Don't quite understand locking out a particular subject

[hearn]

I personally have no desire to further discuss modifieds on this forum but I do believe that locking out this subject is a bit draconian.  I certainly understand Jim Eccleston's action as he is trying to keep peace but I don't believe that any position of CLC should be banned from discussion on the CLC forum.  Where else would one want to discuss it?  What subject would be locked out next?  People would just go sideways on every issue they wanted locked out of the CLC forum.  I do believe that when members of the forum cannot control their emotions (in print) then their part of the discussion should be deleted but don't lock out the subject.

[CDV]

The annual crash and burn soap opera thread that the moderators deem too controversial and antagonistic to allow to continue.

Club rules are well known so move along here.

Last years soap opera thread was Steven Tuck and the forum should be for members only.

I had some comments I wanted to post about your issue but the issue is closed now.

Some of us are not inclined to post at this forum anymore but these type of topics bring out the club fringe members that are generally looked down upon.

I personally think the consumables : batteries, inferior ( almost unsafe ) bias ply tires, hoses and belts should be excluded form judging the cars.  An inferior car will out point a superior car because of those issues. Judging the car not the consumables but rules are rules. Do they check the engine #'s at the GN for original ? Bane of the existence for a Corvette collector car judging.

Not trying to change the issue here but for a rare guest appearance here at the forum my 2 cents.

Real name and club # too.

Porter Littlefield CLC # 21919

[Big Fins]

Mr. Hearn. Shouldn't you get the correct definition of the word modified first? There are multiple online dictionaries to refer to. But in a basic sense of the word, it means to alter.

It seems that your car is extensively modified, yet you belittle others for make modifications, (alterations) to their cars. I, for one totally dislike seeing a Cadillac sitting on the frame with 20"+ tires and wagon wheels on it. I think it looks ridiculous.

But let's visit your car, shall we...

Your very first post to the CLC Forum;

Technical / Authenticity / 54 Cadillac gas tank pick up problem?
« on: August 09, 2011, 07:49:14 PM »
On a 1954 cdv, I am all of a sudden not having a full flow of gas out of the tank.  I am using a frame mounted electric fuel pump mounted just ahead of the back wheel on the driver's side.  At one point, I thought the fuel pump might be the culprit but when I removed it, no gas was flowing from the tank yet it was at least 3/4 full.  I replaced my original gas tank a few years back with exactly the same tank only in good shape.  I have the "bullet" in the line.  It is not the stock bullet but has been functioning fine for years.   Right now I suspecting the pickup tube, but before I pulled the tank, I was trying to remember exactly what the pickup tube looks like and exactly how I will access it.  Any input would be greatly appreciated.  Jim in Folsom, CA

Not stock to me means aftermarket. Therefore, MODIFIED.

More recently...

Want To Buy / Wanted: Fan shroud for a 1954 Cadillac
« on: August 07, 2012, 05:24:48 PM »
I am looking for a fan shroud the will fit a 1954 Cadillac.  You can reach me at 916 718-XXXX or email sherryjimmy6116@XXX.XXX or post back.  Thanks, Jim

Another;

Want To Buy / Steering unit for a 1954 Cadillac
« on: March 18, 2013, 06:31:42 PM »
I'm either looking for a complete two piece steering unit or a rebuilt or newish offset Saginaw steering gear box.  Thanks, Jim

Still more;

General Discussion / Re: White Wall Tires
« on: September 12, 2013, 01:15:52 AM »
I bought a set of Diamondbacks for my 54 CdV.  I did buy the warranty (I recommend this) and have had to replace all four tires due to edge of ww turning brown.  I am still not really happy with these tires.

On wire wheels, be sure that the offset is correct if you buy a new set.

While I have never seen your car, I am only assuming that you purchased the DiamondBacks in the radial form, and I don't think that your car came with wires, because it's a CDV and not an Eldorado.
And to protect your privacy, I deleted any personal information from your quotes.

Now, can we put this to rest? It's old and tired. Every Classic Car owner modified his/her car in some way shape or form. Even when you make a '41 into 12 volts, it's modified. You may put the same size, brand, style of tires on the car. That is replacement of a worn object. To replace the tires with a different type of tire is a modification. What about your battery? Optima? Parts store brand? Even a new Delco? Modified sir. It's not original.

[CDV]

Most of us are on the same page here. Any reversible modification that makes the car safer and more reliable only makes common sense if you want to drive the car with peace of mind.

If you want a 100 point car and a GN trophy nothing wrong with that. Depends on the weather ( hot and vapor lock issues without an electric fuel pump) .Besides the fact the gas is formulated different these days, almost not useable for the older cars.

Bias ply tires are a handful on the road these days. Get on the NJ TPK and the road has grooves in the truck lanes, car will wonder side to side and wear you out right quick. Steel radials track straight and handle better.

Not easy to drive an old original car in these times,  out gunned by the new rides - 75 mph feels like 55 mph in an older car. Most highways you'll get run over if you aren't doing 75 mph by the trucks.

P. Littlefield

[Big Fins]

I compete with Florida traffic all of the time in my '59. 80 mph is a walk in the park with that car. It touches 100 just about everytime it hits the Interstate. Ya have to stay with the traffic.

Oh yeah, 390/Hydra-Matic, 4 wheel drum brakes, 1035 Pitman Arm still there, and yes, radial tires. On coral roads I get a few more years out of them that way. The difference is a skilled driver and the knowledge of the car.

I'll left lane the Joisey T/P any day all day and stay with the daily beat all to heck junk there. I'll even go so far as to say I'll left lane I-295.

[CDV]

A modified 1926 Cadillac Superior hearse.

Shopped on eBay back in 2007 and no takers. Nobody stepped up to the plate and wanted to restore it - what was left of it. Sheet metal was good but the wood frame body was all rotten. He didn't buy it to restore it. Have a totally stock body and interior when done. All the comforts and ride of a modern car and drivetrain sans power windows. No TT steering column either - old school ride.

Drive train and suspension parts were sold to 1926 Cadillac restoration people that wanted the parts.

Chassis has been pro built and no detail has been spared with this ride. Air bag suspension aka Cadillac Brougham.

I got drafted to restore the wood body and all the wood was dry rotted so we duplicated the entire wood frame body - no other option. Spent nine weeks accomplishing that end product.

A work in progress with much more to do. What would have happened to this vehicle otherwise I have no idea. Not a project for the feint hearted resto or otherwise.

http://cadillacinsouthernontario.com/index.php?topic=378.0

P. Littlefield

[Jay Friedman]

On the other hand, I have a '49 Club Coupe whose only mods are seat belts, an FM radio under the dash and a remote master cylinder reservoir from a '54 (to make checking the fluid easier).  With 6 volts, bias ply tires, drum brakes, stock engine and suspension I drive it regularly, including 15 or so long trips at interstate speeds to Grand Nationals up to 1,000 miles from home. 

[52Cadillac]

If its not allowed in CLC national meet competitions. Then it's modified beyond what the CLC rules allow.
Mike

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I personally have no desire to further discuss modifieds on this forum but I do believe that locking out this subject is a bit draconian.  I certainly understand Jim Eccleston's action as he is trying to keep peace but I don't believe that any position of CLC should be banned from discussion on the CLC forum.  Where else would one want to discuss it?  What subject would be locked out next?  People would just go sideways on every issue they wanted locked out of the CLC forum.  I do believe that when members of the forum cannot control their emotions (in print) then their part of the discussion should be deleted but don't lock out the subject.

Hello Mr Hearn,

The CLC's policy of recognizing all Cadillacs & La Salle motorcars had been extended to include recognition of modified cars some time ago and it is in the spirit of promoting camaraderie among all aficionados of the Marque the policy was so implemented.

Ever since the automobile's invention, owners have found unique and interesting ways of customizing their cars to their individual preference. Indeed the roots of this practice are not unlike those of golden classic era of the coachbuilding days. Such creativity, ingenuity, talent and craftsmanship on the part of these individuals in many cases is equal to many of the finest restoration-to-stock specialists and I for one see nothing incongruent with CLC's basic mission and its policy of recognition of such creations, judged in a separate category.

I respectfully disagree with your position that a car so altered "is no longer a Cadillac" as the criteria for making such a distinction is not only highly subjective but encompasses a major gray area that defies precise definition- as pointed out in a number of the above responses.

I hope this helps to clarify things.

Regards,
Eric       

[Barry]

What happened to just enjoying the ownership of a car that makes you happy and sharing it with others who ,may enjoy it. This constant talk about judging and points makes me keep my 96 point Eldorado in the garage unless I drive it out to dinner !Don't mean to step on toes, but this is why i do not join the Lincoln or Cadillac club--too much emphasis on judging and not enough on fun . I do enjoy this forum , and thank those who make it available ! Barry Norman

[Big Fins]

I like my cars you like yours and we all like talking about them. As long as I use my money and I get what I like that's all that matters and I assume we all do the likewise.

Finally. Someone gets it. I love looking at a 100 point all  mostly 'original' show car. I admire anyone that has the time and resources to make and keep a car like that. But he can't just jump in, turn the key and go cruising the Turnpike with it without the fear of it being damaged by flying debris or some other means of damage.

I'm on pins and needles all the time driving mine. As they are taking pictures at 80 mph, they are drifting toward you. They ride up 12 inches off of your bumper, cut in front of you taking all of your space cushion. And mine isn't even a 60 point car. But it's fun.

I was just trying to convey that while Mr. Hearn didn't think that the CLC should embrace the modifieds he is/was doing the same and should never have brought the subject up in the first place. But he himself wants his car to be embraced by the Club. Also, there is an overwhelming number of CLC members that are also Modified Members, simply because there are alternate ideas there for making 'your' classic a fun, enjoyable car to drive.

Look at all of Jay Leno's perfect rides. And he drives every one of them. Some original, some modified. All fun, just the same.

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So what. Let it hit the presses.

[Barry]

If my local chapter was more active, I would be more inclined to participate. Most of the shows in my area ( NC ) are only for street rods and red camaros/mustangs. Very little appreciation for Cadillacs-original or otherwise. Hence, mine stay in the garage and go on nice country drives which is what they are meant for. Would love the opportunity to share with others what I enjoy, and elect to display them without judging, as winning a trophy means absolutely nothing to me. It's just the love of the car and the smile it gives someone that counts ! B. Norman

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

We can go on ad infinitum about things we'd like see changed in any major organization. To have 100% of the people agree 100% of the time on 100% of the issues is a simple & mathematical impossibility. This does not change what I feel is a automobile club that as much to offer the Cadillac & La Salle partisan - whether it be an owner, hobbyist, collector or simply an admirer.

I feel those who say they don't want to show their car, participate etc in Club activities are allowing minutia to obfuscate the main objective of the CLC's mission. It would be akin to renouncing one's citizenship every time someone was elected with whom one disagrees.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

In regards to modified car judging, page 60 of the 2013 CLC Club Directory states the following:

"Modified Cadillacs or LaSalles owned by CLC members may be entered in any appropriate judged Division, but the judging criteria used by the Club will result in deductions for departures from authenticity (except in permitted cases such as safety glass, seat belts, battery disconnect switches, etc.).

These deductions will be applied regardless of the quality or craftsmanship or other qualities present. For this reason, it is suggested that owners of modified vehicles enter them in the Modified Car Division (nonjudged). Occasionally there may be unofficial judging performed."

-Carl L. Steig

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Correct Eric non-judged.

If you enter as normal the above deductions I outlined above apply.

A catch all for display only and not to be judged. Or rather to be enjoyed and looked at.

Basically, yes. For display with possible unofficial judging.

In any case, the OP's original concern is fairly a moot point.

[INTMD8]

George, for the record I have no problem talking about anything though your points have already been addressed. If you want to continue feel free to pm me.

[Big Fins]

What would you think of me gracing my interior with that out of a '70 SDV? It's turning out gorgeous.

[Big Fins]

It a #3. Nice for me. The interior was very dry-rotted and it broke my back to drive it long distances. The seat springs were shot, the carpeting was about gone, so I decided to make it into something that I liked that was comfortable.

The door panels were perfect, the headliner perfect, so I had a good basis to start with. I obtained an excellent set of dark blue seats and got into it.

As it's said all over...No one wants a 4 door car. I do. I don't like 2 door cars. It's mechanically near perfect, now the interior, next will be to the exterior.

Not baiting you at all. And true, it matters not what you think, it's what I like. It'll look like a factory done car when I'm finished. Besides, do you know how cramped a '59 Cadillac is for the driver?    At least this way, I'm picking up 3-4 more inches of legroom in the front.

[Big Fins]

I still have all of the original stuff. Right down to the generator and regulator if anyone wanted to turn it back to factory. I butchered the car in no way.

[Big Fins]

The same way the originals did on the back. There are two tabs at the bottom that fold over the frame rail and it hooks on the back wall the same way. Behind the armrest there are two retaining bolts that I used and fabricated braces to hold it in place.

The bottom is like any of the modern seats. I fabricated retaining clips which lock to the seat frame holding it down and preventing it from sliding forward. The '59 seat base just sits in 2 holes in the floor pan. This is much more secure than the original design. Plus I lined the interior with FatMat sound deadener and insulation. That's the silver stuff that you see. 

I guess this thread is officially hijacked !!!