Nice '70 Fleetwood going for some strong money on eBay.

[chrisntam]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-Fleetwood-/381753732905?forcerrptr=true&hash=item58e24baf29:g:I0sAAOSwi0RXxfqB&item=381753732905

$15k and the reserve is not met.  I'm stunned.  Seems a little pricey.  Scot is yet to acquire a Fleetwood...... 

[Bobby B]

It's a nice looking ride in pictures. If nothing else, it looks like it was well taken care of. The pattern on the seats is sharp.......
                                                                                                                                                                   Bobby

[jaiello21]

I can't speak to what the seller has the reserve at however look at their ad on Hemmings.... 

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/cadillac/fleetwood/1869171.html

$30k for any '69/'70 Fleetwood is outrageous money let alone a blue on black example with a repaint! This dealer has notoriously outrageous prices, as exemplified by this 1970 Fleetwood. If it were a triple black, all original car I could see the price being much more justified, however this dealer is dreaming at $30k!

[Bobby B]

Jared,
I guess he came to his senses and realized that 30K is over-the-top. That's why t's now at a more realistic 15K. Probably tired of looking at it.
  Bobby

[jaiello21]

Jared,
I guess he came to his senses and realized that 30K is over-the-top. That's why t's now at a more realistic 15K. Probably tired of looking at it.
  Bobby

Bobby,

If he were at $15k I don't think that would be very unrealistic. However, the reserve is still not met at $15,300 which begs the question... What is the reserve? I have a feeling it is in the low to mid-twenties!

Jared

[jagbuxx #12944]

Looks good in pictures but at that price expect perfection. Missing hood emblem, front fender winged crests, Fleetwood lettering on front fender, deVille rear bumper back up lamp trim plates. Engine not correct shade of blue. The interior sure looks preserved however. My 1st Cadillac was a '70'Fleetwood, black with beige leather. A genuine 39,000 mile Beverly Hills car. Kept it for a few years then sold it to get my first Corvette. It was a grand driving car.

[chrisntam]

I see no options except a/c & tilt wheel, though the a/c may be standard on Fleetwood.  Seller says controlled dif, who knows.  Shouldn't there be a Fleetwood insignia on the right side of the bumper?

If my wife would let me, and if I had room for a large care, I'd be a buyer @ $8k to $9k, but it wouldn't fit in todays parking spaces.

[76eldo]

It's not very hard for people to get their friends to bump the bids on a car to get it closer to the reserve.

The car is already way above what I would value it at, and the fact that it's a repaint could mean anything.

See what happens when the auction ends.

Brian

[chrisntam]

so you saying bids are meaningless, but it is meaningful when money is actually exchanged?

As Brian says, we'll see....

I'm out at $9k.

[76eldo]

On a car auction on ebay, the bid amounts really mean nothing until the car meets the reserve.  You can get two or three people with reasonable feedback numbers to bid it up to just under the reserve.  The scheme is that some rube will come along, see that people are fighting over this great deal, and want to get in on it.

I am sure it works sometimes, and maybe this car and the bids are legit, but it seems way overpriced to me.  If it was an original paint time capsule car then the price can skyrocket, but this in not that.

Brian

[Dan LeBlanc]

You're very correct Chris - it's all speculation until money changes hands. 

[jdemerson]

It's a very beautiful car, at least in the photos. And just 17,000 miles. There has been sentiment expressed in this message board that the 1970 with the 472 and the TH400 Turbo Hydramatic is one on the most desirable models from the 60s and 70s era. What would be the cost of getting and adding the missing trim items mentioned above? I'd note that almost 239,000 1970s were made, and 17,300 of these were Fleetwood Broughams. So parts may not be as hard to get as for other desirable models from the 60s (just speculation here).

It's too bad that it isn't the original paint. Can anyone comment on this statement in the description:
The body, powertrain and interior are 100% original, with one paint re-spray on the body, due to Cadillac experiencing a problem with formulation on their #29 blue.

This is a Brougham, and that model came standard with very nice equipment (e.g., carpeted footrests, adjustable reading lights). Assuming it has never been in an accident and that the repaint is top quality, it seems a good buy at $15,300 with that mileage.

John Emerson
1952 Cadillac 6219X

[Scot Minesinger]

It would be great to add a 1970 Fleetwood to my 1970 Cadillac collection, but at 3 I'm good, and may even sell one of them.  For my purposes, 2 or 3 is just about right.  Maybe will change my mind later.

Glad to see 1970 Cadillacs are going up in price, as they are very nice driving cars.  Like contributors to this thread noticed front, side and even rear trim items are missing and it was repainted.  Obviously the undercarriage has been sprayed too.  Classic car dealers who do this kind of work are very conscious of the cost of prep work.  It seems unlikely it would be profitable to properly prepare the undercarriage to accept black paint (removal of grease, scrape loos paint and etc.  It was certainly less costly to eliminate all the trim items too for the re-paint.  The exterior cosmetics are in question and as always you need to see the car.

On bidding for e-bay after trying to sell two cars on e-bay (recently posted back in May or June of 2016), the bidding is beyond meaningless.  There are a bunch of 12 year olds bidding for sport with no intention of paying.  Then friends of the seller with not intention of buying also bid is my experience.  If I was interested in an e-bay car, I would go see it and put my bid in within the last minutes as in the past.  I never take the 2nd chance offer for these reasons.

The way I sell a car on e-bay is to say in the description, all bids where you did not come and see the car will be cancelled.

To fix this e-bay should make any bidder on a car pay $100 that will be refunded if they are not the high bidder.  The $100 of the high bidder will automatically go to seller and credited against the cost of the car.  The seller can refund it if the car does bid high enough - or something like that so scam bidders with no intention of paying at the end suffer a cost to play their game.

[cadillac ken]

I smell fraudulent bidding. Two of the big bidders have no other history with any other sellers in the past 30 days.  100% with this seller.  Anymore I always check this.

I wasn't born yesterday.  This kind of stuff is what makes people think the market is stronger than it is and has turned me sour on e-bay.  I've had guys standing right in front of me on their cell phone telling their buddies to "bid it up, let's see if we can't get it over the reserve".  It was a 450 Mercedes.

Plenty of ways to game the system.  And folks think it's all just fine to do so.  Buyer beware. 

[Scot Minesinger]

John,

To answer your questions:

1.  Never heard of "#29 blue formulation problem" at Cadillac for 1970, this certainly would have come up before, and I doubt it is true.

2.  The missing trim items would be surprising expensive, as the individual "Fleetwood" letters each require their own hole to mount and fender would have to be carefully drilled to do it right - very expensive labor.  Same with front fenders, holes have to be drilled on leading edge of fender.  The rear bumper has to come off the car to install the Fleetwood aluminum bumper fillers.  The cost of the trim in good shape also is expensive.  Those rear bumper fillers are going to be $300 minimum, plus it has to be painted same color as body.  Guessing this would actually cost way over $1,000 maybe $2,000 to a job that is commensurate with a pristine 17k miles original car.  Frankly the paint job is unlikely to be that great.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Repainted it is, but it the quality of paint appears to have been cost-no-object which could easily have run to $10K alone.

Since ALL Fleetwood identification trim items are absent, I strongly suspect it was personal decision on the part of the owner, but a shame nonetheless it had not been reinstalled given the overall quality of the vehicle.

Given what ~ $15 buys today, the overall worthy condition of the car, the fact that a substantial portion of the bidding audience is unfamiliar with all particular details of many vintage cars OR care little even if they did - there is every possibility the bidding is genuine from where I stand.

69/70 Fleetwoods in condition such as this car few and far between and $15K would not BEGIN to scrape the surface of the cost to restore one either.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

FTR - Air conditioning did not become standard equipment until January 1, 1974 however, air did become standard on Series 75 only - beginning in the 1966 model year.

Thanks.

[Greg Powers]

The one item no one has mentioned is the vacuum canister which should be suspended from the cross bar on the driver side of the engine. Rear air ride was standard on the 1970 Fleetwood Brougham. It looks as though it has been replaced with some sort of valve stem, possibly to inflated rear shocks () I have looked at other cars from this seller and they are always priced at the super high end of the scale. I would never trust a 17,000 mile car with a repaint and numerous exterior trim items missing and incorrect bumper. As has been mentioned several times previously, E-bay money is just "monopoly money"  until the car is delivered and the check is in the bank. I own a black on black 1970 Fleetwood Brougham with the gray full fabric interior with 39,000 miles and as much as I would like to think that it's value was $20,000, I don't think the market is there yet.

[wrefakis]

number 29 formulation problem and you dignify this seller with any consideration that any thing he states about the car could be true?

the paint code 29 problem was after 45 or so years and throw in some rust,  dents,  use, whatever it may have lost a bit of its sheen

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

No apparent rust bubbling under the roof is a good sign. I've seen many otherwise near-mint originals where this is not the case.

Air "suspension" items removed and substituted with regular manual air shocks is stated in presentation.

Why the car was repainted is anybody's guess and GM lacquers of the era were notorious for going bad - especially metallics - even on the finest originals with very low mileage.  That a near-50 year car needed a refinish is really no surprise - even if it only spent several cumulative years outside.

Seller's feedback rating is enviable and comments left by buyers are overwhelmingly positive. If there's evidence to support the seller is not above board, I don't see it.