How my experience with a paint and custom shop went horribly wrong

[Sean Roe]

This went terribly wrong. Story link and "before" car pictures of the 1959 Series 62 cars attached.
I vetted the shop out before doing business, but didn't find anything negative. I chose poorly.
The flat top was going in for needed floor board rust repair and repaint, while the coupe was going to get leather interior, rechrome, Air conditioning, dash recover, disc brakes, and paint (mild custom modifications in my book). Now I have piles of parts and cars that don't run.


http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article51069450.html

[autoluke]

Did the name "Slick" give you a clue ?

[chrisntam]

Sorry to hear of your issues, glad you got your cars back.

I watched that show and wondered why, if the guy was that good, would he be opening new shops?

Too bad there are people like that in this world.

[Sean Roe]

Thanks.
I wish I could tell you I could've seen the future based on the name, but equally, he had the show airing on the Discovery Channel and had been on some other shows with the garage as well. Who would risk screwing up that opportunity with some simple restoration and custom work? It was busy shop with about 6 guys working on cars in various stages when I was there a year ago. There were no Consumer Services complaints or bad reviews. I could only find where one employee said he didn't get his full pay.
Again, I chose poorly and at this point, the value is in informing others of similar risk.

[chrisntam]

And his web site is still up.

[Scot Minesinger]

Sorry to see this.  Let us hope that there is some justice for you, the other car owners, the businesses that did not get paid, and the animals that died in the garage.

There is no shop I really trust.  One of my friends dropped off a Caddy, like three years ago I think and 12 hours of work has been completed, although he has paid nothing and received at least nice storage.

The problems between honest shops and honest customers is that much of the time to do the job right, as those of us who work on our own cars know, it takes always more time than you think.  Some of that time is in the follow up and testing.  When I replaced my body to frame bushings, basically if the original body nut the bolt was crewed into had to be replaced then, only way it would not unscrew is if it was a castle nut with a pin thru it.  Took many miles and attempts to realize double nuts, and nylon nuts were of no use.  When you look at the time it takes, no one is willing (or very few) to pay the price.  Further, shops often take on multiple makes, models and years and getting them authentic is very difficult.

Lesson learned, (sorry I know hind sight is 20/20):

1.  One car in a shop at a time
2.  Only plentiful testimonials from previous customers who you know understand what is a good restoration or repairs is one of many vital components of a proven shop.
3.  Only pay for work as it is completed.  No 50% advance deposits. 
4.  Talk to the mechanic who is actually going to turn the wrenches on your car.  Often the owner is a PR charismatic business manager.  Ask this person their experience, to see some of their work, and so on - get to know them.
5.  During the work, check on the car progress very frequently and make it very pleasant for them.  You don't want them running away if they see you first.
6.  TV shows are entertainment, not an endorsement of a good shop.

Yes that is why I slowly do everything I can myself on my own cars.

At least you got yours back and the story is not over yet.  Hope you shape the ending to a just one for all.

[jaxops]

Wow- you were lucky.  I had a similar experience in Norfolk, VA.  They were full of promises and great discussions....until I came by every couple of days to check in.  Yup, they didn't like that, as they were stealing parts off of cars (including mine) to use on one closer to completion.  One of the owners actually told me he lost my original service manual when his house burned down.   

Like sharks, they pull stakes and move to another hunting ground to destroy people's dreams and take their $$!

I was lucky too that I got it out of there before they were shut down and over to a shop that knocked it out of the park in 9 months.

[Dave Shepherd]

A binding written contract with payment and completion terms could help somewhat.

[Sean Roe]

Hi Dave,
We got that and thankfully were able to file suit for breach of contract (waiting for him to be served).
The police and the newspaper have had several (5+) more people come out of the woodwork since my story broke the news yesterday.
There's another fellow with a '57 Cadillac and I saw a couple more on the property, but don't know who they belong to.
What a nightmare situation to go through, with any shop.
I know though, one day this will be in the past.
I won't let them spoil my joy of these cars.

[Tito Sobrinho]

The owners should be prosecuted for what the did to your antique cars and others in their "restoration garage".

[Sean Roe]

Other customers and former employees of theirs continue to contact me.
I've been stunned how quiet most people were about their experiences prior to me bringing my cars in.
But, the business seems to have a way to quench negative comments and reviews on the internet, which didn't help when vetting them out.
The latest story is linked below, with more to follow I'm sure.

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article51390465.html

[Jon S]

Disgusting!  You have to be so careful with everything today!

[Scot Minesinger]

The penalties for robbing people without harming the victims have become way too lax.  Since nonviolent thieves are generally less damaged than violent criminals, hard labor for years should be part of the punishment and maybe we can reduce construction costs of public roads. 

[chrisntam]

'64 mustang sedan?

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Wow, you acted just in time.
I wonder.......... Is there some sort of bond we could make shops take out in case of something like this?

Scot, I agree with you. We have become too 'civilized' of a society. It seems like the person in the wrong has way too many rights--------- but that is a whole other topic.
Jeff

[Scot Minesinger]

Jeff,

Making a claim on a bond, is to me who has made them in the past, like trying to get blood from a stone.  It is a very sleazy world in bonds in my experience and claims are evaded with insane defenses.  Basically you have to take legal action on a bond to even get an offer for a fraction of the claim.

The only way is to carefully evaluate a restoration place and talk to the workers/body mechanics/mechanics that will be directly wrenching on your car.

If a restoration shop is good, there will be a waiting period usually, and if they offer a bond run.  If they are offended about a bond that may be a good sign.

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Sean,
With all due respects, what was it that brought you to think that this shop was capable of doing what you anticipated?  A 50% deposit would be a clue to me that the shop was financially near insolvency, and needed my money to operate.  "one employee that did not get paid" should have been enough of a red flag for caution.
I assume you are not now financially destitute, so you might just consider this a learning process, and before you turn ANY crafts person loose, be it automotive, plumber, air conditioning, carpenter, etc., you see a representative sample of their work and actually talk to a few of their satisfied customers.
In most states, any licensed business has to post a bond with the state in order to business.  Checking for the status of their bond will help inform you as to their stability.  Performance bonds are specifically intended to insure the contractor finish the project, and are typically used in construction, not on small projects such as automotive refinishing, although I would guess they might be available.  Costs of the bonds usually are a percentage of the total contract price, and "contract" is the key word. It sounds like you had a verbal agreement that legally is not worth the air it is written on.  An actual legal written contract, executed by attorneys is typically required for any legal recourse with trades people.
Greg Surfas

[55 cadi]

I agree with what Greg has said.

Also for all home remodel or build the most that can be asked for before starting work is 10% of the cost of work.

This is for California and maybe other states, I don't know but for home 10% down is the most they can ask for, if they can't start with that amount that tells you they don't have any money! and trying to do something illegal asking for more! at least in California! May be the same in other states.

[Bobby B]

Also for all home remodel or build the most that can be asked for before starting work is 10% of the cost of work.

This is for California and maybe other states, I don't know but for home 10% down is the most they can ask for, if they can't start with that amount that tells you they don't have any money! and trying to do something illegal asking for more! at least in California! May be the same in other states.

Good luck finding any Skilled Tradesman/ Licensed Contractor with 10% down….Licensed contractor for 26 years. It's usually a 1/3 down to cover the cost of your materials ( which by the way, have skyrocketed so most of the time it doesn't even cover them), 1/3 after Rough-in inspection, and 1/3 upon completion of the job and Final inspection. Could also go 50/50 or 50/25/25, depending on the cost ratio of Materials vs.Labor. NO Contractor in there right mind is going to start a job with 10% down. Reality check here. I've also been burned a few times. It's a 2-way street you know……
           Bobby

[Scot Minesinger]

Bobby,

Yes I hear you and although the 10% max down in CA was designed to protect the consumer, it likely created a slight increase in prices to account for shifting the cost of cash management/borrowing onto the contractor instead of the consumer.  I'm sure that the contractors figured out a solution, such as a 50% payment when 5% completed or something like that.  The way I work is that a contractor can get their "down payment" the day they start the job (sometimes there are extenuating circumstances) - none of this big deposit see you in two month's business. 

I used to work for contractors and it is terrible.  Now I'm an engineer designing the work, where my only cost is really insurance, paper and etc., with no supplies, vendors, or subcontractors to pay-plus I'm at the very beginning of the job when money is more plentiful.

If you have an honest service provider and a consumer who is willing to pay fairly for completed work, then the method of pay and contract are not that important.  You know what they say after you sign a contract; "hope that we do not have to pull this out of the drawer to reread".

The point is to really thoroughly research your service provider.  For Classic car vendors/service providers, only previously recommended entities from people I know understand cars gets an opportunity to be screened unless I'm a pioneer.  There are posts like this all the time, like a guy with a 76 Cadillac took  it in for a/c work and the garage told the CLC member "your car is done, take it to the dealer to have it programmed".  Modern garages are the worst especially in our area, usually doing much more harm than good. 

I stand by my original advice to talk to the person at the shop whose hands will actually be doing the work on your car.  You can find out a lot, if the shop has money troubles, work ethic, attention to detail, attitude and etc.