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 4x2
2008 Dodge Caliber

Are you still a member of the Car of the Month Club?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Ironically the very day GM filed for bankruptcy ( Tuesday here), a Holden dealer announces the launch of the new CTS Cadillac in New Zealand, all available in right hand drive, which I presume is factory, as it states that 88 cars are on the way, with warranty and full back up.

So, that's where the ones that were built and complianced for sale in Australia ended up?

The Dealers and Servicing stuff was all in place here till they pulled the plug.   Cost GM a bit to repay all the dealers the cost of setting it all up.

Bruce.

[EAM 17806]

I’m glad GM is being given a second chance.  If people who bought homes they could not afford are getting a second chance, if Banks who took on too much risk are being given a second chance, why not GM?

I’m also glad that, it appears, they are realistically taking care of their problems and being truthful about the future.  Something they have not been doing for the past 30 years. 

I don’t want to see GM disappear into a Chapter 7 Bankruptcy filing - liquidation.  That would just mean selling the Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, and GMC brands to a foreign company.

I can understand the concern about the government owning the company, but I think, in five years, we will look back on this a say this was the right move.  The alternative is no General Motors, and I don’t want that.


JON!  Most of us are with your thinking right on the money!  GM has got to carry on under the new corporation and I'm sure it will.  Good thinking on your part.  EAM

[Derek]

Are you still a member of the Car of the Month Club?

No, LOL.

The 2007 Jeep Liberty was for my (now ex) wife.  She got it in the divorce in January of this year.
The '07 Dakota, I sold to dad, he fell in love with it and his truck took a dump, so I transferred it to him.
The '07 Ram I ended up selling after the bottom fell out of the scrap market -- it was my junking truck.  Got it for a steal, a $27k stickered truck for $16k brand new.

The '08 Caliber I purchased with 4 miles on 12/21/07 I am still running and it has almost 37,000 miles on it now.

Derek

[Chris Conklin]

The 2007 Jeep Liberty was for my (now ex) wife.  She got it in the divorce in January of this year.

You must have had a pretty good attorney to get her to take that! 

[John Tozer #7946]

So, that's where the ones that were built and complianced for sale in Australia ended up?

[/quote]

Bruce,

Needless to say, they were all four door sedans. You can't get a sheeep into the back seat of a coupe!


John T