1968 Eldorado 472 oil pan gasket and freeze plugs replacement - engine overhaul

[Cadman-iac]

  Hey Lars,

 I was thinking about your pulley problem and it dawned on me that you could use a pulley set from a 425 engine.  They didn't use a smog pump on those.
 The only problem is that the A/C power steering belt is just a single belt.
 They switched to just one because of the HEI distributor, to gain clearance.
 What you would have to do is to change the power steering pump pulley, and the A/C compressor pulley and probably the hub,to use just the one belt and the 425 crank pulley. A lot of work, for sure!


 But here's what I was thinking. Since you are talking about taking your original crank pulley apart, do that, remove the smog pump drive pulley from the rest of the pulley.
 If you can locate a 425 crank pulley, then you can remove the front groove that drives the alternator and fan.
 Take that part only and weld it to your original pulley, making your new set-up that eliminates the smog pump.

 The 425 was used from 1977 to 1979.

 There was a 368 that was used in 1980 and 81, but I don't know what those had for pulleys and smog pumps.

 But if you can't get that smog pump modification to work, the 425 gives you 3 more years of cars to look for parts.
 Just another idea in case you wanted to think about it.

.Rick

[IcebearLars]

Cleaned the heads today and I am wondering if I need to change these plugs in the heads while they are off?



 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

If they are bad, I would be replacing them, and if you are not sure, they are easier to replace off the engine than on.

Actually, I have never seen any of these plugs rust, as against the ones in the Block, and whenever I change them, I replace with Brass.   

The odd thing about the factory-installed plugs are steel, but take a long time to rust, whereas the steel replacements don't seem to take very long to rust.

Maybe that the ones in the Cylinder Heads don't rust is that they are always reaching correct operating temperature than the lower ones.

Bruce.

[IcebearLars]

Hey Lars,

 I was thinking about your pulley problem and it dawned on me that you could use a pulley set from a 425 engine.  They didn't use a smog pump on those.
...

Thanks Rick, will keep an eye on the 425 pulleys as well👍👍👍

If they are bad, I would be replacing them, and if you are not sure, they are easier to replace off the engine than on.
...

Thanks Bruce, agreed - better off than on  .
Have bought a set of expansion/freeze plugs (Sealed Power 381-8004) but don't think the ones for the heads are included - couldn't find any specs in the shop manual about them - has someone the specs so that I can get the brass ones (source appreciated) and change them?

Cheers

Lars 

[IcebearLars]

Contacted CaddyDaddy but unfortunately they can't help me with the cylinder head plugs - so need urgent help here finding them

[Roger Zimmermann]

Over the years, I restored 3 cars: two 1956 models and one from 1957. Never replaced the plugs in heads, never had an issue.

[Daryl Chesterman]

Use a caliper to measure the diameter of the holes that the expansion plugs are in.  Then, try to see if you can find them by measurement.  Just be sure to scrape out the rust, dried oil, etc. to be sure you are getting a true measurement of the exact diameter.  USA Parts might have them.  They have a listing under "Freeze Plugs" on page 27 of their catalog:

     http://www.usapartssupply.com/uploads/USA%20PARTS%201949%20-1970%20Cadillac%20Catalog.pdf

Once you get a measurement, it would be worth a call to them.

Dorman Products also has quite a selection by size and style of plug.

     https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?type=keyword&origin=keyword&q=Freeze+Plug

Daryl Chesterman

[IcebearLars]

Since the parts sellers I contacted either don't have the plugs or don't answer my inquiry I decided not to change them.

It is too hot of a sourcing issue if I can't figure out quickly where to get them.

Yesterday I stripped the engine apart - no significant wear at the camshaft, piston rod and crankshaft bearing. Looks all pretty smooth to me so I will throw new bearings in and put the thing together again.

[IcebearLars]

Got as well all the expansion plugs out of the block and compared them to my new set. So far so good - can plug and the two threaded plugs close to it, 3 plugs on each side but what are the little ones good for? Are the going in the middle of the block in the oil gallery where the lifters sit or did I oversee them belonging somewhere outside of the block?

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

By the way, I think you will find that the plugs in the heads are the flat dish type which are totally different to the block plugs.

The Screw plugs are for the oil galleries, and the small cup plugs could be for the ends of the heads at the AIR ports?

Bruce.

[35-709]

"--- and the small cup plugs could be for the ends of the heads at the AIR ports?"

That's what they look like to me also.

[IcebearLars]

Tried the small plugs in the heads already but the AIR ports in the heads are bigger - so they are probably for the oil gallery

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Check up front of the block near the Cam end, and there could be needed there.

Bruce.

[IcebearLars]

Cleaned the heads today and I am wondering if I need to change these plugs in the heads while they are off?



 

Folks,

got response from Chris @ Cad Company about the plugs in the heads mentioned in my earlier post - but like always there is a but:
Chris mentioned that there should only be 3 plugs per head (?).
He mentioned that 2 of them are these disc style ones in their shop and are the ones I marked in my picture and the other ones (2 per engine) are these cup style ones in their shop.

Can't check it for the next 2 weeks because I am out of country but will check on my heads and the heads of the spare engine - will press the ones of the spare engine heads out to see what they look like and measure the hole they cover as well to have here some clarification for the community.

Searching for the disc style ones in 1 1/4" size I found this information about a source and about pressing the disc style plugs in - these will regarding the installation recommendation tab in that link end up flat - yiiihhhaaa!



   

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The way to get the old ones out is to put in a large self-tapping screw in the centre, and lever them out via the head of the screw.   But, you knew that didn't you.

Bruce.

[IcebearLars]

I read about this procedure - thanks - but think at least the ones on the long side can be reached through the hole in the head from the back (see my pics) -  will see how I get them out

[IcebearLars]

Back to the engine overhaul - got today all the parts I ordered and checked the camshaft bearings I bought.

Just to confirm - are all 5 camshaft bearings the same size in the 472? On all the engine build videos explaining how to un-/install the camshaft bearings (but about other engines - found none exactly about 472) I watched they have been different in size, but it looks like the set of Enginetech CC417 1216M, which is definitely for the 472, has 5 bearings of the same size?

Pls advise

[IcebearLars]

Found it in the shop manual - they are all the same and interchangeable bore to bore (1 to 5)

[scottsdaleaz]

Does this help?

[IcebearLars]

That helps in deed!
Thanks

Where did you get them?