Last Year for Standard Transmission?

[mgbeda]

A few years ago I saw a stock 1971 LeSabre sedan with a 350 and a 3-on-the-tree for sale in the Buick Bugle.  I bet that is one rare car.

-mB

[Alan Harris CLC#1513]

My late father in law was a curmudgeonly type who vowed that he would only buy an automatic transmission once they were perfected. He once told me that when he was ready to trade up from a 1950 Ford, he wanted to go to a 1955 Buick or Olds, but only if he could get a manual transmission.

He said that none of the Buick or Oldsmobile dealers wanted to order a stick shift car because they were afraid of being stuck with it. They all wanted a very hefty deposit on the order. He ended up buying a V-8 1955 Chevy Belair because only the Chevy dealer wanted to order a stick shift car.

He eventually had 1960 and 1965 Impalas with stick shifts. Finally, for his 1970 Caprice, he finally relented and bought an automatic. He had to have been one of the last holdouts.

[hudson29]

Does anyone remember that great picture made around 1948 called DOA (Dead On Arrival)? It is one of my all time favorite pictures and I have seen it many times. The bad guys are riding around in a big Buick convertible of some sort. I think the movie car probably had an autobox of some sort. There is a scene showing the foot pedals that would seem to suggest this. Whatever year and model that Buick was it would sure be great with a standard transmission.

I seem to remember someone mentioning one time that Buick, like so many other makers, undergeared their cars and that they need an overdrive to maintain modern highway speeds. Is this true? I still marvel at my 75 year old Caddie which just whispers along at 70 mph in high gear. No OD needed!

Vintage Paul

[Walter Youshock]

HM was designed by, or early credit was given to, Oldsmobile.  Introducing it for the 1941 Cadillacs and Oldsmobiles showed GM's faith in the product.  Generally, new gadgets were tested out as options on Olds or other makes before being available on Cadillacs so as to not stain the Cadillac name if it wasn't perfected or desirable.  Then the War came.  HMs were used in Cadillac's M24 tanks.  That transmission was beat to hell by thousands of GIs.  The bugs were being worked out of them during the War.  When these veterans came home, many were very familiar with the reliability of the HM AND Cadillac engines, further cementing Cadillac's position as not only a luxury car but a true quality piece of machinery.  The "Dream Car of 40,000,000" in the '50's was more than skin-deep tailfins and power windows. 

[Jay Friedman]

Hydra-matic was actually introduced in 1940 on Oldsmobiles and only on Cadillacs in '41 after it was proven to be reliable on Oldsmobiles as Walter mentioned.

[Mike Simmons 938]

I sold my stick '49 series 62 fastback about 30 years ago to a good friend-he still has it. It had  JEN-YOU-WINE Tijuana non-automotive upholstery and a mediocre  black paint job  ( I found Mexican chewing gum wrappers behind a rear side panel when I rewired it for him-confirming the source of the upholstery).
I think he may be ready to sell-still with the same paint and upholstery BUT major chassis changes. e.g Rack and Pinion power steering, 4-wheel power (?)disc brakes, genuine knock-off wire wheels, a modified 54 engine with dual-fours,  Mallory, etc and a Ford 9-inch rear. Still has the stick trans, though.
He told me once he "might" take $25K for it, but after 30 years there's still an attachment.

He doesn't know that I am hawking his ride for him, but if anyone might be interested in it, I'll pass on the info.
Mike Simmons (938)
PS-His wife is the only computer user in his house- so you can't eMail him, unfortunately.

[Richard Sills - CLC #936]

Some years ago, I was looking at a friend's literature collection.  He showed me two large prestige sales brochures for the 1941 Cadillac, and challenged me to find the difference between them.  I looked at both books, and turned page after page in each one, but they appeared identical.  Then he told me to look at the last page where the specifications were given in fine print.  In one of the sales brochures, under the heading "transmission", it stated "three-speed synchro-mesh".  In the other brochure, under the same heading, it said "three-speed synchro-mesh; Hydramatic transmission available at additional cost".  The brochure that did not mention Hydramatic had a printing date that was a few months earlier than the other brochure.

Based on that discovery, I believe Hydramatic was not available on Cadillacs when the 1941 model year first began, but became available sometime during the model year.  Can anyone confirm whether this is correct?

On a separate note, another friend bought a 1959 Buick LeSabre convertible with a 3-speed manual transmission from the estate of the original owner.   The original owner's brother recalled that the local Buick dealer, a friend of the family, had tried to talk his brother out of ordering the car with a manual transmission.  The dealer pointed out that whatever cost savings could be realized from buying the car without Dynaflow would be more than offset by the loss in resale value whenever the car was traded in, as no one would want a car like that with a 3-speed manual shift.  The dealer was so concerned about selling his friend a car that would be unsalable later on that he offered to sell him a similar car with Dynaflow, and delete the extra charge for the Dynaflow.  But the original owner was stubborn, and insisted that the car be ordered exactly as he wanted it. 

I would guess that a similar scenario occurred anytime a medium-priced or high-priced car was ordered with a 3-speed column shift transmission years after an automatic transmission had become available. 

[Jay Friedman]

Richard,

I've "heard" or read somewhere that, as you wrote, Cadillac didn't offer Hydra-matic until some months into the '41 model year, but, I can't remember where so can't confirm it.  One of the '41 experts in the club must know.

In an earlier posting in this thread I mentioned that a college (Florida State U.) classmate of mine bought a brand new '59 Buick LeSabre convertible with a manual transmission.  There couldn't have been too many of these made so I'm wondering if by some coincidence it's the same one your friend had.  I can't remember my classmate's name but I, of course, remember the car well which was grey in color and would have been sold new in Tallahassee, Florida or thereabouts. 

[Mike Simmons 938]

My Justin Hartley repro 41 Data Book (dated 9-13-40 on every page) makes no mention of hydramatic  anywhere. This seems to back up the contention  that the hydramatic was probably  not initially available .
Mike Simmons 938

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Page 44 in the book Cadillacs of the Forties by Roy Schneider and his discussion of the 41 Cadillac it states" In March the factory publicly announced the Hydra-matic, a revolutionary and mostly Cadillac engineered, fully automatic transmission" The book goes on to say" A factory press release on March 1, stated " To date only a limited number of cars were equipped with the new drive system and currently approximately 50 percent of Cadillacs` production carries the new automatic shift"

Production of the 41 probably started sometime in Sept 1940 as Schneider goes on to say that dealers had the 41 in their showrooms on Oct 1 so it looks like 5-6 months into the 41 production before the hydra-matic was available to the public.
Bill

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Bill & others,
I feel that Roy is incorrect on that date. And I've always thought that. I just looked a some of my 41 invoices. Ones for cars shipped in Nov. & earlier have no "T" code in the lower RH for option codes. The ones dated Dec. & later do. So... Hydros were offered in Dec. or possible late Nov. Anyone have some invoices in that time frame? Maybe we can get closer on a date.
Bob