Hello everybody - 1936 cadillac convertible -

[Thomas McDonald]

Dear Godi

I have now received the new book Masinile Regelui (The King's Cars) about the cars of King Michael of Romania and as expected there is no reference to your car.  There is only one Cadillac photograph -- a splendid 1940 V-16 limousine.

However I have found out something about the history of your car.  It has featured in two Romanian films: Facerea lumii (1971) and Oglinda (1993).  You can look them up on the web sites Imcdb.org and Imdb.com.   I am almost certain that it is your car, particularly given the incorrect headlights.  In the earlier film (made in Communist times) it seems to have been painted red.  In the 1993 film it has its current colour.   You will note that someone who appears to be in the know has commented that the car has lost its original engine and is languishing in a derelict state in Germany.   I attach a photo of your car from a clip from the film Oglinda.

Tom

[godi drexler]

Tom!
Phantastic. Cant believe it, its defiantly my car! She was complete then, still wearing the hood and hood ornament -seems this was all stolen later! Got to go to those websites now!
Thank you so much!
Godi

[Steve Passmore]

Just watched the film right through, not that I understood a word of it. Plenty of US cars in there and sure enough that's Godis.
When its being driven down the road it looks as if the front left wheel has a mind of its own   nor surprising considering the condition of everything else.
The 38 Buick and 36 Chrysler is in much better shape.

[godi drexler]

Me again, no doubt about it in both cases its my car. I could cry because she looked so much better then... so I wasnt that wrong to believe that she came to germany in the early 1990ties. Too bad that the hood and other parts were possibly stolen in germany. Maybe the parts are still somewhere around? Who needs a 36 hood? Anyway I ve found one meanwhile. : )
I filled out the Allied Vaugn form to ask for the possible VIN.
Will let you know whats happening.

Thank you Tom.

Godi

[Thomas McDonald]

Godi

Regarding your point about the car being a gift from the Mayor of New York  -- that is almost certainly not true.  The Mayor of New York in 1936 was Fiorello LaGuardia, a famous reformer and principled anti-corruption politician.  There is no credible reason for him or the city of New York to make such a gift to the King of Romania, who was having a notorious and policitally damaging public affair with Elena Lupescu.  If there is a royal connection for this car, it is much more likely to have been a special order from the King, perhaps as a present for Mme Lupescu.  In any case I do not think that you will get any information from King Michael or Prince Radu on this. 

Tom

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Tom,
Maybe Prince Nicolas bought it after he got tired of his Duesenberg?
Bob

[tozerco]

Steve,

I know you like a good plot so, back on the missing chassis numbers, here I go again....

My 1937 75 series (and all those I have seen here in Oz) has no chassis number stamped in the chassis rails in the usual or any other location. My chassis has been completely "pulled" from the car and chemically stripped back to bright steel so there is NO chance I have missed it. Here is my theory and the reason why I won't give up on my other theory on Godi's car .......just yet!

All twenty of the 1937 75 series cars that came to Oz (commencing, as it happens, in late 1936) were actually Fleetwoods in CKD (as in complete, knocked down) form. As Mat Larson very kindly found out for me some few years ago, these CKD "kits" were boxed without engines (and a number of other bits that Holden figured they could do better/cheaper). The engines were sent separately.

As I understand the process for cars built in the US, the numbers were FINALLY allocated to a particular car at the moment that the engine, by this stage allocated with a full engine number, was mated with a chassis. The chassis number was then applied to match the engine number.

Hence the fact, in my view, that the Oz cars never had chassis numbers - the engines were added once the kit was assembled here by Holden and engine and chassis never got together at any time prior to that.

Mat's research threw up an even stranger bit of information - the original engines intended for six of the Oz cars (including mine) were never installed! Six (6) of them were dropped during loading on the dock in New York and damaged so much they were replaced after six new engines were subsequently (and separately) shipped here. If any engine number had EVER been applied to the chassis of these six cars, they would have been wrong anyway because Cadillac subsequently sent another six engines (I have the "Build Sheets" and the engine numbers at home somewhere - the Build Sheets are noted as being replacement engines).

Importantly, the six new engines had six new (as in different to the original six) engine numbers.

BTW, Mat has correctly pointed out that this meant that the total production of 1937 75 series cars has been overstated by six for all these years.


Never say Never!

[Steve Passmore]

That's really interesting John,  Does this apply do you know to all the Cadillacs that entered Aus or just the 75 series?
I can sort of understand it happening in your continent with a big Auto  industry like Holden, but it makes me wonder just where that would have taken place in Europe, what auto facility would have taken on such a task with Godis car?
You still have the issue that Godis car DOES have some numbers, why would they bother with any?
If he had none, I might be inclined to agree, and again would the history of this "Export" not come up in Mat Larsens research same as your cars?

[tozerco]

Steve,

All Cadillacs (60 and 75 series) for 1937 - Holden only "built" them in 1930 (1) and 1937 and all 75 series cars and all La Salles for 1937 (at least) came here CKD. The La Salles for sure and maybe the 60 series '37's came here without the turret/body rearward of the firewall but with front and rear fenders and hood included (Holden couldn't make a fender for another 11 years). Holden "shut" these CKD components to one of the bodies from their 'A', 'B', 'C' type bodies that they used for a whole range of brands from Vauxhalls to Chevs, Pontiacs, Buicks etc. etc.

I always insist when I see, for example, a 1938 Fisher La Salle up against a Holden version that the Holden has some visual problems of "line" along the waist beginning at the firewall and running rearward because something seems to have been "pinched" to fit there.

Not sure whether the smaller series cars came CKD with their engines separate or not but Mat proved for sure that the 20 75 series cars did.

I know it's a very long shot but.....

Mat spent ages researching the 1937 75 series Build Sheets to sort out the 20 that referred to Oz destination cars for the six 7513 cars (that's 6 out of some 3,500 + Build Sheets) that I was interested in so I suppose he or someone could repeat the exercise if they were of a mind to.

[Thomas McDonald]

Dear Godi

With reference to your post of 6 April about chassis numbers, I believe that your theory is supported by the statement by Carl Steig (Engine Serial Numbers 1902-1942) on page 44 of the 2013 International Membership Directory:  "...In 1936-'37, a letter ("A" in '36, and "B" in '37) replaces the second and third digits and immediately following zeros of the engine number (e.g., in 1937, eng #3130004 has frame #3B4."  So, as you surmise, this would indicated that your engine number should indeed be 3110001.

Tom

[godi drexler]

Hello Everybody! Just want to "update" you and inform all of you helpful people about the status quo of the research to my 1936 Convertible.

I got answer from the GM Archieves and they sent me a copy of the factory sales report. And BINGO its my car! Now its prooved that this car was the first car produced of the series 70 in 1936.
Frame number is 3A 1, Engine Number was 3A 6, and official VIN is 311 0001. Body Number is 1.
Next important information is that this car was intended to be sent to Europe to the 1936 Paris Auto Show! It was shipped via Antwerp/Belgium to Europe and equipped with a lot of extra parts that were only used on Export Models. Presented among a bunch of extraordinary cars like a Mercedes Kompressor Model, Bugatti, Maybach etc etc...
Now I know the color of wheels, body and tan leather interieur.
Fascinating!
The "Romanian King Theory" I guess can be left behind now, but maybe we can find out who bought this car at the Paris Show or however it came to romania.

On the other hand Tom Mcdonald researched in romania and found a person who knows a lot of the car and also has pictures of her taking part at vintage carshows in romania. Great informations there!

Now I am getting in trouble more and more because as you all know I wanted to save her by making a custom car out of it - BUT the more I know about her and the fact that its the FIRST car built and went to the Paris Car Show - I must confess this one has to be restored back to its original beauty - its nearly impossible to "cut down" this extraordinary one!

As I dont have the patience, time and money to restore it back to original I am thinking about selling it to someone who is willing to do so. Maybe I am not the right person to own this true piece of history. So - If someone might be out there, willing and able to save her, contact me.
Well... I never was so full of doubts about a car than with this one. : )


Again thanks to everybody who was - and still is - helping me to discover the cars history with all this enthusiasm and energy!
Kind Regards!
Godi

Ps: Attached the copy of the sales report from 1936 for you.

[Stinson]

Hello Godi,
Just had to send you this photo of what to do when you get tired of the restoration costs.
Ty Stinson
CLC22330

[godi drexler]

  Very good idea! 
Thats why they are so rare today!
Thanks for this document.

Godi

[william_b_noble]

working from somewhat faded memory, I think the serial number is stamped in two different places on the frame, one where it is visible with the body installed, and a second time underneath the body somewhere - as I said, this is a fading memory, I pulled the body off my series 60 a long time ago and sand blasted the frame, but at that time I didn't take many photos.

[Steve Passmore]

Somewhere back in Godis thread this has already been found Bill, The second number is on the frame visible through the battery opening under the seat.

[llopdoro]

Dear Godi,

What I have found in my old papers certainly can interest you. I was collecting all what I can find about US cars and got them in a record, it was very intensively before my marriage in 1979, and not so much during the 10 next years because my wife does not like them like me. So the doc I am annexing comes from a magazine where I cut what is interesting US cars: it is a meeting in Romania where you can see a Cadillac like yours, it has a plate on it...

Look, enjoy and comment,

Philippe L. Hulet de Limal
Florenville
Belgium

[Steve Passmore]

Not a Cadillac 'LIKE' Godies car Phillippe. but the very same car, academic now as the car has been long since sold.
Have you seen the age of this thread?

[llopdoro]

When I was gone to see the Keyaerts sisters in their castle of Planchoury for the inauguration of the Cadillac museum in honor of their father, I already had it. I think the ad was issued in the years near 1985.

[Ross Morgan #22943]

Steve / Bob - is there another chassis number stamped further along the frame as there are on other years such as 1939?  Ross.

[Steve Passmore]

Yes Ross, on the top of the chassis rail viewed through the battery box hole under the seat.