1949 Fleetwood Dashboard and window frame finish - black leather grain?

[49 Sedanette]

Hi all... long time, no post.

I am redoing the interior of a 1949 Fleetwood, a basically good but tired car, and I am really puzzled so I am requesting help. I browsed the forum with no luck. The car is black, with a black and gray interior. Dashboard and window frames are painted (I don't think it is original) a sort of dark gray metallic, and it still has what appears to be a painted or di-noc central part in a sort of blueish-gray with some pattern.

The Authenticity manual mentions that for 1948 and depending on color for 1949, dashboards and window frames should be a simulated black leather grain. I have looked and looked for pics, trying to understand what I need to try to duplicate.

Can somebody help me by describing it or better still, post a pic of the black leather grain finish? I am posting one of my silvery gray central part.

Thanks,
victor

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

Is yours a 75 series or 60 special ?

[49 Sedanette]

Jeff:

Sorry I didn't mention it. It is a Sixty Special. Most of the cars I have seen either in person or in pics have the wooden type dashboard finish, as your pic describes.

My car has black leather with gray cloth interior. It was original but in bad condition and replaced by the previous owner, a very good friend of mine and my car mentor. He bought similar cloth from Bill Hirsch (if I recall correctly) and did the seats but never got to doing the doors. Now that I got the car from him, I am doing doors, and headliner, and while at it, I intend to redo dashboard and window garnish mouldings.

The Originality guide does mention the woodgrain, but also, depending on color, a "simulated black leather grain with a light gray (silvery) middle dash panel". I am enclosing the pic of the page.

Thanks!
victor

[Doc Hubler]

I thought the 49 dashes were painted without graining, but I'm not the expert on that year.  I thought Cadillac tried to get away from the complicated and expensive dash of 1948 by going to a conventional instrument panel/dash without the graining.  My 1948 is the brown leather grain, and has the mauve/brown bolster seats.  I know that 1948 60S Fleetwoods had the exact color that you are asking about in leather grain.  I looked around and couldn't find one although I've seen pictures of these before.  The upholstery is gray with black bolsters I think.  Attached some pictures of the leather grain I did for my 48 Cadillac.  I will also be doing a bluish leathergrain over silver gray for my 1950 Hudson Commodore which was the standard they used that year with blue interiors (had brown leather grain with brown interiors).  If you have pieces of the dash/door panels that haven't been disturbed underneath, you can get the base coat color, then do the leather graining almost black. 

[49 Sedanette]

Doc:

Thanks for the pics. Quite impressive work!

I know nothing for sure, but I am guessing the Originality manual must be correct, so there has to be that black leather grain for 1949. My car does have a small piece at the sides of the steering column on which you can see it, but it seems it was varnished to protect it and the varnish turned yellowish and dark, opaque, so I cannot tell the real pattern or color.

I read your list of cars. Quite a collection! The 1941 Hudson pickup with shorter chassis would be my favorite ever pickup on car chassis, just after the 1937 Studebaker coupe express. I have been looking for either of the two to restore with no luck. Congratulations!

victor

[Richardonly]

Victor,

My 1948 60S only has the leather finish about 1/2 middle to lower portion.  Here are some pics, but doubt the leather look can be seen.  "Supposedly" the car is a survivor.

Richard

[Jay Friedman]

The following documentation of 1949 Series 60 Special Fleetwood dash color is copied from the 1948-49 Authenticity Manual.  This information, was taken, in turn, from the 1935-55 Cadillac Master Parts List's chart showing '49 Cadillac interior colors. 

(FYI: A "Di-Noc Transfer" is a type of large decal applied at the factory that covers the dash and givers the dash its color.  On Series 61 and 62 coupes and sedans the Di Noc Transfers were a dark brown-black in color with black lines swirled around to give a fake look of woodgraining.  There was no other color choice on Series 61 and 62 coupes and sedans.  Series 62 convertibles and Couple de Villes dashboards were painted and did not have a Di Noc Transfer.  As can be seen below, Series 60 Special Di Noc Transfers had a variety of colors depending on the interior trim color.)

1949 SERIES 60 SPECIAL SEDAN DASH COLORS:

1. EVERYTHING ON STEERING COLUMN EXCEPT STEERING WHEEL:
2. BRACKETS FOR VENTILATOR CONTROL, HOOD PULL AND HAND BRAKE:
   Burr Brown Iridescent Synthetic Enamel (R&M P.S. 10850)

UPPER AND LOWER DASHBOARD PANEL:
If Interior Is Trimmed In Tan: Black and Brown Simulated Wood Grain Di-Noc Transfer
If Interior Is Trimmed In Green or Grey: Black Simulated Leather Grain Di-Noc Transfer

MIDDLE DASHBOARD PANEL AND ADJACENT DOOR:
If Interior Is Trimmed In Tan:                  Light Tan Di-Noc Transfer
If Interior Is Trimmed In Green or Grey:   Light Gray (Silvery) Di-Noc Transfer

INSTRUMENT PANEL AND DOOR PANEL ENDS VISIBLE WHEN DOOR OPENS:
If Interior Is Trimmed In Tan:              Chaco Brown Lacquer (R&M P.S. 8889)
If Interior Is Trimmed In Green or Grey:   Cirrus Gray Lacquer (R&M P.S. 10102)

PANEL SURROUNDING CHROME OPENINGS, RADIO AND ASHTRAY GRILLS:
If Interior Is Trimmed In Tan:                   Chaco Brown Synthetic Enamel (R&M 10845)
If Interior Is Trimmed In Green or Grey:   Cirrus Gray Iridescent Synthetic Enamel (R&M 10133)

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

No Black grain in my mint dash , but notice how the glove box has changed to a different hue since 49.

I'll always remember removing my heater box to repair the core leak and peering up into, I found the underside of the dash undercoated__________incredible.

[Jay Friedman]

Jeffo is right; they are brown swirls.

Jay

[Doc Hubler]

Jeff's dash looks almost like a marbleized dash.  Kind of almost like the Chrysler plastic stuff of 1942, but finer swirls. 

Victor:  There was another 1941 1/2T truck for sale north of Seattle.  don't know if it sold.  There are also two rough 1/2T (1941) pickups near where I live.  Don't know if the guy will part with them, but cash is always an inducement! 

[49 Sedanette]

Richard: thanks for posting the pics. I can see you car is gorgous! but unfortunately I cannot see the simulated leather grain thing, so let me ask you, if I may: If you would have to describe it, and considering it cannot be the exact same color throughout or otherwise you would not be able to see the design printed on the di-noc, would it be black and a very dark gray?, would it be matt, shiny or satin?
Thanks again,
victor

[49 Sedanette]

Jay: your originality guide seems much more complete than mine! Mine says only what I posted in my pic. Now, if I may ask... so, if you have a black leather grain dashboard, according to the first lines you transcribed, I need to have:
"1. EVERYTHING ON STEERING COLUMN EXCEPT STEERING WHEEL:
2. BRACKETS FOR VENTILATOR CONTROL, HOOD PULL AND HAND BRAKE:
   Burr Brown Iridescent Synthetic Enamel (R&M P.S. 10850)"
May look a little odd, don't you think? Unless that Burr Brown Iridescent woudl be a sort of in between color, gray -Brown, but of course that is only my opinion... I just find it a little strange.
Thanks,
victor

[49 Sedanette]

Jeff: thanks for posting pics of your car. Gorgeous! I would think it needs to be two tone Brown to look that way. Congratulations!


Doc: Thanks but I guess my dream of owning a 1941 half ton Hudson pickup will have to wait a little longer... I am too tight on funds right now.

[49 Sedanette]

I have browsed and browsed pics and I found something rather interesting... remember I mentioned my dashboard had a part in it's lower area, between steering wheel and left door, where I could see the pattern but which was not black?... I even mentioned I though somebody had varnished it to protect it and that it had turned yellowish...

Well, first couple of pics is my car's interior, left side and right side with the worn or not existing pattern in the glove box (which means I need to do it anyway).

Third pic is one I found on the net, the car with the seat belts.

You will notice they both have the same color on the bottom. In my case I think the upper part was painted metallic gray, but in the second car it could very well be that the car has the black part on top.

Any opinions?

That would seem to difer with what the authenticity manual says… or could it be that all of the bottom part was a different color that the upper part?

Thanks,
victor

[Richardonly]

Victor,

Remember, mine is a 1948.

The painted surfaces in the car, dash and door metal near the windows are a high gloss black.  Where the leather look is, is also high gloss., thus the color is consistant throughout, except that the lower part of the dash (ONLY) has the leather look.

Funny thing is that I have only seen the woodgrain look in the forum and have yet to see one in person.

Maybe Google "pics of 1949 Cadillac dashboards"? 

Here it is.............https://www.google.com/search?q=pics+of+1949+cadillac+dashboards&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=0wnpUo-ND6iY2wWGiYCQBQ&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1360&bih=640

Good luck, Richard

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

Here's a few pictures of a 49 dash/door sash they tried to duplicate the wood grain ($2,000) from my dash pictures.

[Jay Friedman]

The Burr Brown Iridescent paint is more a gray with a bit of brown in it than pure brown.  At least that's the way it appears on my '49.

[49 Sedanette]

Thanks guys!

At this point, I am not sure what I will do, but I guess, since there is a coincidence between the two Sixty Special pics I posted in the color and even apparent texture that goes below the dashboard, I will paint it again that way, and it complements nicely with the Burr Brown (which almost cries to be called a gray) for the steering column.

Big doubt is still the upper part of the dashboard and window frames... that 'elusive' black leather grain.

Thanks,
victor

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

Victor,

Many club members do not frequent this board. There are 57 owners of ‘48 & ’49 Sixty Specials listed in the Directory. You might be able to find someone who has an original finish in their car who could send you pics. The other option is the Heritage Collection has an original ’48 that I inspected at the ’08 GN. I don’t have a contact name but a cold call may lead to help. I know the leather look finish you are asking about and doubt that it could be described in less than 1000 words. Fleetwoods are all about tailored upholstery and special finishes. It might be worth a bit extra time researching it further.

Ralph

[49 Sedanette]

Thanks Ralph!

"Fleetwoods are all about tailored upholstery and special finishes.".... yes, I have noticed! The amount of detail into every door panel is really impressive. I have never seen such a complex way of making them, with so many cardboard parts, cuts, stitches, etc. I am taking all the time needed to do it correctly, or that is the intention.

Dashboard is equally important. I want to do it the right way. A friend doing artwork and printing is doing the blue-silver silky part now. I think that we can get a pretty good sample of the lower part from my own car and I hope to find or get a sample to do the upper dashboard.

Victor