Correct wheel color for 1970 Convertible?

[wrefakis]

the grammar police know jack about cadillac's

[Scot Minesinger]

Mike,

Yes starting in mid 73 I think GM used VIR's across the line.  The car is not mine, repairing for friend/customer (this is side work for me).  Apparently, I am one of the only people in the Washington DC Metropolitan area that can work on these climate control systems, so there is a waiting list.

Some of my best accomplishments:

1.  Restored a 1967 DeVille in 2013 replacing and refinishing everything except the blower motor(wheel was replaced) and the condenser.  This included removing heater and evap casings from firewall, removing rat nests, replacing metal blades in there and all.  Then it won primary at GN that summer-does that make it oK to be called a prize winning mechanic.

2.  Restored a 1976 Cadillac Eldorado climate control system for an affluent lawyer who spent five figures over the years to no avail.  I fixed it no problem.  They were using freeze 12 and mineral oil, so it tarred up and it took quite a flushing to remove.  Now works great.

Yes r134 is the only way to go for me (yes I know R12 cools better, but that is the only advantage).  I have the $4,000 machine that recovers, and all devoted to r134.  The 71 thru 76 Cadillacs (never worked on newer than 76) seem to be great with R134, no complaints from any customers about not cooling well.  The 65 thru 70 R134 does not quite keep up on hot sunny days, but it makes the inside tolerable. 

You don't have to sell me on R134, I am a believer.  The problem with r12, say for example on this 74 is that the VIR was leaking and there remained some charge that had to be recovered.  I don't know anyone who has a recovery machine to extract r12.  This was converted to r134, so it took ten minutes to recover it.  The fine for venting r12 to the atmosphere is 25k if caught.  R12 was last used in 1993 before the wide spread advent of recovery machines, and so there are no plentiful supply of used ones.  Recovery machines are always devoted to a refrigerant type and cannot be used on different types.  I would use r12 if it was able to be serviced.

This post may be followed by a bunch of pro r12 people, on that we agree to disagree.  But now R134 is a "greenhouse gas" and may become phased out.  If that happens then not sure what I will do then, but that is a decade away at least.

[cadillacmike68]

My 1968 is doing fine with R134; my AC guy is an expert in these old systems. I usually have the top down, but i check it out every couple of weeks, and even in 100+ it cools the car quite well.

You can thanks the EU for R134 getting dissed. They are the ones who denigrated it.

[Scot Minesinger]

My 1970 convertible always cools me down fine w/r134 even in hot weather (say 95'F) when I test it once a year.  It usually operates once a month when I get caught in a rain.  Almost always the top is down.

Some of my customers complain that at a car show after their car has been in the hot sun all day (1965-70 Cadillacs) it will have trouble getting the car comfortable quickly.  No question r12 is better cooling, but it is too expensive and too difficult to work with due to lack of recovery machines.  Those 71 thru 76 Cadillacs, most people say that my r134 conversion will drive them out of the car it can get so cold.

[76eldo]

I was able to locate some R12 when I replaced the compressor on my 70 DeVille.
It seized up from lack of use I guess.
With a new compressor, proper oil, and the proper service done it works perfectly.
On the way to the Boston GN my wife kept asking me to turn it down because she was too cold.

Keep checking Craig's list for R12 in the little cans.  There are stashes out there.
I bought 30 cans a while back for $400.00. Cheaper than 134a at Walmart!

It really does work better in the older systems plus looks better under the good with the original fittings.

Brian

[Scot Minesinger]

Brian,

I was at GN in Boston with my red 1970 Cadillac DVC.  Which one did you have, color?  I was the guy with the starter problem making repairs Friday morning.

You did well, and especially on the cost.  These systems do last a while, I replaced the hoses and condenser (for cosmetics) in 2005 and charged with r134 and have done nothing since and it works fine (not as cold as r12).  Previous owner replaced compressor in 2004 in an attempt to restore system.  Your r12 may last a long time.  However, I have done repairs for friends and the new rebuilt VIR (1974-76) was bad and the system had to be evacuated to replace it.  If I used r12 that would have been a problem.  One time the second VIR was bad (replacement quality is terrible).

Anyway, yes r12 works better and is correct under-hood.  When you replaced the old compressor was there a charge in it?  If so how was it removed?  Presume it must have leaked out?  If want to service the a/c say for a bad expansion valve or POA, the refrigerant needs to be recovered to avoid a 25k epa fine.  I do not know any place in our area that will do it, although they have got to be around and charge fees accordingly.  It is the what if you have to service it question that makes r12 an issue primarily for me.

Plus I have 8 cars (5 daily drivers, 4 drivers in family, and soon to be 5) that all use r134 and so I can service them all.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Keep the faith Brian.
Greg Surfas

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Scott,
You mention the EPA fine.  It is actually $37,500 for violating ANY of its regulations.
Greg Surfas

[76eldo]

I also had  a red 70 DeVille convertible at the Boston GN.

It is all original, now has 30K miles.

I received a preservation award for the car.

There are guys with 30lb cans around too for sale but I don't trust what may be IN the can.  The little sealed 1 pound cans are safer.

Mike Cascio from the Raritan region worked on the car in my garage.  We installed the compressor and he evacuated the system and did the freon charge.  Terrific guy if you need any help in NJ or PA.

Brian

[Scot Minesinger]

Brian,

Great set up then.  The a/c systems last a long time when you have them working right.


Greg,

That is inflation for you.  In early 90's it started out at 25k.  Justifiably due to inflation most likely they raised it.