ZDDP in Motor Oil

[Tlentz]

Amsoil rep 1300 parts p/m in 5w30

[Jason Edge]

I haven't used any oil additive in my 1964 Coupe DeVille with the flat tappet lifters since I bought it in 1996. You can still buy oils with increased zinc and phosphorous levels. I have an AutoZone that stocks the Valvoline 10W30 VR1 Racing Oil and have been using it for 10+ years with excellent results.  You can find it in non-synthetic (grey bottle) and synthetic (black bottle). Here is a link: http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/racing/racing-motor-oil/
When I rebuilt my 429 engine in 2012 I ran the non-synthetic oil for break in for about the first 1500 miles then switched to the synthetic (black bottle) VR/1 racing oil.  Our AutoZone's sell this VR/1 Racing oil in limited quantities and haven't checked other stores. I know eBay and Amazon carry it.  It's a bit pricy but don't have to worry about adding "stuff" to my oil.

[dadscad]

You sound like an Amsoil salesman!  When we added Bardahl, STP, Marvel Mystery Oil, Cadillac/GM Additives to whatever engine oil we were running, they all mixed and operated well together.  ZDDP additives are no different.  Personally, I use 8 0z of Red Line's Engine Break In Oil for my ZDDP protection.
[/quote]

LOL..HA-HA. Well Jon, I am a Dealer! But that being aside, there are other brand conventional oils and synthetics that have the proper ingredients that will protect the cam and lifters without having to mix your own.

Back in the day when all the additives you mention were so popular, oil formulations were different than they are today. Today's oils are much better than yesteryear's. I would still err on the cautious side and find a motor oil I felt comfortable using, that was formulated to do what I need without having to add extra ingredients to try and make it work. The manufacturer has the R&D experience and knows what ingredients are compatible without causing harm.

Just call me cautious Dave.

[Jon S]

You sound like an Amsoil salesman!  When we added Bardahl, STP, Marvel Mystery Oil, Cadillac/GM Additives to whatever engine oil we were running, they all mixed and operated well together.  ZDDP additives are no different.  Personally, I use 8 0z of Red Line's Engine Break In Oil for my ZDDP protection.


LOL..HA-HA. Well Jon, I am a Dealer! But that being aside, there are other brand conventional oils and synthetics that have the proper ingredients that will protect the cam and lifters without having to mix your own.

Back in the day when all the additives you mention were so popular, oil formulations were different than they are today. Today's oils are much better than yesteryear's. I would still err on the cautious side and find a motor oil I felt comfortable using, that was formulated to do what I need without having to add extra ingredients to try and make it work. The manufacturer has the R&D experience and knows what ingredients are compatible without causing harm.

Just call me cautious Dave.

Haha - You do sound like one! 

Bottom line, if any of us hear tapping from our engines (especially after an oil change), the first thing to think of is insufficient lubrication and double check the Zinc and Phosphorus levels of the engine oil used.  I think we all have our preferred methods for maintaining the ZDDP levels . . . is one better than the other - don't know.  As long as we have proper ZDDP levels, our engines will be happy and treat us well.  Happy motoring!!!

[R Schroeder]

From the very first posting. The web site that was posted.

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RACING OIL

For serious performance engines that are not driven on the street, specially formulated racing oils that contain higher levels of ZDDP are recommended. Racing oils typically have 1500 ppm or more of ZDDP along with other special friction modifiers and additives to help cut friction and prevent wear in a racing application. The mount of detergent and dispersant in racing oil is usually less than a street oil because the oil is changed much more often.

Using a racing oil on the street is NOT recommended, especially if you think you can get by with normal oil change intervals. Racing oils are designed for short term use only.

[Ralph Messina CLC 4937]

Guys,

Thanks for your responses. I took Henning's suggestion and bought a stash of Cam and Lifter Prelube from Timberline.

Ralph

[Jason Edge]

VR1 Synthetic is about 1100 ppm and is suitable for cars requiring up to SL grade oil. It is used by many 1960's muscle car owners. Do some research and you will find rave reviews from those that use it.  It should not be confused by with the VR1 Not Street Legal oil they also carry.
Here is some basic info on their site:
Valvoline VR-1 Synthetic Racing Motor Oil is a family of race-proven lubricants formulated to provide high load carrying characteristics, minimum foaming and maximum resistance to thermal degradation. Exclusive chemistry reduces internal friction and enhances power output under extreme service conditions. Valvoline VR-1 Synthetic Racing Motor Oil is recommended for engines burning gasoline and full or partial alcohol fuels in track and street service. Valvoline VR-1 Synthetic Racing Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where API “SL” is recommended(see proper viscosity grade below).

Here is the page this is being pulled from: http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_synthetic.pdf

The bottom line is if you take general oil and dump a bunch of chemicals into your oil, who knows what final mix you will get. I did my homework way back and came to the conclusion (along with many others out there these older engines) that the VR1 oil is great for these old flat tappet engines.   I would suggest anyone interested in an oil with higher ZDDP do some research, and check out the feedback on the Valvoline VR1 oil.

[47bigcadillac]

I have been using the same ZDDplus additive from EBay for several years on all my classic cars (1932-1947) and it does quiet the tapping noise ..so far no issues to report

I use regular mineral oil and sometimes synthetic oil in the "tighter" engines having less leaks past the rings, and pour one bottle or two at each changes...no need to go looking for some special racing oil ...unless you plan on racing your Cadillac

The current oils are required to have very low levels of ZDDP due to the legal issues around warantees on catalytic converters - even the racing or fancy oils claiming special additives...they don't publish how much ZDDP they exacly contain either.

[dadscad]

Amsoil has a whole line of products, suitable for the classic car owner.

David

[leedlast]

A race engine builder friend extensively researched this and recommended Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil for my '54.  This oil is intended for motorcycles which do not have catalytic converters, hence, this oil has a ZDDP content high enough to protect flat tappet cams. Readily available at auto parts stores, no mixing and guessing.

Best,
Ed Leed
CLC #26541

[Jon S]

This whole thing about removing the ZDDP to prevent catalytic converter damage (not that our older cars have them) is a bunch of bunk.  Most newer cars do not burn any oil, so the chances of ZDDP damaging a CAT is negligible.  No different than when the EPA removed lead from the gas due to brain damage to the inner City kids.  Think they are any smarter today?

[dadscad]

This whole thing about removing the ZDDP to prevent catalytic converter damage (not that our older cars have them) is a bunch of bunk.  Most newer cars do not burn any oil, so the chances of ZDDP damaging a CAT is negligible.  No different than when the EPA removed lead from the gas due to brain damage to the inner City kids.  Think they are any smarter today?

I'll drink to that!!     Most of the regulations we're being saddled with are a bunch of "bunk"

My 15 year old truck with 277K & the wife's 10 year old SUV with 165K don't use a drop of oil between changes.

David