Ebay science fiction

[Bryan Thompson]

Hi all,

Anyone out there think these auction numbers are real, or some crazy guy in his basement in his boxers?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1st-59-Eldorado-Biarritz-Pilot-Car-Biarritz-Body-1-/260651930484?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3cb010d374

Bryan

[Otto Skorzeny]

Do a search on this forum and you'll find several threads over the years dealing with this car. The photo is always those same one taken 35 years ago.

A couple weeks ago I emailed the seller requesting more recent photos and got some song and dance that for security reasons he wasn't sending pictures but that I could come and look at it in person, etc. He says it's completely dismantled for restoration.

It's probably a big pile of crap now and may actually be car number one. Big deal.

Email him yourself with the "Ask Seller A question" button on the ebay site and see what he tells you.

Go to the site he mentions and see the data plate.

[TJ Hopland]

So a fairly complete but apart 59 Eldo is worth about 85K?   And what do you suppose the reserve is?

[Otto Skorzeny]

I think he was trying to get a whole lot more than that at one time. He's crazy.

Here's his site:

http://first1959cadillac.com/

Who's the "well known and respected Cadillac historian" he speaks of ? 

[R Schroeder]

More people bidding on it, than I thought ever would. Not enough info for me.

[veesixteen]

Fleetwood built a special (assumed) "Series 62" convertible with Eldorado Biarritz interior and bucket seats. I have a factory photo showing it in the background to a photo of the well-known Cadillac "Cyclone" show car. Could this be the car in question ... after some final modifications? Was it a proto or a special order for a Cadillac or GM executive?

Sorry for the small, low-res. photos.  As you can see, that car has the bucket seats and Eldorado "turbine-blade" wheel covers.  It does have the "Series 62" center body molding in lieu of the broad, curved "Eldorado" side trim.

http://cadillacdb.planeteldorado.com/DBas_drm/Dr59cycl.jpg
http://cadillacdb.planeteldorado.com/DBas_drm/59cycl09bia.jpg

BTW, the "Body Tag" shown on the vendor's web site sure looks authentic to me ... and look at the list of optional accessories ! I don't have my '59 paint chip chart or trim codes with me here, on vacation in Switzerland, but someone can probably identify them for us. I remember that "96" was definitely a special "Eldorado" color that year (NOT the red seen in the old photo of the car). Also the "B" following the trim code DOES identify the bucket-seat option.

It  certainly appears to be THE 1st  1959 Eldo Biarritz and, as such, deserves to be saved ...by someone with a lot of time and money!

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Guys,
I'm not a 59 expert, but I do lots of research on SO cars & always try to debunk these fantastic Luvdg type of claims.
#1 Bill Refakis should have ALL the info on this car. Why hasn't he chimed in?
#2 I've seen a close-up of the data plate. It has a strange look.
#3 It's body #1. So what. Car for car it's worth the same as any body #.
#4 It's NOT a pilot car. That's just hype. Many of the early cars show factory on the line sheet.
#5 I wouldn't spend a dime on this car without seeing everything. The owner looks pretty slippery to me.
Bob

[veesixteen]

I have asked for details and photos to be sent to my private eMail address; let's see if he follows up. I've asked also for the ID of the "well known and respected Cadillac historian" who looked at the car ... to compare notes with him!  Has anoyone ID'd the special, 1959-60 Eldorado (metallic) paint color #96? I do remember that #97 was "Champagne Gold", #98 "Siena Rose" and #99 "Heather".  There were also "Hampton Green" (possibly this car, as #96 was a special, "Elysian" green color for the 1957-58 Eldorado Brougham), "Argyle Blue" (#94, "Bahama Blue" on the Brougham) and "Argent" [silver] (#92 "Starlight" on the Brougham).

What about top color "7"?

I guess this car had ALL the available options: "E" (e-z-eye glass), "H" (heater), "C" (cruise control), "K" (A/C), "N" (electric vent panes - standard on the Eldorados), "M" (electric door locks - also standard on the Eldorados), "S" (power trunk release - standard on the Eldorados) and "X" (power windows - standard on all but some "Series 62" cars).

[Jon Riley #13576]

Paint 96 =  Hampton Green Poly

Top #7 = Slate Green

[Otto Skorzeny]

Good Luck with your requests to the seller, Yann. He wasn't exactly tripping over himself to give me any information when I asked for it. I suspect that the car is a pile of junk parts which is why he won't show any photos. I also agree with Bob that the #1 means nothing.

I have real doubts that the 10 bids on the car so far are legit.

[TJ Hopland]

So what does it cost to list something that say has a has a reserve of 100K?  And then if the 'bids' dont make the reserve are you out anything more?

[Tim Pawl CLC#4383]

Paint Code 96  is Hampton Green

[wrefakis]

at the risk of being scolded for using my first initial and last name as my user id,here is the history on this car

it is car # 1

it was not the show car or the turntable car,that was #3

that body tag is unique to this car only,and is correct

the photo of the car was taken after purchase around 2006,it was running in the yard at hershey 2005

it was not built for dupont or anyone else,it was a factory car not ordered for anyone and not a special order,spent most of its life in the maryland,washington dc area

it needs a total complete restoration,and may well require a body change,and yes,I have seen it in person,it was by my suggestion that the prior owner got a nose on it ,and made it yard driveable to take to hershey

for the record name is william a refakis # clc 3171

[veesixteen]

It's not the FIRST Cadillac but the first Eldorado Biarritz, and the first of THAT model with the buckets.
Note that 1959 cars with VINs #1 and 2 were the rare Eldorado Brougham models.

[veesixteen]

I did actually get a reply, Otto, although it came late. The seller says it's his "partner" who has been in touch with the "well known and respected Cadillac historian" mentioned in the separate Web site about this car (http://first1959cadillac.com). He names that historian as Bill Rasakis; I assume he means our CLC fellow member Bill Refakis who, we know, is currently working on a roster of surviving '59 Eldorado Biarritzes (BTW, Bill, he says he believes you are the second highest bidder on his auction; that leaves you only a couple of days to UP the current (alleged) high bid of $100,600!
 
He says: "In terms of more pictures, send me your name, address and phone number, and a way of confirming who you are (through a club or other reasonable fashion) or financial information ..."

He adds, "From my limited research, I do not think the car stayed with the factory long as it indicates "specially built for ....." . He says also "the engine [does he mean the ORIGINAL engine for this car?] is in storage with ["storage with" or "owned by"?] a third party, and once I ask him to bring it out he will expect me to take it which I do not want to do right now [why???]. So I do not have pictures of the engine seriel number (I do of the frame seriel stamping). Should you bid and win, your obligation to close on the sale will be contingent on my sending you pictures, or you in person confirming, the seriel number prior to taking delivery." 

Sounds to me that he will only let me see pics of the car if I actually commit to buying it first ?!?!

The seller also claims, "I am a licensed New York State attorney," and yet he can't spell "Serial" as in "Serial number"?

Caveat emptor!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The seller also claims, "I am a licensed New York State attorney," and yet he can't spell "Serial" as in "Serial number"?    Caveat emptor!   

Sounds like it is normal for some people not to spell correctly.

Bruce.

[veesixteen]

If the seller were not located in New York, I would say he could be "Marv", aka "luvdg", a seller of high-end classic cars out of Florida.  Perhaps the "partner" he mentions IS "luvdg"! Now that would be interesting. His faulty spelling certainly is reminiscent of Marv's: Doctors (i.e. “doctor’s”), dismanteled (i.e. “dismantled”), tellers check (i.e. “teller’s check”), Their is no deposit… (i.e. “there is no deposit…”), resonable (i.e. “reasonable”).  I think we shall hear a lot more about this car!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

......... His faulty spelling certainly is reminiscent of Marv's: Doctors (i.e. “doctor’s”), dismanteled (i.e. “dismantled”), tellers check (i.e. “teller’s check”), Their is no deposit… (i.e. “there is no deposit…”), resonable (i.e. “reasonable”).  I think we shall hear a lot more about this car!

Exactly.   Cheque is the financial piece of paper, not a Check.

Bruce.

[Otto Skorzeny]

So Marv might be the well known Cadillac historian? That's a good one.

[wrefakis]

Marv is not in this picture,the owners partner did call me yesterday,this car is well known to all 59 Biarritz collectors with more than 10 years on the job,it was for sale for most of the 90's always described as a basket case,I never checked the engine number, on you tube there is the 59 cad intro video showing this green car,bad quaility,but it appears to show all those august production cars.

I was told that the seller passed 175K !!