2014 Cadillac CTS

[Louis Smith]

So what about Pontiac? ... oh wait ... that is dead ...   And Oldsmobile?...

My point exactly.  Ford covers all bases with just two brands, same with Chrysler.  The difference is that their brands are spread across all markets.  Naturally there are the imports which have dominated the American car market for many years.

[Big Apple Caddy]

So with Cadillac and Buick targeting the luxury car brands, that leaves Chevy to stand alone facing the "affordable" car market.  No wonder Ford is so successful and profitable.

I think Chevrolet's target has remained pretty much the same for a while i.e. Ford, Dodge/Ram, and mainstream imports like Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, etc.

[Big Apple Caddy]

So what about Pontiac? ... oh wait ... that is dead ...   And Oldsmobile?...  Dead too? OMG!

Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus helped destroy the one time extremely popular mid-range domestic brands like Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mercury.  Buick almost too.

[Big Apple Caddy]

My point exactly.  Ford covers all bases with just two brands, same with Chrysler.  The difference is that their brands are spread across all markets.  Naturally there are the imports which have dominated the American car market for many years.

I wouldn't necessarily say Ford "covers all the bases" with just two brands.  Ford doesn’t really have any "sports luxury" or "performance luxury" brand to go after the likes of BMW or Mercedes.  Lincoln, once back on its feet, seems to be more targeting Acura, Lexus and maybe Audi which are similar to Buick's targets.

How is Chrysler covering all bases with two brands?  They now actually have four brands, five if you count SRT.

[Louis Smith]

I think Chevrolet's target has remained pretty much the same for a while i.e. Ford, Dodge/Ram, and mainstream imports like Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, etc.

Sounds like David and Goliath with this time Goliath winning.

[Louis Smith]

Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus helped destroy the one time extremely popular mid-range domestic brands like Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mercury.  Buick almost too.

I think poor management by GM also contributed to the demise  of Oldsmobile and Pontiac.  They were the last ones to come to the table in realizing they didn't need as many brands.

[Makandriaco]

I think poor management by GM also contributed to the demise  of Oldsmobile and Pontiac.  They were the last ones to come to the table in realizing they didn't need as many brands.

I can't help to wonder, with the new "retro" mussle cars, how would the firebird have been like?...
but we keep getting off topic.

[Louis Smith]

I wouldn't necessarily say Ford "covers all the bases" with just two brands.  Ford doesn’t really have any "sports luxury" or "performance luxury" brand to go after the likes of BMW or Mercedes.  Lincoln, once back on its feet, seems to be more targeting Acura, Lexus and maybe Audi which are similar to Buick's targets.

How is Chrysler covering all bases with two brands?  They now actually have four brands, five if you count SRT.

All a matter of opinion.  Ford has somewhat reinvented itself, by remaining its Lincoln division as the Lincoln Motor Company.  No, Lincoln really doesn't have a product aimed toward the high end luxury car market as you describe.  My guess is that they were more concerned about producing cost effective luxury cars.  Time will tell if they did the right thing.  It is my opinion that, given the small percentage of luxury cars produced, it might be more beneficial for a manufacturer to produce more affordable cars.  Lets see how the Lincoln MKZ sells.  A lower priced luxury car.

Yes Chrysler has more then 2 brands, but their core sales are with Dodge and Chrysler brands.  Throwing in Jeep for good measure will make it three.

[Louis Smith]

I can't help to wonder, with the new "retro" mussle cars, how would the firebird have been like?...
but we keep getting off topic.

Given the success of the Camaro, I would said it would have been very successful, if they didn't try to do with it, what they did with the "retro" GTO.

[Makandriaco]

All a matter of opinion.  Ford has somewhat reinvented itself, by remaining its Lincoln division as the Lincoln Motor Company.  No, Lincoln really doesn't have a product aimed toward the high end luxury car market as you describe.  My guess is that they were more concerned about producing cost effective luxury cars.  Time will tell if they did the right thing.  It is my opinion that, given the small percentage of luxury cars produced, it might be more beneficial for a manufacturer to produce more affordable cars.  Lets see how the Lincoln MKZ sells.  A lower priced luxury car.

Yes Chrysler has more then 2 brands, but their core sales are with Dodge and Chrysler brands.  Throwing in Jeep for good measure will make it three.

What? no RAM? or are those part of Dodge?

[Louis Smith]

What? no RAM? or are those part of Dodge?

Well that are called Dodge Rams.  It appears as though Chrysler made their Dodge Trucks their own division.

[Big Apple Caddy]

They were the last ones to come to the table in realizing they didn't need as many brands.

GM came to their realization re: Oldsmobile and Pontiac before Ford did with Mercury.  Regardless, it was still sad to see them all disappear.  Even Plymouth, too.

[Big Apple Caddy]

I can't help to wonder, with the new "retro" mussle cars, how would the firebird have been like?...
but we keep getting off topic.

I understand GM wrestled with the idea of keeping Pontiac around as a niche performance brand with models like Firebird and G8 (which is returning as the Chevrolet SS) but decided against it.

[Big Apple Caddy]

Yes Chrysler has more then 2 brands, but their core sales are with Dodge and Chrysler brands.  Throwing in Jeep for good measure will make it three.

Jeep is much more than just "thrown in for good measure."  Jeep notably outsold Chrysler and Ram, and came within about 50,000 of outselling Dodge last year.

[Louis Smith]

Jeep is much more than just "thrown in for good measure."  Jeep notably outsold Chrysler and Ram, and came within about 50,000 of outselling Dodge last year.

I merely used the term "thrown in for good measure", to keep the discussion casual.  Latest reports show Jeeps sales sub par.

Top five Chrysler models by units sold in March (2013 sales):

    1. Ram pickup- 33,831 (77,594)

    2. Chrysler 200- 16,593 (36,885)

    3. Jeep Wrangler- 12,901 (31,846)

    4. Jeep Grand Cherokee- 12,629 (33,133)

    5. Dodge Avenger- 12,439 (32,047)

[Louis Smith]

GM came to their realization re: Oldsmobile and Pontiac before Ford did with Mercury.  Regardless, it was still sad to see them all disappear.  Even Plymouth, too.

That is true.  I was referring to my thinking that they should have eliminated brands a long time ago.  I think they had too many over lapping models, and were creating a self competing situation.  It is a well known fact that, for many years GM were producing "corporate cars".  This was highlighted in the 70's when Oldsmobile were putting Chevy engines in some of their models.  The soaring popularity of Oldsmobile vehicles resulted in a major issue in 1977, as demand exceeded production capacity for the Oldsmobile V8, and as a result Oldsmobile quietly began equipping some full size Delta 88 models and the very popular Cutlass/Cutlass Supreme with the Chevrolet 350 engine instead,

[Louis Smith]

I understand GM wrestled with the idea of keeping Pontiac around as a niche performance brand with models like Firebird and G8 (which is returning as the Chevrolet SS) but decided against it.

Chevrolet SS?  Interesting name and concept.  A RWD sedan being touted as a "performance" vehicle.  Not often that a sedan is thought of as a performance vehicle.  Is this supposed to be a tweaked Impala?

[Barry]

Why can't Cadillac build a COMFORTABLE convertible that has a DECENT back seat that 4 adults can enjoy ?

[Big Apple Caddy]

Latest reports show Jeeps sales sub par.

2013 Chrysler Group sales through March 2013:
Dodge - 158,751
Jeep - 100,951
Chrysler - 79,684
Ram - 79,354


The GM estimated 0-60 time for the Twin Turbo CTS is 4.6 seconds, pretty good don’t you think?

[Big Apple Caddy]

I think they had too many over lapping models, and were creating a self competing situation.  It is a well known fact that, for many years GM were producing "corporate cars".  This was highlighted in the 70's when Oldsmobile were putting Chevy engines in some of their models.  The soaring popularity of Oldsmobile vehicles resulted in a major issue in 1977, as demand exceeded production capacity for the Oldsmobile V8, and as a result Oldsmobile quietly began equipping some full size Delta 88 models and the very popular Cutlass/Cutlass Supreme with the Chevrolet 350 engine instead,

People seemed to get over that fairly quickly as "corporate overlap" continued into the 1980s and yet that decade had record sales years for brands like Oldsmobile, Buick, etc.

So, what percentage of customers do you think will cross shop CTS vs. XTS?