What will we do when all the old shops, close up shop?

[Dan LeBlanc]

I agree with Dochawk.  Fuel will be the thing that cuts us off from driving older cars.  I am seriously thinking about giving up my 1997 Town Car, whose electronics are starting to wear out, for a 1979 Lincoln....but what about the gasoline?  Would I even be able to drive it in another few years?  I sure don't want a $50k car payment, so new cars are out for me.

Do yourself a favour and go at least 1978 so you can get a 460!

[bcroe]

The engines needing high octane leaded gas (like my 62) have been
in trouble.  But anything 77 or later will run on the crap unleaded
now sold, gasoline is not going away. 

The problem is going to be failing electronics, which are difficult to
troubleshoot and soon impossible to replace.  And don't expect the
rare ones on the shelf to be fine, age will be killing them almost as
much as those in the field.  Bruce Roe

[67_Eldo]

The engines needing high octane leaded gas (like my 62) have been
in trouble.

Actually, the gas situation may improve for older, high-compression cars.

The auto-manufacturing lobby is pushing for higher-grade gas in the US. If we have higher-quality gas in the European tradition, engines can be run more efficiently.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180417/BLOG06/180419780/the-octane-game-auto-industry-lobbies-for-95-as-new-regular

[35-709]

"The problem is going to be failing electronics, which are difficult to
troubleshoot and soon impossible to replace.  And don't expect the
rare ones on the shelf to be fine, age will be killing them almost as
much as those in the field.  Bruce Roe"

Agree 100%.

[Scot Minesinger]

Bruce is right - failing electronics will be an issue.  Plus of course plastic parts.  My 1970 Cadillacs with none of that become more appealing every day.

Only 2% of the cars made this year are electric, and some 10 or 20 million (whatever number - huge!) cars manufactured worldwide are fossil fuel fired.  It is understood that in China and India where pollution is a huge problem, electric cars will really be on the rise.  However, the average car is 12 years old or so.  Based on current production and how long people keep cars, I'm seeing no problem with gasoline powered cars for another 20 years or so.  Same with self driving cars.  Of course probably in 30 years gasoline may be hard to come by and cars that people could drive may be outlawed, but then I will be almost 90 and probably better off in a self driving car. 

If gasoline is outlawed soon or before I'm ready to stop driving them, I will convert my Cadillacs to electric.

Things change.

[wrench]

This forum is basically the equivalent of an 'expert system', so mechanics in the future will search it for answers and still wont be able to fix anything on an old car.

Most can't or won't touch them now, so the future will just be less and less, not because there will be less mechanics or less shops, it will be because there will be less expertise.

I could go into a long dissertation about why, but the bottom line is that there will be 'no gurus' in the future, just seekers of knowledge.

I have been to the mountain and talked to them and they told me they aren't making human gurus anymore.

Only clueless idiots guided by their AI avatars.

Sorry.

[Lexi]

This forum is basically the equivalent of an 'expert system', so mechanics in the future will search it for answers and still wont be able to fix anything on an old car.

Most can't or won't touch them now, so the future will just be less and less, not because there will be less mechanics or less shops, it will be because there will be less expertise.

I could go into a long dissertation about why, but the bottom line is that there will be 'no gurus' in the future, just seekers of knowledge.

I have been to the mountain and talked to them and they told me they aren't making human gurus anymore.

Only clueless idiots guided by their AI avatars.

Sorry.

My neighbor works at a local large auto dealership as a mechanic. He told me that assuming the shop would even look at my car, (which it would not), if it were to roll in for repairs all the mechanics would run. No one would want to work on it. Clay/Lexi

[z3skybolt]

Yes.

Upon purchasing our 1940 Lasalle I had little doubt that the local auto repair/tire/brake/muffler shop with which I had purchased all my tires/mufflers and auto repairs for 35 years would work on it.

Despite having receipts for over $130,000.00 spent at their shop and having known their chief mechanic since he was 18 years of age....the mechanic refused.  Danny is 55 years of age and a brilliant mechanic. But he told me that he "doesn't know old cars" and he won't touch them.

So I set about checking with all the local shops in our area. No one would work on it! Finally I found a garage some 20 miles away, owned by a 70 year, old who had operated his business since 1972.  Ted acknowledged that he had never worked on a vehicle of the LaSalle vintage but found it not far different from cars of the 50s and 60s.

He has since removed the engine for overhaul, reinstalled it, replaced a rear end seal(which he machined himself), tuned it up, rebuilt the carburetor and performed numerous maintenance items.  Ted just sold his shop but is staying on as an advisor for a few years. The 45 year old who bought the shop has worked for Ted several years.....learning many "old school" techniques and is willing to continue maintaining my LaSalle once Ted retires for good.

So there is a bit of hope here.

Bob

[David Greenburg]

Interesting thread.  My concern is that there are fewer and fewer people willing and able to do the work I can’t or don’t want to do.  The older I get, the less inclined I am to spend weekends rolling around underneath my cars. I have two mechanical gurus.  One runs a shop that works on only pre-‘79 American Cars, while the other works on pretty much anything, but has an affinity for older cars, and usually has something older and more obscure than mine in his shop.  But both are similar vintage as me (late 50’s-early ‘60’s), and are sole proprietors.  So when they hang up their ratchets, that will be it.

[67_Eldo]

There are a few schools teaching "Automotive Restoration." There are also museum mechanics whose job it is to work on old cars. So just as in blacksmithing, there will always be a few folks scattered around the country who will retain the knowledge. If all else fails, just go beg Jay Leno for some expertise!

Of course, the expense of old car repair will continue to rise. You'll be able to get anything you want ... if you can pay for it.

Another factor that bodes well (slightly) for the older-car universe is the resto-mod phenomenon. You can build an entire 1957 Chevy from new parts these days. These new "old" cars may feature technologies -- disc brakes, fuel injection, etc. -- that weren't available from GM in 1957, but some residual halo of how the cars originally worked should pique the curiosities of a few of those involved in the resto-mod/hot-rod scene.

BTW, my "old" car focus generally poops out in 1970. Obviously GM kept trying to build 1970-vintage technology -- in progressively cheaper and cheaper ways -- until the 1980s. Many lessons learned in 1970 were still valid in 1980 ... to the detriment of buyers in the late 70s and on. Essentially, the end of the Bill Mitchell era at GM was the end of interesting American cars. The cause and effect isn't really that simple, but that's generally (so to speak) the way it worked out.

So Bruce Roe is right: The electrical pieces on those 80 and newer vintage cars will be the biggest roadblock to keeping them running. There will always be workarounds of course: splice in an Arduino-powered this or a Raspberry-Pi-driven that to simulate some sensor or computer. But then you're back to finding people with the expertise who are willing to do the technical archaeology for a reasonable price.

Hey. Maybe Cuba's financial future is in the vintage-auto-salvation business? They've got the expertise! :-)

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

What will we do when all the old shops, close up shop?

The simple answer is that if there is money to be made in a service there will be someone who will do it.  Take something like  a Duesenberg.  Who fixes and works on them? Very high dollar specialists with the ability to fabricate parts as required.
When Rock Auto quits carrying the parts for our cars they will fall into the realm of "exotic". Read that very expensive, and the audience for ownership will decline exponentially.
My question is, why worry about that? If no one out there has noticed, we are aging about as fast as our cars and the younger generations have far less interest in ANY automobile related hobbys.
Enjoy today. Tomorrow will come when it does.
Greg Surfas

[Lexi]

Yet another depressing story. Six years ago when I bought my current old car, for convenience I asked my local oil change shop if they would do the first oil change and chassis lubrication. I had been a customer there for about 15 years or more. "No", was the immediate answer! The shop did not even want to do an oil change. Done oil changes and grease jobs ever since on my own. Clay/Lexi

[bcroe]

Yet another depressing story. Six years ago when I bought my current old car, for convenience I asked my local oil change shop if they would do the first oil change and chassis lubrication. "No", was the immediate answer! Clay/Lexi

Maybe not so depressing.  It was too inconvenient getting these things
done.  I was watching my 62 getting greased (late 60s) on a lift (21
fittings) and the so called mechanic was hitting them in a totally random
manner.  I had to keep pointing out those he missed.  Next garage sale I
bought a $3 grease gun which I still use today.  More convenient, faster,
far cheaper, and the job was done right.  Perhaps that was the beginning,
by 1985 I was doing my own trans overhauls and often upgrades.  Same
logic applied.  At this stage a decent garage and a lift help.  I do not
worry about finding a mechanic. 

I said long ago, keeping an old car on the road means spending a lot of
money and having a very good old time mechanic, or doing it yourself. 
Eventually only the latter may be an option.  Bruce Roe

[Lexi]

Yes, good point. It forces us to do our own repairs and maintenance and it eliminates much of the inconvenience you mentioned. It is bad news for those who are not inclined to turn a wrench though. Unless wealthy, I don't see how the average person can now own an old car and pay others to maintain it, unless it is truly a "turn key" vehicle. My personal opinion, as the owner of a classic car I am a caretaker of it until the next owner comes along. Doing my own work educates me about the vehicle and in those few instances when I needed a professional, I was able to intelligently discuss repairs with the mechanic. My car has been to a shop just 3 times in 6 years, (but up to me to source parts), though I have spent countless hours working on her. Time well spent in my opinion. If you are able bodied but have reservations about doing your own work, take the plunge and get better acquainted with your car. It will pay dividends plus you always have this amazing forum to turn to. Clay/Lexi

[59-in-pieces]

Our friend - THE mechanic - for over 30+ years sold his business because his electric analysis tools were outdated for electronic cars, coming in every day.
His apprentice bought the business to carry on "old school", and added new electronic tools for newer cars, and younger mechanic who knew how too use them.

In terms of shops for body work on old cars, the shops changed to doing more insurance work on newer cars, where they change fenders, hoods, trunk lids, and doors (no repairs) by spinning a couple of bolts and replacing the parts to focus on in-and-out to cut time and labor costs = more money for the shop.

It's a quick and dirty disposable world we live in these days.
No time for experience and/or skills to repair, only replace.
IMHO - SO SAD -

Have fun, for as long as you can,
Steve B.

[David Greenburg]

The tools are another issue.  Tried to buy a dwell tach recently?  Mine got damaged, and I figured I could just pick one up at a local parts store.  Not possible, although there is an interesting assortment on eBay.  But my Fall tune-ups will be delayed.

[67_Eldo]

Shed a spare-parts-and-repair tear for poor Uruguay, who is still using WWII-vintage, Cadillac-powered M24 Chaffee tanks!

https://youtu.be/PJXd8VSzslQ

[Lexi]

The tools are another issue.  Tried to buy a dwell tach recently?  Mine got damaged, and I figured I could just pick one up at a local parts store.  Not possible, although there is an interesting assortment on eBay.  But my Fall tune-ups will be delayed.

None of the big box automotive chains or even the larger independent auto supply shops carried tach/dwell meters up here either. I had to buy one online where there at least was a selection. These brick and mortar stores seem to have the same affliction that a lot of the repair shops have, you know, service only for quick in and out/routine jobs to maximize sales. Anything off the beaten path, well forget it. Clay/Lexi

[cadillac ken]

It's the costs.  Most everything comes down to follow the money. 

Most shops today know the cost and trouble it takes to work on our old iron.  The customers usually are aghast and simply cannot accept the reality.  Sure the customer may have a figure in his or her head, but of course that is only founded on what they are willing to pay.  And of course it has no relevance to what they will have to pay to achieve the repairs or restoration of their vehicle.

I truly believe if there was "money in it" there would be plenty of shops that would be willing to work on our old cars.

The mentality still is quite prevalent among classic old car owners:  "But that costs more than what the car is worth".  I would argue that that is the case in almost all instances from refrigerators to old cars.  It's simply the way it is nowadays.  Cost to repair your flat screen TV will most times cost more than a new one at Walmart and an ECU repair to your perfectly serviceable 12 year old Toyota will likely exceed the resale value. 

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

The answer is Very Clear what the future holds for male hobbies of old, as the face of America changes forever.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/baby-boomers-created-the-classic-car-marketand-could-crash-it-feature