How to flush my 1952 blocks coolant passages?

[Walter Youshock]

Do you also have a dwell meter and tach?  You'll need to find out what rpm your engine is idling at.  If it's too high off the bat, then the mechanical advance will always be in operation.  You have to get the timing set right--usually somewhere around 450-500 in "Drive", choke fully open and make sure the high idle cam on the carb isn't stuck.  Timing needs to be set with the advance disconnected and the vacuum source plugged.  If you removed the line from the carb or intake, you need to tape off the carb or intake.  A vacuum leak will throw everything off.  Did you have a Petronix installed or are you still using points?  If the dwell is off, your timing will be affected.

Now you'll be getting into carb adjustments--idle and mixture...  FUN, FUN FUN--to get everything dialed in--timing, dwell, idle rpm and mixture. 

What's the condition of the carb?  Was it recently rebuilt?

[52Cadillac]

No dwell meter,or tach. 
Pertronix is installed with appropriate coil.
Unknown when carb was rebuilt. I would like to say not many miles on car since older Gent redid it all, according to his Son. Hehe. He's been right for the most part, but truly when is unk.
Mike

[R Schroeder]

If it is located there , then you should hear the vacuum noise when removed. Car also would run rougher when removed.
Your going to have to do all of the things Walter and I have been telling you, to get it correct.
Points,or what ever, timing, carb settings, and etc all have to be right on.

Manuals are the best place to learn, along with advice from here.
Roy

[52Cadillac]

Thanks. No noise, but can feel the suction on the line going to carb. No noticeable difference in running. Set timing to A mark.

[Walter Youshock]

You'll need to borrow or buy a dwell-tach and a vacuum gauge to really get things set up right.  I've had mine for at least 20 years and it's paid for itself over and over.

Your next best hope is a good OLD mechanic who isn't too arthritic to bend over the fenders! 

[R Schroeder]

New tools and old mechanic's.
What a pair.
Roy

[52Cadillac]

Jeez, must've gone to 5 places looking for tach meter. Picked up vac gauge and tach meter. More stuff to add to the garage. Wish I had a larger one.

[R Schroeder]

From what I looked up there is a C and an A on the timing marks.

A= for premium fuel.

C= for regular fuel.

[52Cadillac]

That's what I read in the shop manual. Tomorrow afternoon ill get back with her. Have test equipment. Will check rpm's first, and adjust if necessary. Then recheck timing is still on A mark.
Then check vac advance with gauge. Any particular readings I should be looking for?
Also paint on middle ports of intake manifold on each side of carb are completely burned off.
I did locate and free up the heat riser valve. The larger outside piece of it was in the down position. Anyone know if that's closed or open position of valve?
Thanks, Mike

[R Schroeder]

Most of the time if the weight is down, the valve is closed.

Remember the distributor has to be set up first., before you set the timing.
I'm not familiar with the one you were talking about. I thought it was electronic ignition type, that didnt need adjusting.

I'm not sure what Walter wanted to do with the vacuum gage. They are nice for setting up the air/fuel mixtures on the carb. Unless your talking about a vacuum pump.

As far as the vacuum goes with the timing, you just want to see if it advances once it is put back on. But, you said the was no change, so the vacuum advance must be shot.

Paint probably burned off the intake , because heat riser was shut.
A lot of things here pointing to the over heating problem.

[52Cadillac]

Yes Roy, I was thinking the same thing on my running hot problems.

Would the vac gauge determine if vac advance is working properly?

So I'm going to make sure carb is idling at correct rpm about 400rpm, in drive?
As far as I'm aware, there is no adjustment on the pertronix electronic ignition system. All preset. So there should be nothing to do with distributor. Other then disconnect vac advance, and plug line going to carb.
Then set timing to A line.
Thanks for all the help, Mike

Anyone know an old arthritic mechanic to work on a 52 in Hilton Head, Savannah area? I need my flywheel, and universals replaced. my garage space is limited on what I can attempt. Man my to do list is full of stuff to accomplish. Glad I'm down to one car.

[R Schroeder]

I vacuum pump, would be for checking the vacuum advance unit. You would pump it down in a vacuum and see if it holds.

Timing light will tell you if its working, because it would advance your timing.Again if your using premium gas it is the A mark. C mark for regular gas.

Vacuum gage can be used to set up the carb , along with the tach. I idle mine down and turn mixture screws in and out to get the highest reading on the tach, and vacuum gage.

Make sure that heat riser opens once its hot.

It is never ending, but fun to work on old cars.

I have a list of about 14 things to do on mine. Waiting for the snow to melt so I can bring it up to the house and work on it again. I have another garage down back where it is kept. When it snows it is stuck there until it melts. All snow should be gone by this weekend.

[Walter Youshock]

The vacuum gauge--When I check my '57, I plug the gauge into the manifold vacuum line to the vacuum wipers.  This is a pure manifold vacuum source.  You can't or shouldn't hook it to any port on the carb.  Using this vacuum source, it takes potentially leaky wiper motors out of the equation. 

With the vacuum gauge attached, you want to adjust each mixture screw for highest reading and smoothest needle--not bouncing around AND the idle air screw (you should have a Rochester carb, correct?) should be at the minimum to get your idle rpm.  The more you open up the air screw, the more you have to open the mixture screws to compensate for the additional air.    There should be initial screw settings in your shop manual.  If fiddling doesn't seem to be getting you anything but frustrated, shut off the car, gently turn the screws where they are just seated (DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN!) and then back them out to the initial settings in the manual--maybe 2 full turns on the air screw and 1.5 on the mixture screws.  Let yourself and the car cool off and try it again.  Eventually you'll find that spot where it sounds happy, the exhaust doesn't knock you out and it's not blowing black smoke.

As for the timing--today's gas isn't what it was 60 years ago so you may have to go back toward the "C" mark or your engine may ping.  Once you think it's all set, take the car for a drive and take your tools with you (and cell phone and AAA card).  You might find you have to tweak it just a little more after driving it.

Once you master this, you'll feel a lot better about your car and yourself! 

[52Cadillac]

Roger that Roy.
If I wire the heat riser open, would that be suitable? It doesn't seem to want to open after car is warmed up. The weight stays in closed position unless I manual open it. She is still overheating at idle, gauge pegs out. Could this possibly be the bad vac advance? Combined with heat riser. Still looking at few other things as well, But?
Will local parts store carry a vac advance for our cars?

Thanks Walter, yes it's a Roch. Carb. I haven't messed with the mixture screws yet.
I've only adjusted Rpm and timing. I need to settle this heat problem, now that's what I need cooling off from. Hehe. The timing was way advanced. Now on A. I do use premium gas. What was octane ratings back in the day? Manual doesnt say what is recommended. I go with highest for this ol Gal.
But if not high enough should I retard slightly back toward the C?

[Walter Youshock]

The heat riser issue has to be straightened out first.  That redirects hot exhaust back to the intake to help warm up the choke so, with it closed, the car isn't breathing right.  Wire it open for now.  Chances are the spring or something rotted away.

Octane was rated differently back in the day.  Premium then isn't what it is now, plus there was no ethanol.  When you bought gas, you got GAS!  Best thing right now is keep it on "A" and check for pinging under load or sluggishness.  You can always retard it back to "C".

[52Cadillac]

Gotcha,
Thanks, Mike

[R Schroeder]

Mike the purpose of the vacuum advance is to retard spark under load.
While at idle, and cruising,  the advance advances the timing. The engine runs cooler too, while advanced. It retards under load to prevent pinging, and burn the gas more completely.
Rich mixture burns faster under load, so you need to retard spark.  During idle,and cruise , your mixture is leaner, and burns slower. Hence you advance spark.
If your running around with one that doesn't work, it will cause it to run hotter.
Like Walter said. Get the riser to stay open. Big cause of extra heat in engine.

[52Cadillac]

Yes sireee. I Wired up heat riser as best I could. Took for short spin, and temp gauge pegged? What the hell. Ok beck to driveway, and I noticed with car shut off and key on with foot on and off brake would affect the temp gauge. I had just removed radio waiting for replacement. Hmmm ground wire from batt disconnected, so I ran to firewall. Bingo accurate gauge to work with.
Thru all that I had also taken out thermostat, and thought spring is supposed to be down not up. Tested thermo to be good. Reversed it. Set rpm to 425. And with vac line plugged I set timing to A line. Took, for spin and no problems thus far. Timing still no change when vac line unplugged. Parked in driveway idled for 5 min, and temp did go up just past middle mark. Of course the temp was only about 58 out. Add 40 degrees, and that's the real deal. Man O Man several problems all rolled into one.
Now for the advance, Napa had to call me back to tell me a no go. Any local stores have em? Who online will carry?
I'll soon attempt the carb adjustments, after I complete more critical items on my long list of stuff to do.
We plan on driving her to GN in Boston this year for a great time.
Thanks again, Mike

[Richardonly]

I am curious.

If you take an older car, say 1941-1958 as an example, that is running at an acceptable temperature AND retard or advance the spark, HOW much difference will you really see?

Anyone try this?

There is so much to consider with temperature of the car, such as outside temp, highway or city driving, going up a hill or down and on and on.

[Walter Youshock]

The spring on the thermostat goes down inside the water pump so the coolant passes over the spring allowing it to open.  What temperature is the thermostat--165 or 180?